kai
ragamuffin
oh i got you you are a Hamas supporter. you took the long way round they usually have an avatar with a terrorist on then change it to something nice when i catch on
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Why Israel killing palestinians everyday??
- Thread starter moegypt
- Start date
oh i got you you are a Hamas supporter. you took the long way round they usually have an avatar with a terrorist on then change it to something nice when i catch on
gnomon
Well-Known Member
This post is pure garbage. The intelligence level of those who despise Israel is really beginning to reveal their true colors.
rhys
Member
That's a good example of what I mean. Young children can't face the evil in themselves and therefore project it on others, who are 'bad', whereas they are 'good'. Quite a number of grown-ups aren't, if you see what I mean, and carry on this babyish silliness into adult life, and whole groups and cultures apparently never grow up at all - I'd quote journalists, zionists and Serbs, for a start. Gnomon knows nothing about me whatever, but because I do not support his beloved murder-gang my thoughts are automatically 'garbage', I 'despise' something called 'Israel' and, it seems, anyone who dislikes the Occupation baby-killers is, by definition, stupid. There is. briefly, no Israel' outside the Old Testament - just a lot of thieving gangsters torturing, starving and murdering the people they've robbed of their country, particularly their children (to terrorize the parents). This is a matter of evil belief, which can be changed if events help these self-righteously spiteful idiots to grow up: I do not 'despise' this evil occupation - I want it stopped before it kills any more people, and replaced by a non-racist, non-religious state. It is a bit sad when decency is considered to be a proof of stupidity - for what it's worth, I have a pretty high IQ - though I don't think such stuff is worth much myself.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
My question is this: why is it that because I want the general body of Palestinians to be able to live decently and enjoy the rights the every person should be able to I, and others who want the same thing, are automatically Hamas supporters and we hate Israel. I don't have to hate one group to want good for another. I'm not that shallow. All the Palestinians aren't Hamas. These are people we're discussing, but because you have no attachment to them they can be dismissed and killed, and no one blinks. I don't have to hate all Israelis just because I want the HUMAN BEINGS who just happen to be Palestinian to live like human beings and not like dogs. Worse than dogs actually, because there was more outrage over Michael Vick killing some dogs then there will ever be over the outright murder of infants in Gaza. So I guess I can logically conclude from that, that the lives of the dogs that Mr. Vick killed are worth more than the lives of innocent Gazans.
Calling anyone who questions and dislikes Israel's occupation and their tactics a terrorist supporter and a hater of Israel, is no different than someone saying that all those who support Israel are zionists. You all don't like that, but what's the difference? Name-calling is name-calling. I'm not interested in name calling. I'm interested in the rights of people being violated openly, and not a single solitary soul condemns it. Yet when anyone who supports that the Gazans enjoy equal human rights and equality, everyone else is looking for the constant condemnation of Hamas. When we don't write that Hamas is wrong in every other sentence, now all of a sudden we aren't being fair about it. Whatever. I condemn the killing of all innocents across the board. Other people condemn only the killing of Israeli citizens, and support as mere unimportant collateral damage the killing of Palestinian citizens.
I always thought of like property damage as collateral damage. Like if I'm going after a criminal and I have to ransack a house and tear up some walls, that's collateral damage. That just goes with the territory and in any case can be rebuilt and replaced. Lives cannot be replaced once taken. A human being dying wrongfully by the hands of others is not a collateral damage.
Calling anyone who questions and dislikes Israel's occupation and their tactics a terrorist supporter and a hater of Israel, is no different than someone saying that all those who support Israel are zionists. You all don't like that, but what's the difference? Name-calling is name-calling. I'm not interested in name calling. I'm interested in the rights of people being violated openly, and not a single solitary soul condemns it. Yet when anyone who supports that the Gazans enjoy equal human rights and equality, everyone else is looking for the constant condemnation of Hamas. When we don't write that Hamas is wrong in every other sentence, now all of a sudden we aren't being fair about it. Whatever. I condemn the killing of all innocents across the board. Other people condemn only the killing of Israeli citizens, and support as mere unimportant collateral damage the killing of Palestinian citizens.
I always thought of like property damage as collateral damage. Like if I'm going after a criminal and I have to ransack a house and tear up some walls, that's collateral damage. That just goes with the territory and in any case can be rebuilt and replaced. Lives cannot be replaced once taken. A human being dying wrongfully by the hands of others is not a collateral damage.
Smoke
Done here.
As long as you hate Israel's occupation of Palestine, and think that is the problem, that we must eliminate Israel and then things will be right for the Palestinians, you're helping to increase the suffering of the Palestinians. People who demand the destruction of Israel, as Hamas does and as several people on RF do, do not have the welfare of the Palestinians at heart. They are putting their own political and religious ideas ahead of the safety and freedom of the Palestinians. As such, I don't have any use for their crocodile tears over Palestinian suffering.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
Ahh no you don't MB. You don't get to make general statements about what I said. I never said eliminate Israel. I don't care if Israel gets a state or not. That doesn't bother me at all. They have as much right as anyone to make a state if they wish. I've got no problem to that. I do have a problem with how it got done though and how it's being maintained. I would have the same problem if the tables were turned and it was the Palestinians who were dominating Israeli's like that. There is a problem when the only way for me to get somewhere in the world, and have a state of my own for my people MUST involve the subjugation of another group of people. Getting my country shouldn't have to involve killing people or imposing my will on groups of indigenous people. If it does involve that by default, then I need to rethink my stance on getting my sovereign state. Is the maintenance of Israel actually worth the lives of more than a million people?
The second thing is I never called for the destruction of Israel. I did call for stopping the destruction of the Palestinians.
Smoke
Done here.
I didn't mean you, specifically. Hamas does call for the destruction of Israel, and several people on RF support Hamas and hail Yassin as a hero. As long as there are groups like Hamas, life for the Palestinians will be intolerable. It's the violent religious fanatics who are the problem, not the state of Israel. That goes for the Jewish settlers in the West Bank, too. People who put ideology and religion ahead of peace cannot be satisfied with peace, and until it's peace that people want, not victory, the suffering will never end.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
Okay I can definitely get on board with that. It's the terrorism on both sides that truly cause the problem. As long as they are at war with each other, then the innocents on both sides suffer. It's not only the Palestinian civilians who want peace, but Israeli civilians as well. What doesn't make the news, is when the Israeli's and Palestinians work together peacefully with demonstrations and things like that. It kinda makes me wonder what's up with that. Why not show that on TV? I found it on google and youtube videos that showed the two groups calling for peace and wanting to live together. They were addressing both the Israeli government and Hamas to stop making problems for them all. That's what I like to see. I wish we could get that broadcasted all over the news and the net.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
kai
ragamuffin
in answer to your post FVM people become acclimatised to violence it goes on so long that it no longer becomes news worthy , here in the UK someone would be killed in ulster and it would not be on the news here on the mainland .
Hamas exists for one reason only it exists with the sole aim of destroying Israel, so there can be no discussion no peace its against the Hamas charter , so the government of Gaza is at war with the state of Israel , hamas is funded and idealized by Arab neighbor states who have sworn to drive Israel into the sea they have tried and failed to do so and know full well that is impossible , so they fill the heads of young men in Gaza etc with dreams of martyrdom and give them hero status in order for them to fight for them.
if they were to lay down their arms tomorrow they would receive all the aid possible from the western world for the much needed hospitals schools etc etc , i believe America alone would supply enough aid to build a nation state let alone the EU, but what do their wealthy Arab brothers offerthem ? money for the families of martyrs. the Syrians the Iranians the Saudis they know they cannot destroy Israel but tell the teenagers of Gaza they they can.the Palestinians are the weapons of war for the Arab states to continue the fight they know they have lost.
I have no love for the tactics of Israel they are as brutal an opponent as only an old testament opponent can be there is no turn the other cheek they are strictly eye for an eye , they stand there simmering with anger as each rocket attack hits Israeli soil until they will take no more and strike back . Hamas knows this , Islamic Jihad Knows this yet on they go firing rockets at their enemy i have seen them acting like heroes bunches of kids with masks on setting up and firing their rockets . then people say "why are the Israelis killing the palestinians "
and yes the taking of a life is wrong be it Israeli or Palestinian, but i am afriad untill the guns stop firing the palestinians must live in a war zone
Hamas exists for one reason only it exists with the sole aim of destroying Israel, so there can be no discussion no peace its against the Hamas charter , so the government of Gaza is at war with the state of Israel , hamas is funded and idealized by Arab neighbor states who have sworn to drive Israel into the sea they have tried and failed to do so and know full well that is impossible , so they fill the heads of young men in Gaza etc with dreams of martyrdom and give them hero status in order for them to fight for them.
if they were to lay down their arms tomorrow they would receive all the aid possible from the western world for the much needed hospitals schools etc etc , i believe America alone would supply enough aid to build a nation state let alone the EU, but what do their wealthy Arab brothers offerthem ? money for the families of martyrs. the Syrians the Iranians the Saudis they know they cannot destroy Israel but tell the teenagers of Gaza they they can.the Palestinians are the weapons of war for the Arab states to continue the fight they know they have lost.
I have no love for the tactics of Israel they are as brutal an opponent as only an old testament opponent can be there is no turn the other cheek they are strictly eye for an eye , they stand there simmering with anger as each rocket attack hits Israeli soil until they will take no more and strike back . Hamas knows this , Islamic Jihad Knows this yet on they go firing rockets at their enemy i have seen them acting like heroes bunches of kids with masks on setting up and firing their rockets . then people say "why are the Israelis killing the palestinians "
and yes the taking of a life is wrong be it Israeli or Palestinian, but i am afriad untill the guns stop firing the palestinians must live in a war zone
vandervalley
Active Member
The easiest way for the palestinians to get back lost lands would be to stop the sucidal attacks on Israel and rebuild the economy. When the palestinians have a good economy everything they want (land whatever) will be on the table and negotiable. Too bad most palestinians don't recognise this fact and instead what they do is firing puny, useless rockets at israel and in return having their infrastructures destroyed by israel.
Peace and stability = good economy = lagre and strong army and well educated people which won't resort to stupidity of firing weeny rockets.
Peace and stability = good economy = lagre and strong army and well educated people which won't resort to stupidity of firing weeny rockets.
kai
ragamuffin
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Attack won't halt talks - Israel
PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT MAHMOUD ABBAS
A statement said: "The president condemned all attacks that target civilians, whether they are Palestinian or Israeli."
HAMAS SPOKESMAN FAWZI BARHOUM
"This is a normal response to all the Israel occupation, commission and aggression, and they [have] committed massacres inside the Gaza and West Bank - about 128 [people were] killed, 30 of them children and infants, people and elderly and [women]. So I find this is a normal response to all Israel's occupational crimes, and waging a war against the Palestinians."
Hamas describes this as normal,
PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT MAHMOUD ABBAS
A statement said: "The president condemned all attacks that target civilians, whether they are Palestinian or Israeli."
HAMAS SPOKESMAN FAWZI BARHOUM
"This is a normal response to all the Israel occupation, commission and aggression, and they [have] committed massacres inside the Gaza and West Bank - about 128 [people were] killed, 30 of them children and infants, people and elderly and [women]. So I find this is a normal response to all Israel's occupational crimes, and waging a war against the Palestinians."
Hamas describes this as normal,
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Yes, I suppose for someone who is compeltely stupid, this hypocritical whining would be convincing.
"O, the poor innocent Palestinians are being killed unjustly by Israelis (retaliating in a very restrained way for Palestinian terrorism)."
"O, the aggressive Isaelis are threatening the Palestinians again (for persistent terrorism)."
By the way, if the Arabs and their sympathizers get their way, and Israel is destroyed, we will simply see one religious state replaced with another, replacing Zionism with the Ummah. The Islamic states, for all their ancient progress, do not seem to me to be particularly inspiring (eg., Taliban in Afganistan, Pakistan, Iran, etc seem far worse than Israel).
moegypt
Active Member
Israel firstly must stop killing people and innocents... They kill kids... They kill women.
What if this killed person is your brother?? How you will take it easy?? and focus on Economy.
Israel dont need Peace... They want it from Nile to Furat... just dreams.
kai
ragamuffin
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
You know I was thinking of the economy vander. That would take their minds off the killing to focus on things that could permanently stop it, but there is a problem with that. Without freedom of movement, the ability to export and import goods, the inability to effectively run itself without infrastructure cripples any type of economy and makes it nearly impossible. Israel is in control of the borders, the airspace, and the waters, all food supplies, medical supplies, electricity, everything that matters that would give the Palestinians autonomy is in the hands and at the whim of Israel to do what it wishes. So anyone living in the Gaza Strip particularly are out of luck if they wish to run an honest business. They grow crops but they can not sell those crops when they are harvested, and in any case settlers are notorious for destroying a crop ready to be harvested.
Israel is doing all this in defense of itself, but does not care to find ways to differentiate between potential threats and people just looking to make a difference. Another aspect to this is that people refer to President Mahmoud Abbas as a moderate but he is just as guilty as hamas and Israel are for the suffering of the Gazans, because he ignores them and also does not offer any help to them financially.
It isn't impossible to tell the difference between a threat and people who just wish to conduct business honestly.
In short they cannot get an economy off the ground. So does anyone have any suggestions about who the Gazans can contact to help them to jumpstart an economy of their own? Rest assured that there are plenty of Gazans who do not support Hamas as well as there are those who do. The only thing is they are too busy trying to survive day to day to worry over what Hamas may or may not do next.
I have seen the finger pointing go on for pages now, but to date no one, including myself, have offered any practical way for these people to help themselves or receive real lasting help. No one has discussed a amicable way to provide both the Palestinians what they want and the Israeli's what they want. Both sides seem to have reached an impasse. Neither wants to give. Israel wants its state and the land no matter who they have to step on to get it. The Palestinians want them off the land altogether since being on it apparently means the Palestinians must be in a position of subservience.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
Also if Hamas is the no account terrorist group everyone believes them to be, wouldn't the ultimate solution be to help the Palestinians create an effective economy, therefore eliminating the need for a violent resistance? I mean think about it for a minute...... If Palestine becomes just as viable economically as Israel is, then Israel can't bully them, and Hamas becomes irrelevant. As it stands, the people probably don't say anything about Hamas because they feel they have nothing else to live for. Look where they are and how they exist. I'd feel pretty hopeless too. Hard to have hope when you are surrounded by death and destruction reigning down on you from every side.
So basically if the US is supposed to be the peaceful arbiter between them both, instead of funneling money in to Israel only to bolster its military might, perhaps collaborating with both Israel and President Mahmoud to give money to the Gaza too might make a difference. The terrorists will show themselves out, because you can bet you're bottom dollar that if some money gets int there those people are gonna eat and try to better themselves immediately. Once they get a taste of that, they won't want anyone to ruin that for them, and they'll come together against anything that jeopardized it. It would be even more ideal to ask Egypt to help that out, instead of asking them to assist Israel in Palestine ultimate destruction.
So basically if the US is supposed to be the peaceful arbiter between them both, instead of funneling money in to Israel only to bolster its military might, perhaps collaborating with both Israel and President Mahmoud to give money to the Gaza too might make a difference. The terrorists will show themselves out, because you can bet you're bottom dollar that if some money gets int there those people are gonna eat and try to better themselves immediately. Once they get a taste of that, they won't want anyone to ruin that for them, and they'll come together against anything that jeopardized it. It would be even more ideal to ask Egypt to help that out, instead of asking them to assist Israel in Palestine ultimate destruction.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
You know what, you might have a good point there about the neighboring Arab states doing that. I know for darn sure they aren't trying to help the Palestinians in ways that would matter. All of them are guilty for not helping their brothers, but it ain't about brotherhood, or Islam, or love, it's about doing what they wanna do and making a scapegoat out of the Palestinians. I am more angered and bitter of the Arabs, who just happen to be majority muslim, sit back and watch those people suffer. They don't extend any help at all to them in any meaningful way. They just watch and turn away so that it doesn't touch them. That to me, is way more brutal than any attack Israel can put together.
What it is, is that they aren't afraid of Israel they are afraid of the US. Without US funding and military aid, Israel is not so tough. But those surrounding states know that if they try to touch Israel, US will step in. It's called being a wuss, and you know that ain't the word I wanna use. Israel knows this which is why it feels free to do what it wants to do, because no one will stop them. Little do the Arab states know is they are next on the list anyway, so they might as well help the Palestinians. They'll be soon included in the axis of evil whether they wanna realize it or not.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
BTW Kai, this is getting scary for me. I don't know if it freaks you out or no, but we've actually agreed with each other, all over this hot button issue, a grand total of three times. WTH is going on here! Yeah......just don't post nothing else I agree with for at least a month.
I call freedom the right to be safe in your environment. To have that right you must respect your neighbors right to have the same.
How can anyone have freedom when there are human bombs walking in the marketplace?
Suicide bombing must stop. It is one of the most terrible acts a human being can do. I have never been to a suicide bombing before but I suspect it is pretty nasty. We only hear about the people who were physically killed or injured. We never hear about the ones mentally traumatized by being sprayed with human body parts and fluids. And with the indiscriminate nature of a suicide attack it is bound to effect anyone near no matter what their belief. They are going to have a lasting hate toward someone.
With the current popularity of martyrdom there is hate breeding all over the world, not just in a small crescent on the eastern shores of the the Mediterranean.