Why is universalism heresy?

[RedOne77]

Why is universalism considered a heresy today? Supposedly for the first few centuries of Christianity universalism was the norm. When Bishop Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresies" in 180 AD, it didn't mention universalism as a heresy and many think his writings support universalism. What happened that made it a heresy?

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

RedOne77

 

[Midnight Pete]

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell.

Oh? What gave you that idea?

 

[RedOne77]

Well, I grew up in a Christian culture, have many friends that are Christian, and I know several that don't believe in Hell. I know that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much, so from Religious beliefs of Americans about ghosts, Satan, Heaven, Hell, etc., only 85% of born again Christians believe Hell is a real place with 15% that say Hell is figurative. Born again Christians tend to be more conservative in general, and the more conservative you are the more likely you are to believe in a literal Hell. So I think it is safe to infer that more than 15% of Christians don't view Hell as literal. Than you have people that are universalists that may believe in a corrective punishment period for the unrighteous, yet many don't like to say that it is "Hell" because it simply is a separate doctrine from what most people consider Hell.

I suppose I should have said "several Christians" and not "many".

I'd still like to know the answer to my question if you or anyone else knows, thanks.

 

[sandandfoam]

It's only considered a heresy by Christians I disagree with

Afraid I don't know why they consider it a heresy. As an aside I came to Christianity because of so-called heresy. All the 'heretics' I've stumbled across have very interesting stuff to say.

 

[lunamoth]

Why is universalism considered a heresy today? Supposedly for the first few centuries of Christianity universalism was the norm. When Bishop Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresies" in 180 AD, it didn't mention universalism as a heresy and many think his writings support universalism. What happened that made it a heresy?

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

RedOne77

I don't know the answer, but one modern explanation I have heard is that universalism implies that we can take away God's choice, and another person's choice, in the matter of whether someone is united with God.

I lean heavily towards universalism and the idea that God wants us all and so eventually God will have us all. However, it makes sense to me that both God and the other person should make this choice, not me.

I guess this makes more sense if you hold the view, as I do, that heaven is closeness to God and hell is separation from God.

BTW, one quote I like is this: As Christians we must believe in hell. But we don't have to believe that anyone ends up there.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

J. C. Ryle (1816-1900) the first Anglican bishop of Liverpool famously remarked, "Disbelieve hell, and you unscrew, unsettle, and unpin everything in Scripture."

Without hell, what is the meaning of the crucifixion? What significance could the death of Jesus possibly have had if there was no eternal hell as the result of sin? Jesus is called Saviour, but that word implies that there is salvation from something beyond earthly existence.

The whole of Christianity is destroyed if hell is deemed extra-biblical.

 

[RedOne77]

I don't know the answer, but one modern explanation I have heard is that universalism implies that we can take away God's choice, and another person's choice, in the matter of whether someone is united with God.

I lean heavily towards universalism and the idea that God wants us all and so eventually God will have us all. However, it makes sense to me that both God and the other person should make this choice, not me.

I guess this makes more sense if you hold the view, as I do, that heaven is closeness to God and hell is separation from God.

BTW, one quote I like is this: As Christians we must believe in hell. But we don't have to believe that anyone ends up there.

I agree, it has to be a mutual choice by both God and the person. I myself am a universalist, but I do believe in a place where God will "punish" those not in Christ (although to label it "hell" is misleading). Although eventually all these people will learn about Christ and become part of Christ's family and enjoy all the benefits those in Christ do.

One idea I find very intriguing is a Hindu-like idea where because we all have free will, there is always a chance (giving the idea of a never ending cycle) that even when all are saved, eventually some or all will again reject God and fall from grace in need of salvation again.

 

[RedOne77]

It's only considered a heresy by Christians I disagree with

Afraid I don't know why they consider it a heresy. As an aside I came to Christianity because of so-called heresy. All the 'heretics' I've stumbled across have very interesting stuff to say.

I find it very interesting myself. As I said in the OP, the majority of early Christianity believed in universalism, and there is sort of a wave from conservative Christians (those of southern baptist and pentecostal backgrounds) that after looking into the original Greek become universalists. It seems that it became a heresy because of a Catholic doctrine, but I really don't know.

J. C. Ryle (1816-1900) the first Anglican bishop of Liverpool famously remarked, "Disbelieve hell, and you unscrew, unsettle, and unpin everything in Scripture."

Without hell, what is the meaning of the crucifixion? What significance could the death of Jesus possibly have had if there was no eternal hell as the result of sin? Jesus is called Saviour, but that word implies that there is salvation from something beyond earthly existence.

The whole of Christianity is destroyed if hell is deemed extra-biblical.

Interesting viewpoint. I would like to ask what is Hell, and is such compatible with a loving and just God? For example, eternal torture hardly seems just for a finite time of committing crimes. And likewise God is considered our father and we His children, I myself don't see how a loving father would torture their own children for eternity.

 

[Neophyte]

Universalism is complete heresy if you follow the teachings of the Bible for several reasons.

First reason - Hell must exist that or there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Second reason - Universalism teaches there are several ways to reach Heaven. Again, why did Jesus die then.

Third reason - Univeralism teaches the "all is one" idea. Islam and Christianity are not the same as Christianity...they contradict each other to much. Especially when it comes to whether Jesus is God or just a prophet. I am not saying there is not truth in both religions, I am just saying that this is a reason Christianity considers Universalism heresy.

 

[Storm]

I've started a debate thread about this: Is Hell Necessary To Christianity?

Hope to see you guys there!

 

[RedOne77]

Universalism is complete heresy if you follow the teachings of the Bible for several reasons.

First reason - Hell must exist that or there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Universalism doesn't intrinsically reject Hell. Some versions believe that those not in Christ go to [Hell] until they are purified. What universalism rejects is eternal torture and/or torture for the sake of torture.

Second reason - Universalism teaches there are several ways to reach Heaven. Again, why did Jesus die then.

Some versions yes, however much of Christian universalism (which is different than Unitarian Universalism, and the distinction must be made) believes that there is one path to Heaven, and all will eventually take that path which is Christ. From what I can tell that is what early Christianity believed.

Third reason - Univeralism teaches the "all is one" idea. Islam and Christianity are not the same as Christianity...they contradict each other to much. Especially when it comes to whether Jesus is God or just a prophet. I am not saying there is not truth in both religions, I am just saying that this is a reason Christianity considers Universalism heresy.

I should have probably specified that it is "Christian universalism" that I'm wondering why it is considered heresy, not Unitarian universalism as they flat-out reject Christ. Depending on whether or not a Christian universalist is inclusive or exclusive (note, some non-universalists are inclusive) will determine if they believe someone of a different faith can enter Heaven.

 

[Neophyte]

Universalism doesn't intrinsically reject Hell. Some versions believe that those not in Christ go to [Hell] until they are purified. What universalism rejects is eternal torture and/or torture for the sake of torture.



Some versions yes, however much of Christian universalism (which is different than Unitarian Universalism, and the distinction must be made) believes that there is one path to Heaven, and all will eventually take that path which is Christ. From what I can tell that is what early Christianity believed.



I should have probably specified that it is "Christian universalism" that I'm wondering why it is considered heresy, not Unitarian universalism as they flat-out reject Christ. Depending on whether or not a Christian universalist is inclusive or exclusive (note, some non-universalists are inclusive) will determine if they believe someone of a different faith can enter Heaven.

Yeah, I think we were talking about two different versions of Universitalism. Lesson learned...(I really was not aware of the Christian version to begin with.)

 

[Storm]

Point of interest: UUs don't "flat out reject Christ," we just leave it up to the indivdual.

 

[Neophyte]

Point of interest: UUs don't "flat out reject Christ," we just leave it up to the indivdual.

I understand but according to most Christian groups not accepting Christ is rejecting Him.

 

[Storm]

I understand but according to most Christian groups not accepting Christ is rejecting Him.

Yes, but some UUs are also Christian. They DO accept Him.

 

[Requia]

Universalism is complete heresy if you follow the teachings of the Bible for several reasons.

First reason - Hell must exist that or there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Second reason - Universalism teaches there are several ways to reach Heaven. Again, why did Jesus die then.

Third reason - Univeralism teaches the "all is one" idea. Islam and Christianity are not the same as Christianity...they contradict each other to much. Especially when it comes to whether Jesus is God or just a prophet. I am not saying there is not truth in both religions, I am just saying that this is a reason Christianity considers Universalism heresy.

Nothing here has anything to do with universalism.

 

[Katzpur]

BTW, one quote I like is this: As Christians we must believe in hell. But we don't have to believe that anyone ends up there.

I would add that we must believe in hell. We can even believe that there are those who will serve time there. What we don't have to believe is that it is necessarily a permanent destination.

 

[Katzpur]

Without hell, what is the meaning of the crucifixion? What significance could the death of Jesus possibly have had if there was no eternal hell as the result of sin? Jesus is called Saviour, but that word implies that there is salvation from something beyond earthly existence.

Why must Hell be eternal to make Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice significant? He made it possible for us to be reconciled to God without having to bear the burden of punishment for our sins. Through faith in Him and through repentence, we can be forgiven of our trespasses. Those who accept this gift will rise in the First Resurrection, to be granted entrance to Heaven at that time. The unrepentant wicked, on the other hand, will not be condemned to Hell for eternity but, because they were unwilling to accept His sacrifice on their behalf will be made to suffer in Hell for the duration of His millennial reign, after which time they, too, will be admitted into Heaven, though not to receive of the fullness of the glory which they might have received had they been faithful and obedient. Remember, the Bible does say that ultimately every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. A limited punishment for a sinful life is entirely just; an eternal punishment, however, is not something a loving Father in Heaven would impose upon anyone.

 

[Katzpur]

Universalism doesn't intrinsically reject Hell. Some versions believe that those not in Christ go to [Hell] until they are purified. What universalism rejects is eternal torture and/or torture for the sake of torture.

Mormonism is the only Christian denomination I am aware of which believes pretty much what you have said. I know of individual Christians who believe this but, unless I am mistaken, it is not an official doctrine of any Christian denomination except for Mormonism.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Remember, the Bible does say that ultimately every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.

The Bible says exactly that.

Here

By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone
are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame. (Isaiah 45:23-24)

And here

Romans 14:11 (New International Version)


"It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

(Paul was paraphrasing Isaiah and not quoting him directly.)