Why is God Unknowable?

[xander-]

Why is god unknowable... the first step would be to define "god".

is god just some "sky daddy", a cartoonish representation of an old man with a grey beard, or is god something more? maybe he's everything, a system, of reactions and choices. maybe he's a magnent that makes all things flow according to his grand scheme of infinite wisdom. maybe he's more like a superhero, with the ability to copy himself *ahem, jesus*, fly, heal... maybe god is what you get when you add all the superheroes of the TV/series "HEROES" together.

But if we assume, just for the sake of arguement, that god is just a a guy sitting in a place with a lot of weed (heaven, right?), and is the man who writes definitions to morals all day long, then we don't know if he exists since no one knows what heaven is, no ones been dead and come back and said "this is what it's like" - except Jesus, but let's not go there... and a few other prophets who claim to have seen a city of pearls, gold, land of milk/honey.. whatever.

on the other hand, if god is somewhat a representation of creation and our very lives, then he can't be understood, and therefore he can't be known.

what i've started to like about agnostics is that they don't deny the fact god exsists, nor do tehy embrace it. they realize that either way, we wont know until we're dead, so no need to stress.

personally i'd say, follow your own heart. it's the best and closest spiritual guide and counsler you have -- and like a fat kid with cookies, you always got it on you =) and it doesn't force you to believe (or KNOW) if there's a god or not.

 

[GURSIKH]

Why is God Unknowable

a fish cannot know the limit of OCEAN .

 

[S-word]

A strong agnostic would say that God is inhernetly unknowable, right?

Why?

God is knowable to all peoples of all race, religions and cultures, because what can be known about God is plain them, for God himself made it plain, ever since God created the world from an invisible egg which burst forth into a living universal body in which there developed a controlling mind who is Lord of all within that body except for the immanent creator 'The Logos,' who is the divine animating principle which pervades the entire universal body. His invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature are clearly seen, for they are perceived in the creation itself, which is the visible manifestation of the invisible ever growing mind that is God, who is today as he was yesterday and will be into all eternity, for he is the only constant, in that he is constantly changing. As the wonderful Omar Khayyam said, he is the Master whose secret presence through creations veins, running quick silver like eludes your pains; taking on all shapes from moon to cow, which shapes change and perish all, but he (The only true constant) remains.

 

[lamplighter]

And exactly how would you know all this?

 

[S-word]

And exactly how would you know all this?

That which was in the beginning has become who you are, and who you are is joined to its beginning by an unbroken genetic thread of life. Beginning now, try tracing you ancestral line to its beginning, not to the beginning of mankind but to the beginning of that which has become who you are. You cannot be unless that which is 'who you are' was in the beginning and one with the singularity that is has become all that is.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please note that this is a discussion forum for agnostics. Please, no debating.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Jaiket,

Why is God Unknowable?

So god is unknowable as the knower cannot know and only when the knower and known becomes one then god IS.
Love & rgds

 

[gnostic]

God is truly unknowable from our current viewpoint because we can never achieve the perfect controlled experiment to understand the laws that control quantum matter and other dimensions.

But, if you can imagine anything then you can imagine everything, and that is truly the key to knowing God.

What you look for, you will find, eventually. The only real question is this, how long will it take you?

So if I imagine hard enough that God is either a mouse or a bird, then God could be truly seen and known as Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Jaiket,

Why is God Unknowable?
A strong agnostic would say that God is inhernetly unknowable, right?

God is created by the human mind and it can be realised and not known as only when we undo all *KNOWING* does that realisation/understanding happens.
Love & rgds

 

[jrbogie]

A strong agnostic would say that God is inhernetly unknowable, right?

Why?

why? because of the definition of agnostic. since nothing is knowable as a pure agnostic like me sees it, god is inherently unknowable. agnosticism has nothing to do with gods or religion. has to do with knowledge in general.

 

[Yerda]

why? because of the definition of agnostic. since nothing is knowable as a pure agnostic like me sees it, god is inherently unknowable. agnosticism has nothing to do with gods or religion. has to do with knowledge in general.

Since we're talking about it on RF you can assume that we're talking about gods or religion .

So, if nothing is knowable, is God merely another part of an indiscernible universe or is God a special case?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I am agnostic, as well as an atheist. I've always seen the 'unknowable' aspect of agnosticism more as: if an entity we would define as 'god' does exit, it would necessarily be so far beyond our comprehension, that we couldn't know or say anything meaningful about its attributes, purposes, etc. - that's if we could even ascertain its existence.

A being like this could possibly exist - this is why I'm agnostic. However, there isn't sufficient evidence currently which would make me believe that this is the case - this is why I'm an atheist.

I am not agnostic, however, about mankind's various god concepts - Allah, Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Jesus, Vishnu, etc. I have no doubt none of these concepts are correct.

 

[Yerda]

if an entity we would define as 'god' does exit, it would necessarily be so far beyond our comprehension, that we couldn't know or say anything meaningful about its attributes, purposes, etc. - that's if we could even ascertain its existence.

Why would it be necessarily so?

 

[Willamena]

why? because of the definition of agnostic. since nothing is knowable as a pure agnostic like me sees it, god is inherently unknowable. agnosticism has nothing to do with gods or religion. has to do with knowledge in general.

And... this view of agnosticism, this is something you know?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why would it be necessarily so?

I wouldn't define it as god otherwise.

 

[Yerda]

I wouldn't define it as god otherwise.

Ah, fair enough. That doesn't take us closer to an answer, though, just round in a circle.

Why would you define God as unknowable?

 

[Willamena]

Ah, fair enough. That doesn't take us closer to an answer, though, just round in a circle.

Why would you define God as unknowable?

Technically, he defined 'God' as "so far beyond our comprehension, that we couldn't know or say anything meaningful about its attributes, purposes, etc."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Ah, fair enough. That doesn't take us closer to an answer, though, just round in a circle.

Why would you define God as unknowable?

If I could know anything meaningful about something's attributes and purpose, it would not be a god. God, being an entity who consciously created our universe and everything in it, and has purpose(s) for doing so.

Just taking into account the sheer scale and complexity of the universe, and our extremely limited faculties and existence when measured against it, it is exceedingly unlikely that we could possibly comprehend anything remotely meaningful about an entity which could, and did, create it.

 

[Willamena]

If I could know anything meaningful about something's attributes and purpose, it would not be a god. God, being an entity who consciously created our universe and everything in it, and has purpose(s) for doing so.

Just taking into account the sheer scale and complexity of the universe, and our extremely limited faculties and existence when measured against it, it is exceedingly unlikely that we could possibly comprehend anything remotely meaningful about an entity which could, and did, create it.

Is this "purpose(s)" of 'God's' deduced? And, if so, isn't that something meaningful we comprehend about 'God'?

Even to claim 'God' as "an entity" is to say that something can be comprehended about 'God'.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Is this "purpose(s)" of 'God's' deduced? And, if so, isn't that something meaningful we comprehend about 'God'?

Defining that something has a purpose, or has something analogous to what we define as purpose, and being able to understand anything meaningful about what that purpose is, are two different things. Is simply knowing something has a purpose, but not being able to comprehend anything about it, meaningful? I wouldn't define it as such.

However, your point is taken, and essentially, I agree. But, in order to facilitiate communication of ideas, I have to say something about the nature of god, in order to put it in the context of a more meaningful concept about the nature of god.