Why is evangelising so offensive?

[QuestioningMind]

Why is evangelising so offensive to some people?

Please explain!

Recently I made a post on RF about evangelising - me and some friends were going to set up a stall in a public place in my town

All we were going to do was to set up a table and be there if anyone's interested - no street preaching, no bothering people: nothing like that

Apparently some people find this offensive!

Just a passive Christian presence in a public place

I do not seek to belittle your beliefs or to force my religion onto you

I merely wish to advertise its existence to those who don't know

People can then chose to either be interested or to ignore us

If the Holy Spirit moves people to be interested then that's great

But if not then no problem!

Also, we are not motivated by money, nor congregation growth: we are concerned for your spiritual wellbeing

We want to share the good news

And if people want to come to the Lord as a result of our activities then that's a fantastic bonus...

We have every right to do this

Just as you have every right to avoid and ignore us

So can we not just be sensible and respect each other's rights?

If I advertise that I exist and that I believe in certain things I do not see how that amounts to being forceful, I just don't see it that way

I don't find evangelists as much offensive as I do annoying, basically because they rarely if ever want to have an actual conversation, as opposed to simply preaching at me. That said, I can understand why some people would find it offensive. That's because for some people the Christian religion has had a very destructive affect on their lives.

Imagine if you'd been raised in an oppressive cult that you finally managed to escape from and then you see members of this oppressive cult at the park trying to recruit new members. The fact they they claim to be different from the cult you were trapped in probably wouldn't be very persuasive to you.

If you recognize that there are Christian sects that are very oppressive and controlling and have very negative affects on some people's lives, then maybe you'll have a better understanding as to why some people view your efforts as a threat.

 

[Eddi]

You asked for opinions, right? Your responses beg the question: Do you want opinions, or only opinions that agree with your POV?

I will be out. This discussion is generally useless, as proselytizers rarely change their view. I guess it says, if you don't want contradicting opinions, then don't ask the question.

You do realise this is in a "debates" forum?

 

[Eddi]

"why don't you take this pamphlet?"

"No, thank you."

"I can't accept that answer. Here are a bunch of reasons why I think you should take it."

That would never happen

We aren't even going to be handing out pamphlets, as far as I'm aware the plan is to offer prayers for those who approach us

I should imagine there would be a big sign advertising prayers and that all those who don't want to know have to do is walk on by

I think you should probably realize that I'm not sure whether you're being forthcoming about the details of your plan. I can't tell whether you're actually planning to be as inoffensive as possible, or if you're describing offensive things in euphemistic terms so that they sound better than they are.

I want to be as inoffensive as possible

And as un-intrusive as possible too

We are not seeking confrontation

We hope that peoples' religious tolerance will cover us

And likewise we should exercise religious tolerance

By being as inoffensive as possible

 

[Eddi]

I think it’s fine if it come with a pre cursor “we believe in this” and not “this is true”,that’s IMO.

If I ever end up explaining myself to others I use "believe" rather than "is"

As to me it is a belief rather than an objective fact, although I believe myself to be correct

 

[England my lionheart]

If I ever end up explaining myself to others I use "believe" rather than "is"

As to me it is a belief rather than an objective fact, although I believe myself to be correct

That works for me.

 

[Eddi]

imagine if I were to tell you "My Master gives salvation, Jesus is a fraud"
How would you feel if I were to belittle Jesus, by saying "My Master is the only way, your Jesus does not cut it?" or "Your Bible is not true"

I wouldn't care

I'm not that insecure

And if you then said "why don't you follow my faith" all I'd do is say "Sorry, no thanks. Not interested. Have already got a religion"

I have said this to Jehovah's Witnesses

BUT on the other hand, if you respectfully (as per RF Rules) enthusiastically share about your faith, not belittling other's faith; then no problem

What the plan is (as far as I'm aware) we are going to offer prayers for those who want them

We would not bother people

Someone floated the idea of guitars, but I won't do it if there are guitars involved

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why is evangelising so offensive to some people?

Please explain!

Recently I made a post on RF about evangelising - me and some friends were going to set up a stall in a public place in my town

All we were going to do was to set up a table and be there if anyone's interested - no street preaching, no bothering people: nothing like that

Apparently some people find this offensive!

Just a passive Christian presence in a public place

I do not seek to belittle your beliefs or to force my religion onto you

I merely wish to advertise its existence to those who don't know

People can then chose to either be interested or to ignore us

If the Holy Spirit moves people to be interested then that's great

But if not then no problem!

Also, we are not motivated by money, nor congregation growth: we are concerned for your spiritual wellbeing

We want to share the good news

And if people want to come to the Lord as a result of our activities then that's a fantastic bonus...

We have every right to do this

Just as you have every right to avoid and ignore us

So can we not just be sensible and respect each other's rights?

If I advertise that I exist and that I believe in certain things I do not see how that amounts to being forceful, I just don't see it that way

Go for it Eddi, I see it is not Prolteszing, I would say hello and maybe have a chat about the possibilities of Faith. The more people think about God and embrace our possibilities of virtue the better.

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That would never happen

We aren't even going to be handing out pamphlets, as far as I'm aware the plan is to offer prayers for those who approach us

I should imagine there would be a big sign advertising prayers and that all those who don't want to know have to do is walk on by

I'm not sure how you expect me to have a conversation with you when you keep changing what you're saying.

You were the one who brought up pamphlets (twice now, assuming that's what you meant by "literature" in your other OP). Now you say you're not doing that.

How about you decide what you're planning to do before you look for feedback on what you're planning to do?

 

[Eddi]

You were the one who brought up pamphlets (twice now, assuming that's what you meant by "literature" in your other OP). Now you say you're not doing that.

I was using that as an example, we may have leaflets to offer but only to those who approach

Also, bear in mind that what people are saying is influencing me

In another post in this thread I said that I'm no longer cool with us playing guitars - I am no longer cool with this as I can see how offensive to others that may be, as a result of this thread

If there are going to be guitars I will not join in, simple as

 

[Augustus]

Why is evangelising so offensive to some people?

Please explain!

Depends how it is done.

If it's just a stall or people handing out leaflets then it's no different from anyone else with a cause related stall or handing out leaflets for a shop.

Just walk past if you're not interested. No need to get precious about it.

If people are aggressive or get in your way then it's as annoying as anyone else who does this. Paid charity collectors actually tend to be the worst for this.

Folk knocking on your door is pretty annoying too, but 99.9% of the folk who do this are selling something not evangelising.

The kind I don't like is when it is devious. I remember there was a little stall where I used to live that kept trying to get people to take a 'stress test' and had a little machine that looked like an ammeter . I did it once our of curiosity as to what the scam was.

After they told you you were highly stressed they gave you a 'free' book on Dianetics as they were really Scientologists. After they gave you the free book they asked you to give them a donation for the free book so I offered them 20p which they refused and asked for £5-10. At which point they were told to **** off so they asked for their book back

 

[Rival]

Depends how it is done.

If it's just a stall or people handing out leaflets then it's no different from anyone else with a cause related stall or handing out leaflets for a shop.

Just walk past if you're not interested. No need to get precious about it.

If people are aggressive or get in your way then it's as annoying as anyone else who does this. Paid charity collectors actually tend to be the worst for this.

Folk knocking on your door is pretty annoying too, but 99.9% of the folk who do this are selling something not evangelising.

The kind I don't like is when it is devious. I remember there was a little stall where I used to live that kept trying to get people to take a 'stress test' and had a little machine that looked like an ammeter . I did it once our of curiosity as to what the scam was.

After they told you you were highly stressed they gave you a 'free' book on Dianetics as they were really Scientologists. After they gave you the free book they asked you to give them a donation for the free book so I offered them 20p which they refused and asked for £5-10. At which point they were told to **** off so they asked for their book back

Lol can you imagine this with the Gideon Bibles given out at schools?

"Here's your free Bible, kids!"

"Okay."

"Now hand over your dinner money."

 

[Eddi]

Paid charity collectors actually tend to be the worst for this.

I was once on a train and there were two paid charity collectors talking about their day, they must have been going home

They talked about "scoring" by getting people to sign up and sounded really really mercenary

"Chuggers" they are called - "charity muggers"

In the future if one bothers me I'll ask if they are paid or volunteering and see what happens

I think they should be challenged rather than avoided

And yes, I can see that this line of reasoning could be applied to those who are evangelising

Although with me I would never bother people like chuggers do

 

[Augustus]

I was once on a train and there were two paid charity collectors talking about their day, they must have been going home

They talked about "scoring" by getting people to sign up and sounded really really mercenary

"Chuggers" they are called - "charity muggers"

In the future if one bothers me I'll ask if they are paid or volunteering and see what happens

If it's the big groups of young people in high streets working for brand-name charities, they are paid. I was offered that work when I was a student but refused. It actually paid better than the bar work I was doing, but bar work is an honest job.

I find charities that have developed into large bureaucracies using a significant proportion of their donations to pay for the wages of fundraising, administrative and managerial staff to be immoral.

Especially when people consider that being a paid worker for a charity is somehow virtuous.

I won't donate to any charity that has a significant payroll.

 

[Kenny]

Except that one can see atheists on RF continually discussing religion with theists with no personal discomfort. The theist frequently imagines this, because they believe that god and spirits are tugging at us and we are busy trying to ignore them and rationalizing the decision. Many believe that it is simply not possible to not believe in gods, and that this means that we are in conflict with ourselves saying otherwise or trying to believe otherwise.

I think you didn't read my post. The context is when someone comes to the situation described and become angry with those people as described by HumanistEvangelist. He described what the poster said as insulting taking it personal;

If one discusses religion with no personal discomfort... great. Discussion and presentation of thoughts are given with no offense. I have no problem with that.

But it's nothing like that at all. The last guilt I felt from religion was when leaving it. Religion does that to a mind. Even when I had decided that the religion was false, I still found myself talking to Jesus, asking for a sign if I was making a mistake. That waned over about a year, and I have no such thoughts any longer. It really was like quitting an addictive substance, continually calling one back even as he is trying to walk away.

I'm happy that you are at peace.

So, the feelings you describe don't occur for me. When I look at my life, I am content with my decision to leave Christianity and embrace a worldview that considers applying reason to evidence a virtue, and faith an error, a form of guessing. What does religion have to offer such a person?

I'm fine with that. As you noted, you are content with your decision. Certainly to enjoy the Christian faith, one has to want what it offers as they believe it.

Maybe you should listen to the people that you think secretly want to join you, but are resisting and feeling conflicted and guilty. Do I sound like that to you? Do you think I want advice from theists on how to think and how to find happiness, from people that think faith is a virtue and a path to truth? How can it be when any idea and its polar opposite can be believed equally strongly by faith not only without evidence, but despite contradictory evidence? How should I feel about a worldview based in faith, especially given my prior experience holding such a view and it's inability to meet my needs then?

I always try to listen. Your questions are great but I think a little too broad to deal with all of them

I assure you that whoever told you that we are not Christians because we are afraid to examine our lives has convinced you of something that serves your religion, not you.

I don't think I said that. If one examines one's life and concludes "I don't want Jesus"... I am actually quite fine with it. Maybe I presented my thought wrong? I was talking about those who get upset.

And you believe it by faith despite the evidence like this post that you are incorrect. You believe it because you want it to be true. You prefer to think that you have something others want and need. So, when they tell you otherwise as I have just done, you dismiss it with the wave of a hand, because beliefs founded in faith are essentially impervious to evidence.

I don't come to those conclusions and I don't know where you got that conclusions. Maybe because you misunderstood what I said? (Or I expressed it wrong?)

We see this with the creationists, with the climate deniers, with the antivaxxers, and with the election hoax proclaimers - all faith-based positions, all contradicted by evidence, and that being irrelevant to them. The flat-earther's are an excellent example of faith-based thought as well.

Evidence is a funny thing. Two people can look at the same evidence and come to two completely different conclusions.

Hope I cleared it up for you.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think you didn't read my post. The context is when someone comes to the situation described and become angry with those people as described by HumanistEvangelist. He described what the poster said as insulting taking it personal;

It's Evangelicalhumanist, Ken...always has been. And you are trying to recast what I said to mean something quite different. Please don't do that.

For the record, I asked "What can you possibly know about MY spiritual well-being? And why do you presume that Christianity can speak to MY spiritual well-being?"

And yes, I did say that I found "that assumption offensive, actually."

Evidence is a funny thing. Two people can look at the same evidence and come to two completely different conclusions.

Generally, that's not very accurate. It rather depends on what you consider "evidence." There are people who will say that the Bible is "evidence" but the Qur'an is not, for instance -- that one was "inspired by God" and the other just written by some human(s). Notice I don't specify which.

On the other hand, a headless body, a knife with the deceased blood on the blade and only the accused prints on the haft, are pretty much read the same by all investigators.

 

[Dogknox20]

In Britain, as a rule we do tend to find this kind of thing a bit rude and inconsiderate because we expect religion to be private. I have no issue with it if it's waiting for folks to approach you not the other way, but others will still think it unseemly having religion in the public square.

Rival I do NOT live in England... But what about the famed "Speakers Corner" in London!?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes. The question is why they have such issues. That's the subject of the thread.

I think because it's annoying when people think their religion is the only true one instead of letting people do what is best for them. The scare tactic is often used and it's a horrible reason to convert to a religion but sadly it's effective.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why is evangelising so offensive to some people?

Please explain!

Recently I made a post on RF about evangelising - me and some friends were going to set up a stall in a public place in my town

All we were going to do was to set up a table and be there if anyone's interested - no street preaching, no bothering people: nothing like that

Apparently some people find this offensive!

Just a passive Christian presence in a public place

I do not seek to belittle your beliefs or to force my religion onto you

I merely wish to advertise its existence to those who don't know

People can then chose to either be interested or to ignore us

If the Holy Spirit moves people to be interested then that's great

But if not then no problem!

Also, we are not motivated by money, nor congregation growth: we are concerned for your spiritual wellbeing

We want to share the good news

And if people want to come to the Lord as a result of our activities then that's a fantastic bonus...

We have every right to do this

Just as you have every right to avoid and ignore us

So can we not just be sensible and respect each other's rights?

If I advertise that I exist and that I believe in certain things I do not see how that amounts to being forceful, I just don't see it that way

There are some opinons we hold that are deeply personal, specifically ideologies and religion. And we have found from personal experience that discussions on these topics usually get people too riled up for comfort. Therefore we expect to be left alone. If we have a question on another view, we will inquire. But for example, I don't wnat someone knocking on my door and trying to convince me to become a republican. It's just downright irritating. Go home.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have no idea


I would not consider such a location to be a public space, as it would border on a private space

Hmm...welp, if that's all you took from my post, fair enough.
*Tips hat and bows out of thread*

 

[stvdv]

I wouldn't care

I'm not that insecure

I am not insecure either, I could not care less, but I know it is disrespectful. But the point I was making was not whether you get upset or not

The point was that evangelizing usually implies belittling (non)faith of others, and those Christians are usually unaware, but what you describe is not belittling, hence I said "go for it", seems great to me, and very respectful.

The question I asked was whether or not you can feel (are aware) that it's arrogant to belittle other people's (non) faith (saying Jesus is the only way)? I asked this, because I met many Christians who evangelize, and are unaware that it is belittling, and hence inappropriate. Once, just once, I met a girl, and when I pointed it out to her, she said "yes you are right, it is arrogant ... so be it ... then I am arrogant, but I feel Jesus is asking us to do this".

To her I said "at least I am glad you are honest about it, and not twisting things to make it sound better than it is". Still I personally won't do it, if it means I need to act arrogant, but you are free to do so, that is what Religious Freedom is all about. But you won't see me again (and of course she could not care less)

What the plan is (as far as I'm aware) we are going to offer prayers for those who want them

We would not bother people

Someone floated the idea of guitars, but I won't do it if there are guitars involved

And if you do it this way, that is "not belittling, and just respectful". Asking others to pray for them, is a respectful way to go about it.

I think it's even great with guitars. I love those praise songs, I went to a Baptist Church, thrice on Sundays if there were 3 times praise songs

Why would you not go when there are guitars involved, what is wrong with singing and guitar playing? I love it. Music touches the heart