Why is America condemning?

[Meow Mix]

Why did America condemn Syria and Iraq if they would use Poison gas when they themselves used Enrich uranium in Fallujah were babies are now born with disorders?

Because America's leadership can often lapse into corruption and hypocrisy, and the left hand often has no idea (or doesn't care) what the right is doing?

My country is a bizarre thing -- its ideals are among the highest I can think of, yet its leadership consistently fails to realize or even consider those ideals in practice.

Just know that the American public doesn't always support what our leaders do, even if we're partially to blame collectively for consistently failing to put a stop to the madness.

Maybe some day Americans will realize they are strong.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

So, were is your proof that they did?

As far as I know the US denies doing any such thing.

I agree, sounds like a bunch of hogwash.

 

[F0uad]

I agree, sounds like a bunch of hogwash.

The government denies everything there is no surprise in that, why do you think there is a investigation going on?

The Cause of Congenital Anomaly and Cancer in Fallujah Iraq is Identified As Enriched Uranium From Novel Weapons Systems Deployed by the US.
- The Cancer& Birth Defects Foundation

IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005 - Department of Molecular Bio sciences, University of Ulster



Moreover in 2005 General Peter Pace confirmed it and i can cite many more sources if needed..

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In Fallujah it has been proved that they did use enriched uranium, ...

Where? By whom?

From the Huffington Post:

Hair samples taken from the population of Fallujah revealed levels of lead in children with birth defects five times higher than in other children, and mercury levels six times higher.

Basra children with birth defects had three times more lead in their teeth than children living in areas of Iraq which were not subject to similar bombardments. ...

The US military has denied they used depleted uranium, which has been repeatedly linked to birth defects.

Other damaging metals include lead and mercury. Lead can pass from mother to child and cause acute lead poisoning, leading to brain and nerve damage.

Babies who survive lead poisoning may be severely brain damaged or suffer behavioural disorders.

Mercury poisoning damages the brain and kidneys, and the metal can be absorbed through air, water and soil by mothers, who may have babies who suffer blindness, seizures and brain damage.

The WHO has pinpointed nine areas of Iraq, including Fallujah and Basrah, where residents are deemed to be "high risk" for its forthcoming study.

Professor Alastair Hay, a professor of environmental toxicology at Leeds University, who studied the links between Agent Orange on Vietnamese birth defects after the US conflict, called the figures "quite extraordinary, the change seems huge."

He told The Huffington Post UK there had never been a comparable study. "The first thing I would want to do is compare the levels of metals found in people in comparable conflicts worldwide.

"What cannot be discounted is the effects of extreme stress on people living under daily bombardment.

"Stress has major physiological effects, not only miscarriages, but stress can dramatically effect the blood brain barrier, which prevents chemicals in circulation in your body from entering the brain. It is more like to 'leak'. Stress hormones can also cause damage.

"It also matters what the data is like pre-conflict on things like birth defects, which may have been underreported due to social stigma.

"The WHO research will be crucial because it focuses on nine different areas, not just Fallujah and Basrah. This will give a degree of comparability, looking at what weapons were used where and what effects have been seen.

"We need to know a lot more about the affects of conflicts on public health."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The following is from AJE's Did the US cause Fallujah's birth defects? with my notes in [red]:

Subsequent investigations [By whom? Reported where?] have focused on the possible use of depleted uranium by the US for its armour-piercing qualities. The US, however, denies using such weaponry.

Research has shown elevated levels of radioactivity in Fallujah and across Iraq. [Reference?]

Iraqi physicians have also long reported a spike in cases involving severe birth defects in Fallujah since 2004. They have reported children born with multiple heads, serious brain damage, missing limbs and with extra fingers and toes.

A report published in 2011 [What report? Conducted by whom?] on the level of uranium and other contaminants in hair from the parents of children with congenital anomalies in Fallujah partly concluded that: "Whilst caution must be exercised about ruling out other possibilities, because none of the elements found in excess are reported to cause congenital diseases and cancer except uranium, these findings suggest the enriched uranium exposure is either a primary cause or related to the cause of the congenital anomaly and cancer increases. Questions are thus raised about the characteristics and composition of weapons now being deployed in modern battlefields."

Am I missing something here? How is this not the most infuriatingly irresponsible journalism?

 

[F0uad]

Where? By whom?

From the Huffington Post:

​

You forgot to mention this:

The WHO report into birth defects in Iraq is due next month, but is expected to show a startling increase in deformities in babies born after the Iraq War.

In the study, headed by Mozhgan Savabieasfahani, researchers found that between 2007 and 2010 in Fallujah, more than half of all babies monitored by researchers were born with birth defects.

Before the war, this figure was around one in 10.

I have read everything and the article doesn't dismisses anything the only thing it does is repeat this statement:

The US military has denied they used depleted uranium, which has been repeatedly linked to birth defects.

 

[F0uad]

The following is from AJE's Did the US cause Fallujah's birth defects? with my notes in [red]:

​

Am I missing something here? How is this not the most infuriatingly irresponsible journalism?

Where did i Quote or use Al-Jazeraa as a source?

Several qoutes from that article:

"'Shake and bake' is an instance of using white phosphorus offensively, in the language we were using at the time, to smoke insurgents out of their fighting holes then using high explosives to kill them later."

- Ross Caputi, a former US marine


"Some kind of dust or material, whether it's uranium, whether it's some chemical we don't know, must've got into the air, must've got into people's bodies and into their food and their water … there are traces, most of the material are inside the individual parents."

- Dai Williams, a weapons researcher

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You forgot to mention this: ...

No, I did not "forget to mention it." Rather, I chose not to mention it simply because it had absolutely no relevance to the claim" "it has been proved that they did use enriched uranium."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Where did i Quote or use Al-Jazeraa as a source?

Where did I suggest that you did?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Several qoutes from that article:

"'Shake and bake' is an instance of using white phosphorus offensively, in the language we were using at the time, to smoke insurgents out of their fighting holes then using high explosives to kill them later."

- Ross Caputi, a former US marine


"Some kind of dust or material, whether it's uranium, whether it's some chemical we don't know, must've got into the air, must've got into people's bodies and into their food and their water … there are traces, most of the material are inside the individual parents."

- Dai Williams, a weapons researcher

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And thank you particularly for ...

- Dai Williams, a weapons researcher

Who?

Greetings! My name is Dai Williams. My profession is a work psychologist; I am an occupational psychologist from the UK. My background is that I worked in the oil industry for 15 years in human resources and also at one time looking at occupational health programs. [source]

Oh. That Dai Williams. Thanks again.

 

[Koldo]

Why did America condemn Syria and Iraq if they would use Poison gas when they themselves used Enrich uranium in Fallujah were babies are now born with disorders?

By America, do you mean the americans or the government, or both?
It is important to keep in mind that americans also criticize their own government.

 

[F0uad]

By America, do you mean the americans or the government, or both?
It is important to keep in mind that americans also criticize their own government.

Government off course.

 

[F0uad]

By America, do you mean the americans or the government, or both?
It is important to keep in mind that americans also criticize their own government.

Government off course now sure how the common civilian can use enriched uranium.

 

[Meow Mix]

Government off course now sure how the common civilian can use enriched uranium.

*Temples fingers evilly*

Muwahahaha...

(Though more seriously, I have nothing but empathy for anyone suffering from genetic abnormalities regardless of the source and do not mean to imply apathy towards their plight)

 

[Mr Spinkles]

F0aud,

The concerns you have raised are definitely valid, but I think you have confused the facts a little.

The proposed link is between birth defects in Fallujah and Basra and depleted uranium bullets, as well as other heavy metals used in bullets and bombs (or churned up from the environment by bombs) such as lead and bismuth and mercury. It's not about enriched uranium. AFAIK depleted uranium is a legal weapon, although perhaps it shouldn't be.

This Al-Jazeera article explicitly talks about "depleted uranium", and only mentions "enriched uranium" once, which I suspect is a typo:
Fallujah babies: Under a new kind of siege - Features - Al Jazeera English

This Al-Jazeera interview makes it clear the concern is about depleted, not enriched, uranium:
[youtube]O_id1uApYKk[/youtube]
Interview: Abdulhaq Al-Ani on Uranium in Iraq - YouTube

And notice that Robert Fisk, who is a tremendous critic of Western policy in the Middle East, does not rush to blame uranium, depleted or otherwise, for this horrible tragedy:
Robert Fisk: The Children of Fallujah - the hospital of horrors - Robert Fisk - Commentators - The Independent

Finally, the major (only?) scientific study on the question of birth defects in Basra and Fallujah focused on the enormous increase in lead, and other metals, that was correlated with birth defects. Not enriched uranium, or even depleted uranium. (They do note that uranium levels appeared elevated, but it was not statistically significant and not nearly as significant as the increase in other metals.) The conclusion of the study is that the bombardment "exacerbated public exposure to metals", presumably from inhalation of pulverized munitions or contaminated water.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u35001451t13g645/fulltext.pdf?MUD=MP

Combine exposure to lead and the stress of war and the depleted uranium and this could explain the birth defects ..... and none of those weapons are illegal. That doesn't mean illegal weapons were not used elsewhere by the U.S. or that the invasion of Iraq was justifiable, of course. I'm just trying to get the facts right.

 

[F0uad]

F0aud,

The concerns you have raised are definitely valid, but I think you have confused the facts a little.

The proposed link is between birth defects in Fallujah and Basra and depleted uranium bullets, as well as other heavy metals used in bullets and bombs (or churned up from the environment by bombs) such as lead and bismuth and mercury. It's not about enriched uranium. AFAIK depleted uranium is a legal weapon, although perhaps it shouldn't be.

This Al-Jazeera article explicitly talks about "depleted uranium", and only mentions "enriched uranium" once, which I suspect is a typo:
Fallujah babies: Under a new kind of siege - Features - Al Jazeera English

This Al-Jazeera interview makes it clear the concern is about depleted, not enriched, uranium:
[youtube]O_id1uApYKk[/youtube]
Interview: Abdulhaq Al-Ani on Uranium in Iraq - YouTube

And notice that Robert Fisk, who is a tremendous critic of Western policy in the Middle East, does not rush to blame uranium, depleted or otherwise, for this horrible tragedy:
Robert Fisk: The Children of Fallujah - the hospital of horrors - Robert Fisk - Commentators - The Independent

Finally, the major (only?) scientific study on the question of birth defects in Basra and Fallujah focused on the enormous increase in lead, and other metals, that was correlated with birth defects. Not enriched uranium, or even depleted uranium. (They do note that uranium levels appeared elevated, but it was not statistically significant and not nearly as significant as the increase in other metals.) The conclusion of the study is that the bombardment "exacerbated public exposure to metals", presumably from inhalation of pulverized munitions or contaminated water.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u35001451t13g645/fulltext.pdf?MUD=MP

Combine exposure to lead and the stress of war and the depleted uranium and this could explain the birth defects ..... and none of those weapons are illegal. That doesn't mean illegal weapons were not used elsewhere by the U.S. or that the invasion of Iraq was justifiable, of course. I'm just trying to get the facts right.

According to other sources such as General Peter Pace (who confirmed it was used), The Department of Molecular Biosciences University of Ulster and The Cancer and Birth Defects foundation it was used.

Moreover you make a contradicting statements here first you show me a video where it says depleted uranium and then you say uranium was not used. You know that there are missiles that contain depleted and enriched uranium right? So what is it according to you was uranium used or not? Moreover i was not talking about if depleted uranium is illegal or not i was asking if its not hypocrisy to point fingers at other countries when you yourself use chemicals such as depleted or enriched uranium.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

According to other sources such as General Peter Pace (who confirmed it was used), The Department of Molecular Biosciences University of Ulster and The Cancer and Birth Defects foundation it was used.

Moreover you make a contradicting statements here first you show me a video where it says depleted uranium and then you say uranium was not used. You know that there are missiles that contain depleted and enriched uranium right? So what is it according to you was uranium used or not? Moreover i was not talking about if depleted uranium is illegal or not i was asking if its not hypocrisy to point fingers at other countries when you yourself use chemicals such as depleted or enriched uranium.

The issue with the birth defects in Fallujah and Basra was the use of depleted uranium munitions. Not enriched uranium. Depleted uranium ammunition or armor is not really a "chemical" any more than lead or steel is a "chemical". The reason they use depleted uranium is because it's denser than lead. It's purpose is otherwise the same as lead. It is a ballistic weapon not a chemical weapon, a depleted uranium bullet is intended to kill the same way as an ordinary lead bullet, it's not like mustard gas which kills by burning of the skin or suffocation.

 

[F0uad]

The issue with the birth defects in Fallujah and Basra was the use of depleted uranium munitions. Not enriched uranium. Depleted uranium ammunition or armor is not really a "chemical" any more than lead or steel is a "chemical". The reason they use depleted uranium is because it's denser than lead. It's purpose is otherwise the same as lead. It is a ballistic weapon not a chemical weapon, a depleted uranium bullet is intended to kill the same way as an ordinary lead bullet, it's not like mustard gas which kills by burning of the skin or suffocation.

The fact is that depleted uranium is radioactive and can change cells.

DU (Depleted Uranium)

The use of DU in munitions is controversial because of questions about potential long-term health effects.[5][6] Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure, because uranium is a toxic metal.[7] It is weakly radioactive and remains so because of its long radioactive half-life (4.468 billion years for uranium-238, 700 million years for uranium-235). The biological half-life (the average time it takes for the human body to eliminate half the amount in the body) for uranium is about 15 days.[8] The aerosol or spallation frangible powder produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites, leading to possible inhalation by human beings.[9]
The actual level of acute and chronic toxicity of DU is also a point of medical controversy. Several studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.[5] A 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU.

Source Depleted uranium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mr Spinkles]

It's weakly radioactive. So is a banana. All the toxic effects of depleted uranium cited in your sources are due to its being a toxic metal when inhaled or ingested, similar to other metals like lead, barium, etc. Your source doesn't claim the toxicity is due to its (weak) radioactivity, and there is no need to, since ingesting lead is toxic, too, without any radioactivity. This is probably why, unlike chemical weapons, DU is not banned by international law, otherwise conventional lead munitions might have to be banned, too, according to the measurements done in Basra and Fallujah.