Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[sojourner]

“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus. And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This has nothing to do with reading ancient texts.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The Logos is not particularly the Bible. Do you really think that God speaks ONLY through the Bible???

No, but that’s what we were talking about.

 

[Subduction Zone]

For sure, Democrats side with criminals instead of the police. Ex. Michael Brown - Hands up don’t shoot, such a lie.

I agree, part of it is a false narrative. The Michael Brown case is not a good one for those in favor of change to cite. Being unarmed does not mean harmless.

But there is no doubt that the even that set this off was a clear case of abuse by the police. Some of their story is false, but the heart of it was based on reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No it’s not. It’s populist.

?

 

[sojourner]

The causes of the riots is what made them news. And why are you conflating Democrats with the news services anyway? That is some strange thinking going on.

He’s gaslighting you. Just saying what he knows will get to you.

 

[sojourner]

No, but that’s what we were talking about.

We can’t equate what’s written in the Bible with Logos. Period.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He’s gaslighting you. Just saying what he knows will get to you.

Of course he is. He knows that he is wrong about the Bible. That is why he refuses to debate it. I see this from people that claim to be Christians all of the time. They claim that they are Christians but they do not "walk the walk". They barely "talk the talk".

 

[sojourner]

?

It’s incendiary, populist rhetoric, designed to unbalance and belittle. It’s a power grab technique.

 

[sojourner]

Of course he is. He knows that he is wrong about the Bible. That is why he refuses to debate it. I see this from people that claim to be Christians all of the time. They claim that they are Christians but they do not "walk the walk". They barely "talk the talk".

The tired, old “God said it; I believe it; that settles it” codswallop.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I agree, part of it is a false narrative. The Michael Brown case is not a good one for those in favor of change to cite. Being unarmed does not mean harmless.

But there is no doubt that the even that set this off was a clear case of abuse by the police. Some of their story is false, but the heart of it was based on reality.

Media lies about these criminals, race baiting and all the division they cause. Democrats do the same, all to control people. Climate justice now lol, what kind of Dung is that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Media lies about these criminals, race baiting and all the division they cause. Democrats do the same, all to control people. Climate justice now lol, what kind of Dung is that?

Being a criminal does not justify a death penalty.

 

[ElishaElijah]

We can’t equate what’s written in the Bible with Logos. Period.

Why not?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Being a criminal does not justify a death penalty.

Depends on if the criminal is threatening someone else’s life, all the criminal needs to do is comply with the police and problem solved.

 

[sojourner]

Why not?

Because the Bible has human authors, writing through their own lenses of understanding. “Logos” equates more precisely to “idea,” “precept,” or “concept” in a world where writing is not the norm. Printed text would have been the last thing on their minds.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Depends on if the criminal is threatening someone else’s life, all the criminal needs to do is comply with the police and problem solved.

Yeah, Floyd was quite threatening lying on the ground with his arms held behind him by handcuffs.

 

[rational experiences]

Then the burden of proof would be upon that person. Merely claiming to be a messenger about God is worthless.

O God is science human quotes.

By humans as humans.

A human is with God why no man is God.

With God versus UFO occult science who theory aliens Satan first as where humans came from as theists.

A human says I own living bones.
I said my bones stay with God first as stone.

Obviously if you nuked stone products it would affect our living God bone life. As living humans. Why humans told humans as humans you are evil.

All said by a human about evil minded humans.

Notice human is said the whole time.

Then biology said to the occultist by the way apes are next lesser form than us humans not Satan or aliens.

A message makes a human notified to be a messenger.

About self human.
About stone changes science.

Good self versus evil self theme notified why earth life changed. Nuclear science chosen the answer against stone god supporting life.

Notice a human as a human says the status

I know mother father came into atmospheric life from eternal as pre owned eternal beings. Not science not science status proof by thinking.

Their physical spirit changed within their bodies due to water oxygen microbes. Why we are nearly just water life.

So they became with the spirit of God was how it was taught.

The heavens separated us from the eternal self. As they own radiation. We die we still had one spirit in the eternal. What was taught.

Heavens owned recording lived to deceased life. As psychics see recorded deaths also. Eternal spirit can speak through records of deceased lived life proving we came from spirit and not occult burning history in space.

Seen it.

Not any messenger ideal.

If the Bab disappeared as a human he proved that humans as adults had come directly out of eternal body. Babies who we all are from human sex.

Nothing for an occult human theist to string or own science thesis against us.

 

[F1fan]

The bible gives the details of Jesus life, his teachings and who he claimed to be .

So what? That a book includes stories about Jesus doesn't set any sort of objective standard. You can't judge the Quran because it insult the Bible. That's just your personal bias, and irrelevant objectively.

Muhammad comes along 600 teats after the fact ,

The New Testament came many centuries after the Torah, which never itself mentions Jesus.

as one witness to a visitation in a cave by an angel, conveniently no eyewitnesses to this event ,and we have a different account of Jesus from the biblical one . A Jesus who didn't die on a cross ( which even most scholars who don't believe the bible conclude Jesus did die on a cross ) And was just a prophet 2nd to Muhammed . How convenient for muhammed .

So you have no actual standard to dismiss and judge the Quran except that you personally have decided the Bible is the truth. So we throw your claim out.

 

[rational experiences]

Experience spiritual.

Humans living as humans being humans.

As a self you are as personally as old as you are.

Discussing human life in history.

History Multi years of humans having experienced spirit is not an argument.

The argument in practical human thinker is genetic family apparent self human superiority.

Jesus historic question whose genetics was he.

The actual argued theme.

The past history states occult temple pyramid science caused the God attack spirit vision angel image changed from heavenly clouds to the ground.

Science caused human chosen.

Then it happened again as science temple was rebuilt.

Rome not Egyptians nor Muslims or Jewish owned the technology re use.

Yet the elite trade in all countries was involved.

Virtual human claim not our fault life was re attacked.

Humans reading data. Historic dates and being DNA land owners. As a human status.

Argue today.

There is no argument about history.

There is however a human claim to land DNA human status being compared as human to human.

History says as does modern life. Humans were always given angelic messages. See visions. Get healed. Get messages. Get attacked sacrificed.

Same stories.
Same reasons.
Science occult to convert radiation bodies the reasoning. Alchemy.

Lots of different human DNA lives today being attacked. Being very spiritual. Having phenomena occur the same as history.

Variation to history.

Science owned one of massive life attack caused events. Several times historic.

When hurt the science practice was stopped.

Human life and living conditions not practicing science saw no foreseeable future problem. As historic advice.

Humans did re practice science caused it again.

Not any reason to argue today about human superiority.

 

[F1fan]

Why should it be a “dilemma?” God is broad; concepts of God are similarly broad. My claims are not unique. Just because you’ve never encountered them doesn’t make them “unique” within the scope of the Christian household. There isn’t truly a “consensus” of Christian belief. My view is better, from my own perspective, in that it remains true to the teachings of love, compassion, forbearance, grace, hospitality, equity, and forgiveness brought forth in the biblical and traditional accounts of the Christian family. It affords dignity to every being, and is kind to the created order.

There being over 40,000 Christian sects is a dilemma for any Christian who believes they have the truth. Look at your debate with Barry Johnson, you two are Christians and have a dispute over the truth. This illustrates the murky nature of Christianity. You can be an open minded liberal who accepts gay marriage, or a die hard zealot who is a member of the KKK. That’s all Christianity. I know you want your type of Christianity to be awesome, but many forms of it are not decent people.

Define “typical” in this instance. I didn’t create them for myself. They are consistent with certain manifestations of Christianity.

Typical is just the basic doctrine of protestantism. The beliefs about the resurrection and salvation are quite simple: Jesus was sent by God to bring a message, and then be sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind. Your comments disagree.

What do Christians say is true? The Christians with whom I associate don’t say that.

Ask Barry Johnson what he thinks. See if he agrees with you.

God doesn’t “force” the future. God allows the world to unfold.

My computer autocorrected. I meant God foresees the future, yes? If so then God created Jesus knowing he was going to be executed, and his death treated as a sacrifice to God. Didn’t you say you don’t think God accepted this sacrifice?

Not to all Christians. Again, that’s the view of Substitutionary Atonement, which is not the only — or best — construct.

So you’re admitting there is even more confusion among Christians. What makes your choice of interpretation correct?

That’s because you’re trying to squeeze my ideas into a box of preconceived notions you have of what “all Christians must believe.”

Well I find the amount of disagreement among Christians astounding. Shouldn’t there one truth? I think Christians need to get together and figure out what the truth is.

The majority of the Christian household are Trinitarian. Therefore, your statement is incorrect.

The majority? I'll have to look that up. Frankly I have no idea how many Christians believe the Trinity. It’s odd that is isn’t settled.

I think Jesus died because of the sin of humanity. I think God knows this, and chose to fully enter humanity, not in spite of, but because of it.

So then, in your view, what was the purpose of God having to enter humanity? That you suggest this implies God didn’t know what humans experience, and if that is the case how can God be a moral authority? Could this be why God is indifferent to the suffering of children and the innocent?

Of course. All we can do is construct theologies that attempt to speak to our spiritual condition.

So any theology a person constructs is true? But the truth any arbitrary person has ends with them and isn't objective truth?

Not mine. Not of anyone who’s not a Calvinist. Not of anyone who doesn’t follow Augustine. No. In the view of the many of us who don’t follow these theologians, humanity is inherently blessed, God became fully human in the person of Jesus, through an act of giving up Divinity, that Jesus came, not just to teach, but to embody Love and compassion, that Jesus was sacrificed through an act of state terrorism because of humanity’s sin, and that we are reconciled to God through Jesus’ joining of earth to heaven.

So you don't think the resurrection means anything, nor salvation as a result of his execution?

Of course! Theologians aren’t infallible. And theology isn’t a method of being “right” or “wrong” about God. It’s merely a forum in which we can explore the Divine.

So you could be mistaken in your interpretation and beliefs.

You presented it as if I had said that God is just matter. God is present in the created order. Those energies that we call “fields” and “light” are the same properties that ultimately form matter. But they don’t just form matter. To put it theologically, I believe that the world is “God’s body” — the physical manifestation of God. I believe that the frequency of the universe is God’s “heartbeat” or vibration that creates life. I believe that God “spoke” this frequency in the Big Bang. I believe that whatever exploded out of the Big Bang is the “substance” of God, and we know scientifically that everything is comprised of, and shares, that substance.

None of this is a description of reality. Science informs us about what matter is. The "substance" of God is in the category of the imaginary.

“Salvation” and “sacrifice” have little to do with each other in my construct. That’s an assumption you make that simply does not hold true for all Xy.

Again you admit Christianity has a huge buffet of beliefs that any arbitrary believer picks and choses to suit their taste.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because the Bible has human authors, writing through their own lenses of understanding. “Logos” equates more precisely to “idea,” “precept,” or “concept” in a world where writing is not the norm. Printed text would have been the last thing on their minds.

And yet God out His Seal on them