Why have we not solved this problem yet?

[gnomon]

You're right, it is simplistic to say weapons money should be used on food. It is far more complex and I think you have covered that complexity well in your post. The solution is as complex as the problem.

Overcoming our archaic "tribalism" as you mentioned would help a lot. How this can be achieved, practically, is beyond anything I can imagine.

 

[England my lionheart]

The linked site is not very promising.

It lists the statistics of people suffering.

Not one solution nor, as this issue inevitably always ignores, the following:

1) Cultural conflicts: Polio vaccination has come to a halt in certain areas due to a mistrust, rightly earned, among some cultures against the vaccination program

2) Logistics. It doesn't matter one bit how much food is produced in the United States. There is going to be a cost to moving that food. It's that simple. Their is also going to be politics involved in moving that food and while the U.S. is the worlds leading food aid provider the methods involved are not in the best interests of those we aid.

3) Even more than logistics and culture. It's best represented by Somalia and Mogadishu when a band of warlords held and then ran out the world community. The warlords gave not one whit for the people who were dying. Somalia is once again facing famine. Their are pirates off the coast. The billions of tons of excess food do not mean anything without the will to do something about it. It seems Americans have forgotten the image of a soldier dragged through the streets of Mogadishu. In that instance, I think some groups will be glad of those missiles.:sarcastic

4) Religion. A tricky issue considering that Christian based missionaries do worlds of good in parts of the world regarding food, clean water, etc. However, along with that comes the baggage like Pentecostalism in Nigeria placing accusations of child witches. Whose ready to stand up and denounce the religion. The government of Nigeria has been slow to act. If their own government will not protect the children who will? An outside group? Scientists?

I'm not trying to be the naysayer but simplistic arguments such as military spending responsible for the lack of food aid worldwide is simply wrong. There are many more issues involved.

As the United States already involves itself through both private and government efforts in food aid then perhaps the U.S. government should revise it's methods to follow Europe and private groups in ending monetization programs on top of ending subsidies that are taken up by agribusiness in the States. Follow New Zealand. A more rational and less greedy approach to aid would help far more than simply diverting money from building ten stealth bombers. Which, by the way employed a large number of people and kept their families fed.

That and organizations need to make sure they do it right so that in places like Kenya when an outbreak of polio occurs after the vaccination program they are not accused of such things as "trying to sterilize Muslims.".

i completely agree,there is no quick easy fix to these problems

 

[challupa]

My wife recently went to Chicago,while she was there she was in a restaurant and found that the portions of food was too much for her and said to another lady there it seems such a waste,the lady told her that most people who come to the restaurant get a doggy bag and give it to the homeless on the street,i suppose this way the restaurant cannot be held responsible.

Yes that is a great idea. I take a doggy bag often. I usually reheat it the next day, but it's a great idea to give it to someone. I was talking more though about the amount that never makes it out of the kitchens that is chucked in the garbage at the end of the day.

 

[challupa]

Overcoming our archaic "tribalism" as you mentioned would help a lot. How this can be achieved, practically, is beyond anything I can imagine.

I don't know either. Most people I talk to just seem to dismiss it completely as not doable and maybe they are right. I hope not. I think people are starting to go in that direction, but it will be a long slow journey...

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes that is a great idea. I take a doggy bag often. I usually reheat it the next day, but it's a great idea to give it to someone. I was talking more though about the amount that never makes it out of the kitchens that is chucked in the garbage at the end of the day.

Yes i have seen the goods yard of my local supermarket and there were bins full of food and lots of bread,such a waste

 

[Eddy Daze]

The Myth of Scarcity The Journey of Self - Discovery -- Prabhupada Books

 

[Eddy Daze]

Satellite360: The Great Money Trick (Robert Tressell, 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists&#39

 

[Eddy Daze]

If you think of all the productive areas on earth, including the forests and oceans and think about the actual human biomass it should be simple to feed the world , I think some years ago the population could fit on a tiny island like the isle of white I think, this is probably like a couple of zebras with the whole savanah at there disposal or a sheep with all the pennine grassland.

(even deserts can be made fertile re the Kibbutz system, and with modern technology I bet we could grow in arctic regions, maybe greenhouses lit and heated via wind power)

 

[logician]

Instead of the pope piousuly denouncing birth control, adultery etc. thus furthering hunger, starvation and suffering around the world, the Catholic church should move into the 21st century and work towards family planning and population control, and reducing suffering.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Instead of the pope piousuly denouncing birth control, adultery etc. thus furthering hunger, starvation and suffering around the world, the Catholic church should move into the 21st century and work towards family planning and population control, and reducing suffering.

I agree with you except the adultery thing.

 

[Eddy Daze]

Did the last two posters read the links? if so what did you make of them?

 

[gnomon]

The Myth of Scarcity The Journey of Self - Discovery -- Prabhupada Books

I didn't read past the first few paragraphs.

Human prosperity flourishes by natural gifts and not by gigantic industrial enterprises. The gigantic industrial enterprises are products of a godless civilization, and they cause the destruction of the noble aims of human life. The more we increase such troublesome industries to squeeze out the vital energy of the human being, the more there will be dissatisfaction of the people in general, although a select few can live lavishly by exploitation.

Are these the same natural gifts such as the monsoon season that disappeared and gave way to the demise of the Indus civilization. I wonder how many people starved at that time? How many people die during flooding? How many non-industrialized peoples have died to Krakatoa, earthquakes in China killing hundreds of thousand prior to the industrial world.

The natural gifts such as grains and vegetables, fruits, rivers, the hills of jewels and minerals, and the seas full of pearls are supplied by the order of the Supreme, and as He desires, material nature produces them in abundance or restricts them at times. The natural law is that the human being may take advantage of these godly gifts of nature and thus satisfactorily flourish without being captivated by the exploitative motive of lording it over material nature.

So do the efforts of industrialized men to actually bring those crops that nature is not providing are against natural law?!

The more we attempt to exploit material nature according to our whims, the more we shall become entrapped by the reaction of such exploitative attempts. If we have sufficient grains, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, then what is the necessity of running a slaughterhouse and killing poor animals?

Because most people do not have sufficient grains, fruits, vegetables and herbs but can get the nutrition they need from animal flesh.

But all these natural gifts are dependent on the mercy of the Lord. What we need, therefore, is to be obedient to the laws of the Lord and achieve the perfection of human life by devotional service. The indications by Kuntī-devī are just to the point. She desires that God’s mercy be bestowed upon her and her sons so that natural prosperity will be maintained by His grace.

Here's the stopping point. Inserting this form of religion into an argument about human starvation. It makes no sense except to that minority which believe in this but to the majority of people who do not and especially those who are suffering it's useless.

I found the article as a whole useless for any practical purpose. Especially passages such as this,

People say that the population is increasing, and therefore they are checking this by artificial means. Why? The birds and beasts are increasing their populations and have no contraceptives, but are they in need of food? Do we ever see birds or animals dying for want of food? Perhaps in the city, although not very often. But if we go to the jungle we shall see that all the elephants, lions, tigers, and other animals are very stout and strong. Who is supplying them with food? Some of them are vegetarians and some of them are nonvegetarians, but none of them are in want of food.

That expresses nothing but ignorance of the natural world.

 

[Eddy Daze]

Gnoman...It all appears straight forward to me , I have no objection to man eating meat for survival, but when these slaughter houses are open simply to serve tastebuds then thats a different matter.

Its very simple really these communes and religious temples, kibbutz are surviving well, the ones that are doing best should be treated as a successful experiment that can be applied to society as a whole.Industry has created stockpiles which are used to oppress control and kill the poor, this is simply explained in the second link.

 

[Eddy Daze]

"People say that the population is increasing, and therefore they are checking this by artificial means. Why? The birds and beasts are increasing their populations and have no contraceptives, but are they in need of food? Do we ever see birds or animals dying for want of food? Perhaps in the city, although not very often. But if we go to the jungle we shall see that all the elephants, lions, tigers, and other animals are very stout and strong. Who is supplying them with food? Some of them are vegetarians and some of them are nonvegetarians, but none of them are in want of food."

This is in places where man has not interfered even after big disasters the earth recovers, Have you ever seen a boat pull up shoals of fish that are starving and dying as quick as the human poor are? I have travelled well and places untouched by man are abundant, and the places that man respects the environment abundance occurs , take the community of Findhorn for example, or the old Chinese paddy fields which had ducks and perch in them that ate the insects and pests, on hills that had little rainfall...btw I also lived well in britain on zero income, for over a year that included winter, and from land which man had dameaged.

 

[gnomon]

The link explains nothing.

It clearly states that man must work with nature, read God's, gifts and that industrialization is an evil.

It claims all this while cleverly ignoring that prior to industrialization starvation, disease and suffering at the hands of nature's gifts was widespread and far more often even worse than after mankinds industrialized efforts.

Oppression of the poor is a staple of many world religions in practice. No spiritual organization has offered any more hope to the suffering of humanity than any scientific organization imbued with humanist principles.

Arguments that humans need religion as stated by the article fall flat when they ignore the whole of human history.

 

[Eddy Daze]

We only need to think of the oppressive industrial regimes here that are in general opressing poorer men women and children for the sake of profit , as explained in the second link, the loafer class is opressing a labour class stealing their labour.

consider this point...during a documentary a Brazillian cleaner woman was stood being interviewed in front of a table laden with fruit and veg, she lived in a shanty town behind her were the glittering sky scrapers, she pointed to them and said she had to work all week in one of those to obtain enough money to purchase that amount of fruit and veg, in the past it would have took her about half a day to gather from the forests and fields,now ruined by man, thats what the second link explains , the great money trick, how to rob people of their labour and land and stockpile the commodities to control , thats nothing to do with reakl religion, but they can use it as an excuse to acquire more land on behalf of the opressors.

 

[Eddy Daze]

gnoman...How do you think I survived on zero income , through winter and with no home?

I will tell you , wild food, handouts from temples, mosques, churches, christian organisations, sikh temples etc. While industry via the supermarkets threw out piles of still eateable food stuffs that ended up on landfill , if the organised church or other organisations are opressing people it is not to be mixed up with the genuine followers and them tarred with that brush, or the genuine profits, avatars etc such has Christ, also only up on the hills was springwater safe to drink as all the other water supplies where chemicaly flavoured by industry..even the tap water

 

[gnomon]

gnoman...How do you think I survived on zero income , through winter and with no home?

I will tell you , wild food, handouts from temples, mosques, churches, christian organisations, sikh temples etc. While industry via the supermarkets threw out piles of still eateable food stuffs that ended up on landfill , if the organised church or other organisations are opressing people it is not to be mixed up with the genuine followers and them tarred with that brush, or the genuine profits, avatars etc such has Christ, also only up on the hills was springwater safe to drink as all the other water supplies where chemicaly flavoured by industry..even the tap water

That's great.

That's also not what the article talked about that you posted. Rather than asking if others read I suggest you might want to take a go at reading it yourself.

edit: And if you think I'm disparaging religious humanitarianism then you obviously have not read my posts.

 

[Eddy Daze]

That's great.

That's also not what the article talked about that you posted. Rather than asking if others read I suggest you might want to take a go at reading it yourself.

edit: And if you think I'm disparaging religious humanitarianism then you obviously have not read my posts.

I have read it a few times over the years, but that last post was about a comparrison between the goods of religion compared to industry, not about the article, the post regarding the Brazilian was in a way complementing the second link about the money trick

 

[Eddy Daze]

Could not get the "delete"button to work for that post.

In the past people mass migrated if they were hit by famine or food shortage and some in warmer climates had nomadic lifestyles.

I was going to post a link but could not find it, it was about a book called Affluenza, which maybe worth searching for reviews of, I have to dash now. more later.