Why fear God?

[sojourner]

No, no, no. Don't tell me what I'm perceiving. Tell me what you're perceiving. I already know what I'm perceiving.

What did Jesus mean when He said He would reward every man according to His works. Don't dance around the question. Just a straightforward answer will do very nicely.

LOVE! Love is its own reward! That's why it feels better to give than it does to receive! When we love extravagantly, we receive so much more in return. Have you not experienced that?

Similarly, selishness begets selfishness, and anger, anger, and hatred, hatred...no? Jesus said, "You reap what you sow."

I don't believe that salvation is a reward. Reward implies some sort of action that wins the prize. Salvation isn't a prize. It's the result of God's great love for us.

I know this is difficult for a lot of people. It goes against the grain of how many read the Bible, and against the grain of what many have been taught about salvation. I wrestled with it for quite a while, too. In fact, I still do!!! But, I believe wholeheartedly in God's absolutely perfect love for us -- an unconditional love in which there is no place for condemnation.

 

[fromthe heart]

How can anyone who has experienced love, and returns that love to others not know Jesus? Jesus is the embodiment of love, by whatever name you call it.

I do not believe in the "lake of fire" as a literal thing. I look at it this way: When we "test" steel, we place it in a big fire and beat the crap out of it with a big hammer. That strengthens the steel and makes it pliable so it won't shatter. Maybe those souls who have been implacable will be "tested" similarly by God, in order that they become pliable enough to accept the love God has shown them.

To buy that idea you would have to discount part of scripture that says about the ones who will be taken up and the ones who won't...the ones who will inherit the kingdom of God and the ones who won't...you seem to say that in the end an Atheist will be forced by painfull molding to conform to God in their lives or that they will ahve a time in their lives to 'change their mind' after death...I know many who were not saved when they died I will tell you my Bible tells me that these will burn in torment for ever and ever...see Revelations 14:11 Some do not have any fear of God in any respect because they have chosen to not believe as we do...

We are all tried by fire in what you said but not all end up accepting God. We all have trials that either make us stronger of break us...you are mixing up the whole concept of what God is saying in these trials...it speaks of our works after salvation that whether they were done for God or done for self. To even think of self once saved is completely against salvation itself...you place yourself in the hands of God for God's use in what He sees fit and works after salvation are for the glory of God...you act on thought in how God's name will appear through you... there is a verse in the Bible that you will know the ones who are saved by their fruits...As it says in Job...Create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit in me(.42 v.2) We CAN NOT do it ourselves but we ARE required to open the door at God's knock and RECEIVE what has been offered...this has nothing to do with works but out of obedience to what God requires of us FOR salvation!!!

 

[lovedmb]

No. I don't think you do! I think that God's love completely eclipses all the selfishness and ignorance we can generate.

Well frubals to you! This is the most sense I have heard in some time on a debate board.
That sounds like a God I could believe in. :bounce

 

[lovedmb]

Well frubals to you! This is the most sense I have heard in some time on a debate board.
That sounds like a God I could believe in. :bounce

Ok, well I'll have to come back and frubal you a bit later, I have to spread the love around a little more today. Better go check out some different types of threads!

 

[WeAreAllOne]

LOVE! Love is its own reward! That's why it feels better to give than it does to receive! When we love extravagantly, we receive so much more in return. Have you not experienced that?

Similarly, selishness begets selfishness, and anger, anger, and hatred, hatred...no? Jesus said, "You reap what you sow."

I don't believe that salvation is a reward. Reward implies some sort of action that wins the prize. Salvation isn't a prize. It's the result of God's great love for us.

I know this is difficult for a lot of people. It goes against the grain of how many read the Bible, and against the grain of what many have been taught about salvation. I wrestled with it for quite a while, too. In fact, I still do!!! But, I believe wholeheartedly in God's absolutely perfect love for us -- an unconditional love in which there is no place for condemnation.

This is a great post. I agree with you 100%

 

[sojourner]

To buy that idea you would have to discount part of scripture that says about the ones who will be taken up and the ones who won't...the ones who will inherit the kingdom of God and the ones who won't...you seem to say that in the end an Atheist will be forced by painfull molding to conform to God in their lives or that they will ahve a time in their lives to 'change their mind' after death...I know many who were not saved when they died I will tell you my Bible tells me that these will burn in torment for ever and ever...see Revelations 14:11 Some do not have any fear of God in any respect because they have chosen to not believe as we do...

We are all tried by fire in what you said but not all end up accepting God. We all have trials that either make us stronger of break us...you are mixing up the whole concept of what God is saying in these trials...it speaks of our works after salvation that whether they were done for God or done for self. To even think of self once saved is completely against salvation itself...you place yourself in the hands of God for God's use in what He sees fit and works after salvation are for the glory of God...you act on thought in how God's name will appear through you... there is a verse in the Bible that you will know the ones who are saved by their fruits...As it says in Job...Create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit in me(.42 v.2) We CAN NOT do it ourselves but we ARE required to open the door at God's knock and RECEIVE what has been offered...this has nothing to do with works but out of obedience to what God requires of us FOR salvation!!!

I think, in the end, an atheist, confronted with the awesome presence of God, will have much wrestling to do with their own conscience, much like being thrown into a lake of fire, and tempered. In the end, the atheist will have to admit, in the face of truth, that God exists, and that God loves him/her unconditionally.

As a matter of fact, I do discount that portion of scripture you mention, in a literalistic sense. This scripture is metaphorical, and not meant to be taken literalistically.

This thread is about why we should "fear" God. I think I've shown that "fear," meaning not, "to be afraid of," but rather, "to acknowledge God's awesome nature," compels us to accept the unbounded love that God has for us, as God's gift of grace. We need not be afraid of God, nor do we need to fear what will happen to us after we die. God has saved us, because God loves us unconditionally.

In what way is "to even think of self once saved...completely against salvation itself?"
What do you think salvation entails?

 

[lunamoth]

The English word "fear" in the Bible doesn't mean "fear" in the sense of being afraid. It more closely resembles a feeling of abject awe. We are to be in awe of God. (One of my many reasons why linguistics are important in Biblical interpretation.)

As I have often contended, it is precisely because God loves us perfectly that we have nothing to fear! God loves us. We are God's children. We belong to God, and there is nothing to fear, because nothing can separate us from that perfect love.

Well said, sojourner.

"Do not be afraid, for I am with you."

lunamoth

 

[Squirt]

LOVE! Love is its own reward! That's why it feels better to give than it does to receive! When we love extravagantly, we receive so much more in return. Have you not experienced that?

Well, that's a great answer to some question or another. It just doesn't answer question I asked. Jesus said He would reward everyone according to his works and all you can come up with is that love is its own reward.

Similarly, selishness begets selfishness, and anger, anger, and hatred, hatred...no? Jesus said, "You reap what you sow."

Exactly! He did NOT say, "You reap love and mercy and forgiveness regardless of what you may sow." And yet you seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what we sow. God's going to turn a blind eye to selflishness, anger and hatred. He expects NOTHING from us. He couldn't care less if we repent or make an effort to obey Him or anything else, and that all of these negative behaviors (selfishness, anger and hated) will simply cease to be an issue once we are standing before God to be judged.

I, too, believe that God is loving and merciful and that he will give us every conceivable opportunity to respond to His love and to the miraculous gift of His Son's Atonement. But I believe that even He will draw the line somewhere and that He respects our free will enough that He will not force anyone to accept that gift. He is the most perfect Father we can even begin to conceive of, but a perfect Father would expect something from His children. If He didn't, if He gave us commandments and then in the end simply disregarded them, I don't believe He would be worthy of my worship. I look to my God to be not only loving, but just.

I don't believe that salvation is a reward. Reward implies some sort of action that wins the prize. Salvation isn't a prize. It's the result of God's great love for us.

What do you believe salvation is?

I know this is difficult for a lot of people. It goes against the grain of how many read the Bible, and against the grain of what many have been taught about salvation. I wrestled with it for quite a while, too. In fact, I still do!!! But, I believe wholeheartedly in God's absolutely perfect love for us -- an unconditional love in which there is no place for condemnation.

I'll tell you what I think goes against the grain of what the Bible says and that is believing that God says, "Repent and obey my commandments" but when all is said and done, He doesn't really care.

 

[sojourner]

Well, that's a great answer to some question or another. It just doesn't answer question I asked. Jesus said He would reward everyone according to his works and all you can come up with is that love is its own reward.

Exactly! And yet you seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what we sow. God's going to turn a blind eye to selflishness, anger and hatred. He expects NOTHING from us. He couldn't care less if we repent or make an effort to obey Him or anything else, and that all of these negative behaviors (selfishness, anger and hated) will simply cease to be an issue once we are standing before God to be judged.

I, too, believe that God is loving and merciful and that he will give us every conceivable opportunity to respond to His love and to the miraculous gift of His Son's Atonement. But I believe that even He will draw the line somewhere and that He respects our free will enough that He will not force anyone to accept that gift. He is the most perfect Father we can even begin to conceive of, but a perfect Father would expect something from His children. If He didn't, if He gave us commandments and then in the end simply disregarded them, I don't believe He would be worthy of my worship. I look to my God to be not only loving, but just.

What do you believe salvation is?

I'll tell you what I think goes against the grain of what the Bible says and that is believing that God says, "Repent and obey my commandments" but when all is said and done, He doesn't really care.

I think what he's saying here is that we reap what we sow. If we make life difficult, then it will be difficult for us. Ultimately, though, I think that God returns love to God's children, no matter what they do.

I never said "it doesn't matter what we sow." I never said, "God expects NOTHING from us." In fact, I think it does matter to God, and to the world, and to us what we sow. I think God does have expectations of us. The Bible makes that clear. But I also think that God knows we are going to fall short of God's expectations. That's why Christ died for us! We are forgiven...no matter what. I think that, in the end, God will open the truth to us, and that truth, shown in the pure light of God, will be our judgment. When we look at our own lives in light of pure truth, Will any of us be found worthy of God on that day? I don't think so! In spite of all that, God chooses to return love for hate, love for selfishness, love for animosity, love for self-aggrandizement. God is love, and God has given God's self to us freely. I think, yes, in light of the ultimate love that is God, none of our human foibles will be able to stand, and none of it will ultimately matter in God's kingdom.

If you look for your God to be just, then get the asbestos ready. None of us can justly be found acceptable, for none of us is just. Only if we look for God to be loving above all else does the gift of grace work.

Edit: You asked what I thought salvation was. I think salvation is God's having commuted our death sentence despite ourselves.

 

[dawny0826]

Yet if your child chose to walk out in traffic you would pull them back would you not? what if they did it again? Even though you told them what whould happen would you not save them?

I know I seem to be attacking you but really I don't understand this. It seems, from my understanding that you could have someone do great deeds all their life and never "sin" and this person would go to Hell. Yet a man who killed someone, then saw the error of their ways, accepted Jesus and was granted into Heven. I really don't understand this, and was one of the main resons I stoped going to church, God's love seems conditional no?

Again, I said that the relationship between God and his Children is SIMILAR to that of Parent of Child. Of course, I would pull my daughter out of the traffic.

In many ways GOD does the very same with us. His mercies are new every single day. Every individual is given the opportunity to follow Him and God forgives time and time again. He does save us...if we SEEK that salvation.

Just like with my child...if my child repeatedly ran out into the road...as a parent, I would most certainly run after her time and time again...but my love and action wouldn't necessarily stop a vehicle under certain circumanstances from hitting her. That's the reality of life...we're given opportunities each and every day to follow Christ. And one day...our time on this earth will expire...in a blink of an eye.

God reaches out a hand to us every single day of our lives.

God's love is absolutely unconditional. Salvation is available to every single human being, regardless of flaw on this planet. But it must be sought. We do not gain entrance into heaven by deeds alone. We gain salvation through first and foremost ACCEPTING the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for our sins...then laying our old lives down to be reborn in Christ...THEN to live a life that is of GOD'S will, not our own.

You can't truly live a Christ-like life if you don't believe in Christ.

Every single person can repent of their shortcomings and come to Christ. CHRIST is the key. Christ is the way.

And I don't feel personally attacked by your questions. That's why I'm here...to answer these sorts of questions.

 

[michel]

Again, I said that the relationship between God and his Children is SIMILAR to that of Parent of Child. Of course, I would pull my daughter out of the traffic.

In many ways GOD does the very same with us. His mercies are new every single day. Every individual is given the opportunity to follow Him and God forgives time and time again. He does save us...if we SEEK that salvation.

Just like with my child...if my child repeatedly ran out into the road...as a parent, I would most certainly run after her time and time again...but my love and action wouldn't necessarily stop a vehicle under certain circumanstances from hitting her. That's the reality of life...we're given opportunities each and every day to follow Christ. And one day...our time on this earth will expire...in a blink of an eye.

God reaches out a hand to us every single day of our lives.

God's love is absolutely unconditional. Salvation is available to every single human being, regardless of flaw on this planet. But it must be sought. We do not gain entrance into heaven by deeds alone. We gain salvation through first and foremost ACCEPTING the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for our sins...then laying our old lives down to be reborn in Christ...THEN to live a life that is of GOD'S will, not our own.

You can't truly live a Christ-like life if you don't believe in Christ.

Every single person can repent of their shortcomings and come to Christ. CHRIST is the key. Christ is the way.

And I don't feel personally attacked by your questions. That's why I'm here...to answer these sorts of questions.

A lovely post, dawny. I love your anology between a parent and God; I think that the difference between you, as a mother and God as a Father is that he understands that life is so much more than we insignificant humans realise.

You don't let your child run accross a road, because she might die, and that would be 'your lot' - her life gone.

Whether or not you believe in reincarnation which I do), being run over by a bus is not such a big thing, and I guess it is just another of life's lessons that needs to be learned. Life (in God's eyes), I believe, is so much more than we know.

I guess God is to be feared (as a father would), each time you die (go back home), and he looks up your records for that life. If you haven't coped well, he will make you go out and do it all again, until you get it right. He has to be tough to be kind, just as we parents have to, at some stages with our children.

Wait for the time when they are in their teens, and you know they are 'out there' making mistakes, but they are the only ones who have to make them, even if we, as parents would be more than willing to take them by the hand; they do need to learn.

And, as far as I am concerned, that's how it is. At the end of time, we will all 'go home' and will all be welcomed back by our dear Father.........maybe some of the children will take longer to get to know the rules of the house, but that's life.

 

[fromthe heart]

A lovely post, dawny. I love your anology between a parent and God; I think that the difference between you, as a mother and God as a Father is that he understands that life is so much more than we insignificant humans realise.

You don't let your child run accross a road, because she might die, and that would be 'your lot' - her life gone.

Whether or not you believe in reincarnation which I do), being run over by a bus is not such a big thing, and I guess it is just another of life's lessons that needs to be learned. Life (in God's eyes), I believe, is so much more than we know.

I guess God is to be feared (as a father would), each time you die (go back home), and he looks up your records for that life. If you haven't coped well, he will make you go out and do it all again, until you get it right. He has to be tough to be kind, just as we parents have to, at some stages with our children.

Wait for the time when they are in their teens, and you know they are 'out there' making mistakes, but they are the only ones who have to make them, even if we, as parents would be more than willing to take them by the hand; they do need to learn.

And, as far as I am concerned, that's how it is. At the end of time, we will all 'go home' and will all be welcomed back by our dear Father.........maybe some of the children will take longer to get to know the rules of the house, but that's life.

I agree with mich in that dawny's post was very good. I also agree with every word...

on the other hand I, however, do NOT believe in reincarnation. Hebrews 9:27 says: And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die , but after this IS the judgement. We only get one shot at life so in our fear(Obedience) to God we must abide by ALL the scriptures. I can't find anywhere that it says we will have the chance to come back relearned from our mistakes. ONce we die our bodies are gone to Paradise and we will return only to this earth when Jesus does. but at no other chance will we have to attone for our sins and do our best to live for God as instructed in scriptures.

 

[sojourner]

Again, I said that the relationship between God and his Children is SIMILAR to that of Parent of Child. Of course, I would pull my daughter out of the traffic.

In many ways GOD does the very same with us. His mercies are new every single day. Every individual is given the opportunity to follow Him and God forgives time and time again. He does save us...if we SEEK that salvation.

Just like with my child...if my child repeatedly ran out into the road...as a parent, I would most certainly run after her time and time again...but my love and action wouldn't necessarily stop a vehicle under certain circumanstances from hitting her. That's the reality of life...we're given opportunities each and every day to follow Christ. And one day...our time on this earth will expire...in a blink of an eye.

God reaches out a hand to us every single day of our lives.

God's love is absolutely unconditional. Salvation is available to every single human being, regardless of flaw on this planet. But it must be sought. We do not gain entrance into heaven by deeds alone. We gain salvation through first and foremost ACCEPTING the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for our sins...then laying our old lives down to be reborn in Christ...THEN to live a life that is of GOD'S will, not our own.

You can't truly live a Christ-like life if you don't believe in Christ.

Every single person can repent of their shortcomings and come to Christ. CHRIST is the key. Christ is the way.

And I don't feel personally attacked by your questions. That's why I'm here...to answer these sorts of questions.

I agree somewhat with what you said here, with the following exceptions:

First of all, I don't believe that, even followers are humanly capable of living a Christ-like life. We're too flawed for that. We can only approximate a Christ-like life, and only that through the help of the Spirit.

Second, what is it to believe in Christ? What constitutes belief? What is the criterion? How do you know whether or not someone truly believes? The Bible tells us that believers will be known by their fruits -- how we love. I think that belief is finally defined by our actions -- it is the way we act that defines our status as believers. Christ called us to follow -- action -- do this, treat others this way, love these others, do what I command and as I teach. Christ did not call us to a system of faith. Indeed, it has been said that faith without works is dead. Therefore, I maintain that anyone (as Christ says) who does the things Christ did is a follower. It's those who approximate a Christ-like life that are said to be believers -- not those who "believe" that live a Christ-like life. I know lots of people who profess belief who act pretty badly toward others. Similarly, I know lots of people I'd trust my children's lives to who are atheists. Which is the better example of a follower?

Third, why must salvation be sought? In your post, you said, "God's love is absolutely unconditional ... but ... Is not the "but" placing a condition on God's love? You're right in your next sentence. We do not gain salvation by our deeds (and I think you should have put the period right there, without the "alone.") I maintain that salvation has already been achieved for us by Christ's sacrifice. Whether we accept it or not. God doesn't save us if we do something. God has already saved us because God loves us. Our response to that love is repentance, obedience, love in return. We love God because God first loved us. That's the response from us God's looking for. But I just don't believe that God takes away the grace God's already provided because we don't provide the "proper" response.

 

[Anastasios]

"Fear of GOD - What is sin? It is to go against the will of God and to violate His instructions given to mankind through prophets and especially through the Holy Prophet, sallallaho alaihi wa sallam. Sin is to reject boldly the guidance that is given to them and which they have understood properly. He who violates the commandments of God in connection with this guidance and acts mischievously attracts the wrath. The consequences of this temerity and boldness is not only this much that he will go to the hell in the next world; in this world also he will have to taste punishment and he will be humiliated.

Same is the case with the authorities that be in the worldly affairs. They promulgate a law and make it known to the people. Later on who ever is found violating it, he is charged and punished. But so far as the punishment of the worldly laws is concerned, one can manoeuver to leave that domain and go elsewhere and get rid of them. For example if one violates the law of the British Government, he can run to France or to the domain of Kabul and thus he can save himself from the punishment. But where can a man flee after the violation of the commandments of God, for, the earth and the sky that we see belong to Him. There is no earth and no sky elsewhere, belonging to someone else where one may seek refuge. This is why it is very essential that one must always have the fear of God and never show boldness in violating His commandments. Sin is a very bad thing and when a man becomes bold and does not fear the violation of the commandments, then the wrath of God descends on him in this world as well as in the next world."

 

[Squirt]

If you look for your God to be just, then get the asbestos ready. None of us can justly be found acceptable, for none of us is just. Only if we look for God to be loving above all else does the gift of grace work.

Ah, but you're misunderstanding me. I look to God to be just and believe He is just. There is a price to be paid for a debt incurred. I sin, therefore I am in debt to God. I do not have the means to repay the debt. Justice demands that I must therefore be punished. But Jesus steps forward and says to His Father, "I have paid the price for her sins. The demands of justice have been met." My sins are forgiven because God accepts Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf. The result is that He is both just and merciful.

Edit: You asked what I thought salvation was. I think salvation is God's having commuted our death sentence despite ourselves.

Are you saying then that salvation is synonymous with resurrection. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (That was off the top of my head. I may not have quoted it perfectly.) Do you see salvation as anything beyond a reprieve from the permanance of death?

 

[spookboy0]

well if God loves all us then why whould god damn some of us to Hell?

Why? I don't know. It's not my job to punish a soul.

However if the soul knows the Truth and fails to follow it, that's his problem. But if the soul doesn't know, it's the Christians fault for not telling him. And I don't mean going up to someone's face and saying "Hey there, Buster Brown. That's wrong and you're going to hell." I mean actually talking to them, explaing what is wrong and why it is wrong. Also by being a good example. You may be the only Bible some people will ever read.

 

[Ormiston]

But who's going to save the Christians...?

 

[spookboy0]

The One who punishes the non-Christians will save the Christians. After all, He's the judge, and He'll save and condemn whoever He sees fit. Who knows? He might save everyone EXCEPT Christians. We'll find out sometime.

 

[sojourner]

Ah, but you're misunderstanding me. I look to God to be just and believe He is just. There is a price to be paid for a debt incurred. I sin, therefore I am in debt to God. I do not have the means to repay the debt. Justice demands that I must therefore be punished. But Jesus steps forward and says to His Father, "I have paid the price for her sins. The demands of justice have been met." My sins are forgiven because God accepts Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf. The result is that He is both just and merciful.

Are you saying then that salvation is synonymous with resurrection. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (That was off the top of my head. I may not have quoted it perfectly.) Do you see salvation as anything beyond a reprieve from the permanance of death?

And that's all there is to it, for me! "My sins are forgiven because God accepts Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf. The result is that God is both just and merciful." No provisos, no "buts," no "ifs."

I think that bit of scripture is a good encapsulation of salvation, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[dawny0826]

I agree somewhat with what you said here, with the following exceptions:

First of all, I don't believe that, even followers are humanly capable of living a Christ-like life. We're too flawed for that. We can only approximate a Christ-like life, and only that through the help of the Spirit.

My point was that we should TRY to do so.

Second, what is it to believe in Christ? What constitutes belief? What is the criterion? How do you know whether or not someone truly believes? The Bible tells us that believers will be known by their fruits -- how we love. I think that belief is finally defined by our actions -- it is the way we act that defines our status as believers. Christ called us to follow -- action -- do this, treat others this way, love these others, do what I command and as I teach. Christ did not call us to a system of faith. Indeed, it has been said that faith without works is dead. Therefore, I maintain that anyone (as Christ says) who does the things Christ did is a follower. It's those who approximate a Christ-like life that are said to be believers -- not those who "believe" that live a Christ-like life. I know lots of people who profess belief who act pretty badly toward others. Similarly, I know lots of people I'd trust my children's lives to who are atheists. Which is the better example of a follower?

I don't understand how you could possibly consider someone who doesn't even accept that Christ is their Saviour and doesn't even believe in God Almighty to be a "follower of Christ". This is where you and I view things very differently.

You can't possibly follow a Christ that you don't believe in. You can be a GOOD person, but without Christ in your life...according to Scripture, you have not obtained salvation. To TRULY become a Christian...you repent and acknowledge Christ's sacrifice, and are reborn in the Spirit...receiving the Holy Spirit as your helper and comforter. You cannot receive the Holy Spirit unless you ask for Christ to enter you life.

Third, why must salvation be sought? In your post, you said, "God's love is absolutely unconditional ... but ... Is not the "but" placing a condition on God's love? You're right in your next sentence. We do not gain salvation by our deeds (and I think you should have put the period right there, without the "alone.") I maintain that salvation has already been achieved for us by Christ's sacrifice. Whether we accept it or not. God doesn't save us if we do something. God has already saved us because God loves us. Our response to that love is repentance, obedience, love in return. We love God because God first loved us. That's the response from us God's looking for. But I just don't believe that God takes away the grace God's already provided because we don't provide the "proper" response

God's love is unconditional. His love for us never changes.

But He will punish those who have turned from Him. HIS WORD makes this pretty clear.

What of those who spit on the Holy Bible and declare hate for God Almighty?

Does God love these people? Of course he does. I don't believe that they will see Him in Heaven though...unless they repent for their wrong doings and accept life that is only found in Christ.

What of Judas? Do you think Judas went to be with God? What of Hitler?

Did God love them? Of course he did/does. Do you honestly feel that these men went to heaven?

One cannot come to the Father unless he has been reborn in the spirit. And you cannot be reborn in the spirit unless you have accepted Christ's will...accepted HIS sacrifice. This is a choice...a decision that one makes. One must repent for their shortcomings. And allow Christ to literally come into their lives and change them from within.

" Jesus answered and said to him. "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God?"" John 3:3

If you don't believe in this, that is certainly your right.

I choose to believe the Word of God. I choose to believe Jesus Christ. I believe that if I were to live a life without belief in Him...without repentence for my sins and without giving my life to Christ...to live according to HIS will and not my own...I do not believe that I would see Heaven in death. It's a CHOICE. I have a choice.

Belief is Faith.

belief >noun 1 a feeling that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. 2 a firmly held opinion. 3 (belief in) trust or confidence in. 4 religious faith.