WeAreAllOne
Member
well if God loves all us then why whould god damn some of us to Hell?
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Why fear God?
- Thread starter WeAreAllOne
- Start date
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I love my daughter but when she disobeys...I punish her.WeAreAllOne said:
To a very similar degree, our relationship with God is like child and parent...only on a much larger (and deeper scale).
God makes his expectations pretty clear. And yes...this is where free will comes in. You either do as He instructs or not. He gives US the choice.
We choose our own fate in that respect. Doesn't change His love for us. He's already PROVEN his love for us through Jesus Christ.
WeAreAllOne
Member
I find this interesting. Why must God prove God's Love with bloodshed and death?
I wonder is their anything your daughter could do that you would banish her from your home for, or even kill her for?
I've never thought of being "God-fearing" as living in fear of invoking God's wratch. Maybe some other Christians do. I see this phrase as meaning that we acknowledge His power and the fact that, when all is said and done, we are subject to His judgment. I see God as loving and merciful, and am motivated by a desire to show Him how much I also love Him.WeAreAllOne said:
I agree. That's why I have never feared God, only respected Him.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
There is great LOVE in giving YOUR life for the hurt, worry and sins of the entire world.WeAreAllOne said:
As for your second question...I stated that our relationship with God is similar to that of a parent and child relationship...not identical.
And again, God makes clear His expectations...death...damnation doesn't HAVE to be a reality unless it's chosen.
We should fear God, while he does love us he is also a holy God that hates sin. Jesus talked more about hell then he did heaven, and then because he loved us so much he was willingly crucified to save us from hell. He paid for our sins on the cross, this way Gods anger and justice towards sin is still dealt with yet we as sinners can go to heaven.WeAreAllOne said:
Theres a few ways you can think of it, God is the judge and as people guilty of breaking his laws we should fear him because he hates our sin and will punish it, God is also our saviour - he provided a way for us to escape his wrath and hell yet without letting sin go unpunished.
So at times we can be motivated by both fear and love.
Here are some verses relating to this topic.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31
by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil Proverbs 16:6
I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:4-5
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD .
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil Proverbs 16:6
I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:4-5
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD .
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
From a biblical perspective this is a huge misconception. We are not basically good people - you see we tend to judge what is good just by comparing ourselves to those around us and saying see i dont sin as much as that person, but such reasoning just ignors that we do indeed sin and do things wrong in the sight of God. Thats why Jesus said "there is none good but God" and why the bible says elsewhere "all have fallen short of the glory of God".WeAreAllOne said:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:8-11
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:8-11
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The English word "fear" in the Bible doesn't mean "fear" in the sense of being afraid. It more closely resembles a feeling of abject awe. We are to be in awe of God. (One of my many reasons why linguistics are important in Biblical interpretation.)WeAreAllOne said:
As I have often contended, it is precisely because God loves us perfectly that we have nothing to fear! God loves us. We are God's children. We belong to God, and there is nothing to fear, because nothing can separate us from that perfect love.
WeAreAllOne
Member
Yet if your child chose to walk out in traffic you would pull them back would you not? what if they did it again? Even though you told them what whould happen would you not save them?dawny0826 said:
I know I seem to be attacking you but really I don't understand this. It seems, from my understanding that you could have someone do great deeds all their life and never "sin" and this person would go to Hell. Yet a man who killed someone, then saw the error of their ways, accepted Jesus and was granted into Heven. I really don't understand this, and was one of the main resons I stoped going to church, God's love seems conditional no?
WeAreAllOne
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't belive there is a Hell then do you? When I think of Hell that would be the largest possable separation from God.sojourner said:
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's right. I don't believe that anyone, in the end, will be able to be separated from God. I think that God's love for us is so perfect and so compelling that, when we experience it fully, we will not want to resist it any longer.WeAreAllOne said:
In response to your previous post: God's love is not conditional. It is perfect and, therefore, unconditional. You're mistakenly basing salvation on works. salvation does not depend upon what we do -- it depends upon Jesus having gone to the cross for us. The work of salvation has already been done.
steve at JRM
Member
Once I was saved, my fear of Him subsided into love, but I do fear for those that don't believe His word. He has given examples in history (His story) about what has happened to people who completely ignored the fact that he is all encompassing. We tend to think of God as an individual, but I believe He is much more than that.
WeAreAllOne
Member
So then do we have to do anything special? or are we already saved? do we have to believe anything?sojourner said:
I don't think there is a single more frequently debated issue among Christians. It seems to me that there are only three option:WeAreAllOne said:
1. We have to do absolutely nothing. We exist (though no choice of our own) and we will be saved by virtue of the fact that Jesus Christ atoned for our sins.
2. We have only to believe in Him. Once we recognize who He is and what He has done for us, we're home free.
3. We have to have faith in Him and we have to demonstrate that faith through our obedience to Him commandments.
I believe that Sojourner is going with option 2, the option which makes the least sense of all to me. Believing in Christ without being willing to take any responsibility at all for one's behavior is, in my opinion, the least Biblically supportable option of the three. If salvation truly is "a gift," and if we have absolutely no part to play in our own salvation, then option 1 is the only logical option. The "gift" would be more or less forced on us. We would not even be free to reject it.
The only difference between option 2 and option 3, is that with option 3, we are expected to be repentent and faithful. Option 2 still requires some action on our part -- that action being belief. To choose option 2, you're saying, "I have to obey the first commandment, to have faith in Christ, but I don't have to obey any of His other commandments." How much sense does that make?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
We stand in a state of having been saved by Christ going to the cross for us. There is nothing we can or must do to save ourselves. Grace is a totally free gift to us. We are all now free from the death of sin.WeAreAllOne said:
That is the good news. The following question isn't "Do I have to believe anything?" but, "Do I believe this good news?"
If you do, then what will your response be? Will you love Jesus because of this? Will you love others, being found in the same state as you are? How will you respond to this good news?
This just baffles me to no end, and I really do try to understand this POV.dawny0826 said:
But it makes no sense to me how, for example, someone who is good, kind, loving, generous, ect, etc, etc. but simply not Christian is less deserving of being loved by God and "let into heaven" than someone who has "accepted Jesus is Lord and Saviour" but basically is a crappy person.
How does that work?
This analogy always makes me laugh.dawny0826 said:
Get real. I love my dd too. Very much indeed. And when she does wrong I dicipline her. However I cannot fathom giving her a book, telling her to read it and understand exactly as I mean her too , without further direction from me at any point, or I will be sending her off to a pit of fire to suffer for eternity. God does not make his explanations clear. Hence the how many religions out there? There is nothing explicit about them. I also love my children unconditionally, and respect and love them. I hope for the same in return, but I still wouldn't want to have them tortured endlessly if they decided that maybe they couldn't really stand me after all.
The parent/God analogy is a miserable example, unless you honestly believe that your child could do so wrong by you that you would send them off to burn.
fromthe heart
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree with the statement that we don't have to do anything to be saved since Jesus paid the sin debt...We ARE saved by Grace but we must humble ourselves before the Lord and ask for this grace to be applied to OUR sins...we must take this step otherwise we are just letting Jesus die for nothing...Jesus said' Behold,I stand at the door, and knock,if any man who hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him and will supwith him, and he with Me".(Revelation 3:20) this means we MUST for this saving grace to be applied to our sins in the act of asking for the salvation and in repentance and in being consecrated by that salvation...those who claim to be Christians and are awful people probably are acting AS they think Christian means and have yet to do what is required for the saving grace of salvation to be applied to their own lives. There are many instances in the Bible where it says HE THAT HATH AN EAR LET HIM HEAR...some do not hear what God is telling them that they MUST do.sojourner said:
Now to respond to the OP...fear of God comes out of 'an awe' for God and His mightiness with what He can do...some should fear God because they leave their lives up to chance by not getting on their knees asking for God to come into their lives and forgiving them their sins and asking that the Grace done on the cross by Jesus be applied to them. You can NOT just say Jesus died for me therefore I am saved..it just is not so...you must answer teh knock at the door of your heart by Jesus' saving grace...those who do you will see it in their lives in how they interact with others and their charity to their fellow man/woman. They are not gossipers,known for not being liars, they do not step on someone to get to the top...things of this world are just not as important as they are to those who live in the flesh.
I won't continue to run on but that is MY opinion on the subject.
WeAreAllOne
Member
I really have a problem with this statment, I Know many, many born again Christians some being my father, step sister, and her husband. These people are no better than anyone else. they lie, they gossip and everything else. what makes them diffrent than anyone else that does these things? They go to church on sunday and say they are sorry. thats it. And yes, they speak in toungs and were baptised in a full tank of water, not just some drips. it's a Pentacostal church (sorry if I spelled that wrong).
these are basicly my questions as well. good post.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Absolutely not! I believe in neither of those choices (although choice 1 is closest). Have you not read any of my posts?Squirt said:
Here's what I think: (one more time)
God is love. God created each of us in love, out of God's desire for relationship with us. God gave us free will -- either to live in unity with God, or to live "apart from" God. Because it is the propensity and nature of humanity to choose our own way, we live in a "state of sin" -- in separation from God. Feeling the need to reconcile us to God, God became one of us, and sacrificed God's self to propitiate the sin we cannot, ourselves, propitiate. That one act has completely reconciled us to God. That one act has commuted the death sentence that sin carries. That one act constitutes what we call "grace." Grace is the free gift, given by God to all humanity. we need do nothing. The gift is already ours. Those who believe that, and who perceive the love of God in part, work toward more fullness of a life lived toward God. In the end, we will all see God face-to-face. We will be met with a love that is deeper and broader and higher than any love we have ever known, or could conceive of. When faced with the ultimate truth that God loves each of us equally, no matter who we are, or what we've done, we will choose to abide in that great love.
This has nothing to do with not taking resposibility for the love we perceive we have been given. It has nothing to do with "saving ourselves." It has nothing to do with our system of belief. Those of us who perceive the love and grace of God also perceive that God's kingdom is a "right now/not yet" proposition. We try to live as if the kingdom were here and now, knowing that the kingdom is also "not yet." However, that manner of living has nothing to do with gaining our salvation. It has everything to do with our response to perceiving that we are saved.
As we "live into" the kingdom -- as we "live into" the reality of our salvation, we become more and more in tune to and in unity with God.