Why Elohim?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Okay, someone please follow the questions and give your answers.

1) Do you agree that the word Elokim appears over 2000 times in the bible?
2) Do you agree that in almost EVERY instance that it appears - it is associated with a singular verb/adjective except in a few places. I think it's only like five off the top of my head.
3) Now, for all the people that say that is is believed that Jews believed in multiple gods, please explain the 2,000 other times its with a singular verb/adjective. Let's start with the first sentence in the bible.
4) Is it possible that you're guessing because you don't understand the language? Did you know that hebrew has two types of plurals? One specifically to denote a pair. Assuming you didn't know this, how can you be so sure on a hebrew grammar question such as why is elokim plural?

So, what's with Elokim? ​

But, of course, your (somewhat rhetorical) 'questions' are entirely appropriate. Too many find it too easy to spout dogma-driven mantra and resist evidence with a religious zeal.

One interesting theory coutesy of Hoffman, by the way, becomes even more compelling when one understands the dept Hebrew owe to Phoenician.

One possibility is that the word may have come from the older Akkadian or Phonecian word ilum, which, related to the Hebrew el, meant "god", not "gods". If so, elhym is the Hebrew ilum, that is, Hebrew God, and there is no puzzle.

According to Hoffman, the Hebrew heh ['h'], employed as a primitive vowel, was used "to mark initiation into Hebrew culture' - as was the case with Abraham and Sarah.

 

[~Amin~]

Okay, someone please follow the questions and give your answers.

1) Do you agree that the word Elokim appears over 2000 times in the bible??

YYYEEEEESSSSSS.

2) Do you agree that in almost EVERY instance that it appears - it is associated with a singular verb/adjective except in a few places. I think it's only like five off the top of my head.?

YYYEEESSSSS.

3) Now, for all the people that say that is is believed that Jews believed in multiple gods, please explain the 2,000 other times its with a singular verb/adjective. Let's start with the first sentance in the bible.?

I think its crazy lol.

4) Is it possible that you're guessing because you don't understand the language? Did you know that hebrew has two types of plurals? One specifically to denote a pair. Assuming you didn't know this, how can you be so sure on a hebrew grammar question such as why is elokim plural?

God Almighty sent you how can any one dispute with that
its you'r langauge.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So, what's with Elokim?

I had assumed that it was a lisp.

 

[~Amin~]

Because the Hewbrews weren't monotheistic until the exile.

They were always monotheistic God Never sent a prophet teaching
people to associate anyone with Him, all through thousands of years
only a certain group interpret certain verses in the New testament
to say god is three in one.

 

[~Amin~]

I had assumed that it was a lisp.

Angellous can you show ONE place in the Bible were it says
the word trinity, please dont bring up obscure verses and
misinterpret it , JUST show me ONE place.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They were always monotheistic.

Nonsense.

 

[~Amin~]

Nonsense.

Im talking about those jews who abide by the
Old Testement.

 

[Booko]

Im talking about those jews who abide by the
Old Testement.

AE is right though. Monotheism was not always the rule.

This being Wiki, I wouldn't exactly vouch for accuracy, but it's a start:

Henotheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[~Amin~]

AE is right though. Monotheism was not always the rule.

This being Wiki, I wouldn't exactly vouch for accuracy, but it's a start:

Are you saying that the jews that follow the Old testament arenot
monotheists? and if so which ones?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are you saying that the jews that follow the Old testament are not monotheists? and if so which ones?

You claimed: "They were always monotheistic ..." You're wrong.

 

[gnostic]

Im talking about those jews who abide by the
Old Testement.

Hebrews/Israelites/Jews or whatever you want to call them were always monotheistic, as the OT says they were always so. If you have read the books of Judges, Kings and Chronicles, the people had gone from faithful monotheists to polytheists.

The history of Hebrews are not certain because they didn't begin writing around Moses' time, or even later. Egyptian history doesn't confirm that the Israelites were ever existed as slaves in Egypt, let alone Moses leading them out of Egypt. There were one only reference of "Israel" in Egyptian text during the New Kingdom. On the stele of the Egyptian king of the 19th dynasty, Merneptah had destroyed Israel. It doesn't say much. It doesn't say if this destruction took place in Canaan or in the wilderness. It doesn't say if Israel believe in one god or many. We can neither confirm nor deny about the earliest existence of Hebrew monotheism, except through the works of Genesis and Exodus.

What we do know is that Canaanites believed in a god name El or Il, and that Elohim means more gods, not god. And this name (El) is recorded in clay tablets that are older than any writings of Hebrews/Israelites.

We also can't confirm any of writings in the Quran about Adam, Noah, Moses, etc. Sure, the writing confirm their existences (of prophets and patriarchs), but the Quran is writing in the 7th century AD, so therefore not useful as proof.

For any real confirmation of the bible's authenticity, the books or events in the narratives, should be able to verify from outside of biblical sources, either contemporary or close to that time. And for the time of before David and Solomon, we don't have that validation or verification.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hebrews/Israelites/Jews or whatever you want to call them were always monotheistic, as the OT says they were always so. If you have read the books of Judges, Kings and Chronicles, the people had gone from faithful monotheists to polytheists.

I'm not so sure of that. From what I've read of the Old Testament, everything still works if the Jews started off polytheistic, then became henotheistic (i.e. acknowledging the existence of many gods, but worshipping only one) with Elijah, and later became monotheistic.

 

[benign6]

Why Elohim?
Why is Hebrew word "Elohim" plural?

it's pleural-of-respect, pleural-of-majesty, as Royel "WE".

 

[sojourner]

it's pleural-of-respect, pleural-of-majesty, as Royel "WE".

That is a distinctly English construct, not used in ancient Semitic languages.
It refers to the "heavenly court."

 

[~Amin~]

You claimed: "They were always monotheistic ..." You're wrong.

Those people who accepted the message which God sent Moses, were
monotheists, this is my claim, but i asked a question and didnt get
an answer, if they werent who were they?

 

[~Amin~]

The history of Hebrews are not certain because they didn't begin writing around
What we do know is that Canaanites believed in a god name El or Il, and that Elohim means more gods, not god. And this name (El) is recorded in clay tablets that are older than any writings of Hebrews/Israelites.

Elohim DOES NOT mean god's, if you dont believe me why not ask a hebrew
speaking person who follows the Old testament?

We also can't confirm any of writings in the Quran about Adam, Noah, Moses, etc. Sure, the writing confirm their existences (of prophets and patriarchs), but the Quran is writing in the 7th century AD, so therefore not useful as proof.

Sorry dont get it proof for what?

 

[gnostic]

Sorry dont get it proof for what?

Proof in the narrative of the Torah. A number of events recorded in the Qur'an are even stranger and even less believable than what are found in Genesis and other books. The Qur'an seemed to embellish the original narratives even more.

Anyway, the Qur'an can't be used to prove any stories found in the books of the bible, because they were written in the same time. The Qur'an can't be used as the external source for any of the biblical events.

Elohim DOES NOT mean god's, if you dont believe me why not ask a hebrew
speaking person who follows the Old testament?

The suffix "-im" denotes plural.

I have mentioned in earlier posts of other plurals, used in regarding to angels.
Seraphim, as in plural for seraph angels, Cherubim, Ophanim, Erelim, Hashmallim, Malakhim, Ishim, etc. There are even groups of angels, called Elohim and Bene Elohim.

Let's not forget in Genesis 1:26, when god said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Who do you think god was referring to when he uses "our" and "us"? Does god to speak to himself (or to imaginary friend)?

Some people says that the use of "us", "our" or "we" is like using the royal pronouns. You should ask anyone who know ancient Hebrew, and they would tell you that this use of language doesn't exist. Such use of language was a modern conception.

 

[~Amin~]

Proof in the narrative of the Torah. A number of events recorded in the Qur'an are even stranger and even less believable than what are found in Genesis and other books. The Qur'an seemed to embellish the original narratives even more.

Anyway, the Qur'an can't be used to prove any stories found in the books of the bible, because they were written in the same time. The Qur'an can't be used as the external source for any of the biblical events.

Ive read books against the believers, and a few comments you have made
show me without doubt you have subtracted from them, to kow the reality
of something you shouldnt follow blindly, that also goes for the believers.

You have a right to your opinion, and so do i, for me the Qur'an is full
of proofs and evidence, that it is very accurate.

The suffix "-im" denotes plural.

I have mentioned in earlier posts of other plurals, used in regarding to angels.
Seraphim, as in plural for seraph angels, Cherubim, Ophanim, Erelim, Hashmallim, Malakhim, Ishim, etc. There are even groups of angels, called Elohim and Bene Elohim.

Let's not forget in Genesis 1:26, when god said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Who do you think god was referring to when he uses "our" and "us"? Does god to speak to himself (or to imaginary friend)?

Some people says that the use of "us", "our" or "we" is like using the royal pronouns. You should ask anyone who know ancient Hebrew, and they would tell you that this use of language doesn't exist. Such use of language was a modern conception.

You see because you dont believe in these books being from God
you interpret things literaly, but these Holy books contain many metaphores
and alagories, similitudes and analogies. if you like i could show you meaning
of these acording to the scholars who know the languadge and believe
in these books, and i promise your way off. Like i said challenge yourself
and find a hebrew speaking person who belives ONLY in the OT and you will see
what i mean.

 

[~Amin~]

Some people says that the use of "us", "our" or "we" is like using the royal pronouns.

NO all the people who folow ONLY the OT know this.

You should ask anyone who know ancient Hebrew, and they would tell you that this use of language doesn't exist. Such use of language was a modern conception.

You see there's 3 ways to interpret scripture, the first is the one you mentioned
linguistically, the second is the word in the context of the scripture, and the third
is the meaning by convention ie the ruling of the term.
Now even if in anciet Hebrew it means what your saying, it doesnt
mater, all these conditions have to be in place, why would i ask a
Hebrew speaking person about a mater in the OT when they dont believe
in it?
Would you go to a automobile sales man if your feeling sick? no you
would go to the doctor, likewise you gotta go to the people who believe
and know this mater.

 

[~Amin~]

it's pleural-of-respect, pleural-of-majesty, as Royel "WE".

Thank you.