Why Earth?

[The Sum of Awe]

Questions for all of you if you don't mind reading this whole post.



GOD & THE SUPERNATURAL

In our position of the galaxy (look where it says "Sun", that is our solar system, obviously we are much smaller):

how big do you think we are in the universe? Where do you think our place is in the universe (which is expanding rapidly).

Why would there be any soul inside a random, very small, primate on this random rock in a small part of a small part of a small galaxy? If that was the case, why not there be souls inside every atom in the universe? Every spec of dust on every rock (planet, star, asteroid, etc).

Why would God care about us if we are that small in the universe? Some will answer "God cares about everybody". Considering how large our universe is, we are smaller than dust to him, and I'm sure other life is too, why wouldn't God rather go for a much larger object than us? Why would God care, think about our place in the universe.

AFTERLIFE

We are all just dust and atoms. Sure we have consciousness, but that is just random brain activity which is triggered by our biological function which took billions of years to evolve this way (quite a bit of time)

Do dust or atoms get an afterlife? Does 'star stuff' get an afterlife? Why would we in that case?

If you are to say we have a soul, what exactly makes you think it leaves the body? If the soul is described as non-physical, that means it is similar to our mind (not the brain, the mind). Though the mind is created by brain functions, does it really move? Sure it may seem like your mind is in your head, but really it isn't. You just think that because you see out of your head, you are forgetting your other senses all around your body. So simply, consciousness is just the senses.

Anyway, does the mind move without biological functions? Does it really have a place without a body? Why would the soul move in that case

CONCLUSION

Humans are not special, humans are not unique, humans are nothing compared to the universe. Why would something smaller than an electron compared to the universe even matter? We are made of matter, but only dust particles and cosmic radiation.

Just even thinking "God watches us" or God did something on earth in flesh of a random primate is centralizing it.

Why would any supernatural, paranormal, spiritual, etc thing happen around this spec of dust but not ash in someone's ashtray, which we are much smaller than compared to the universe?

Also, some people claim there is furniture in heaven, human made furniture. Why would that be so? Do you know how much more small, meaningless, etc. that is?


Not trying to offend, it's a large, difficult to explain argument is all. I'm only asking in all respect.

 

[Sleeppy]

Everything isn't soul, but everything has spirit.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Everything isn't soul, but everything has spirit.

Everything? So I will be seeing that dust I walked on in the afterlife?

 

[Sleeppy]

It will exist, I don't know if you'll see it, or if it'll even be dust at that point.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Personally I do not believe in souls or spirit, nor do I believe in a 'god' that readily involves itself without our existence, if there is some god entity (as opposed to merely a force or event) then the deus otiosus ("idle god") model appeals to me.

There are however many different reasons why some concept for god might be in our existence, perhaps even in individual human lives, for example, it could be a good way to pass the time, or to learn things, or to obtain some sort of intangible benefit such as the fulfilment of egotist needs, or perhaps, after creating us for some unknown reason, that entity felt some degree of attachment or responsibility - who knows...

 

[Quintessence]

I had a lengthy reply to this started, but I think in its length, the main points were getting lost so instead I'm going to compose something terse.

The questions posed on the OP make some assumptions about the nature of key terms that aren't explicitly stated. It seems certain terms were being approached with classical monotheism in mind, but this way of thinking about things is somewhat alien to me. Because of that, I don't see most of these questions as any real challenge to my own religion. I don't view souls in the same way as most people in my culture do, nor do I view "god" in the same way most people in my culture do. I also reject the dualism between matter and spirit that dominates my culture.

However, I also reject an attitude towards the universe that strips it of all awe, wonder, purpose, and meaning. There was a prevailing attitude in the OP that was dismissive of the inherent sacredness I experience in the universe. It's why I call the universe "god" (though I typically use the term "deity" or "spirit"). The question of how "small" humanity is in relation to the divine (aka, the universe) is itself a source of that awe and wonder. Also inspiring awe and wonder is the realization how "big" humanity is in relation to some other aspects of the universe (consider the ecosystems of bacteria in your intestines! How cool is that?!).

At the same time, yes: the universe doesn't give a crap about humanity. The universe is an amoral, unemotional entity. However, more localized aspects of the universe certainly can (and do). I see little problem with the idea of aspects of the universe (particularly the otherworldly ones like the Christian god) favoring a small corner. In my experience, many deities/spirits have their power or area of influence tied to a local area and show favor on a very localized level. Keep in mind I work with the divine in a very animistic fashion, so working with deity is little different than interpersonal relationships in my religion. Asking "why would a deity bother to show me favor" is like asking "why would my colleague bother to show me favor." We're in the same space in the same time and we have a natural relationship with each other.

 

[chinu]

how big do you think we are in the universe? Where do you think our place is in the universe (which is expanding rapidly).
Why would there be any soul inside a random, very small, primate on this random rock in a small part of a small part of a small galaxy? If that was the case, why not there be souls inside every atom in the universe? Every spec of dust on every rock (planet, star, asteroid, etc).

Yes the soul is preasent inside every atom of this universe like a pure water in a sea.
Pure Water means: The water which is free from salt and all other impurities preasent in the water, And our position is much more smaller than the drop of impure water in the sea.

Why would God care about us if we are that small in the universe? Some will answer "God cares about everybody". Considering how large our universe is, we are smaller than dust to him, and I'm sure other life is too, why wouldn't God rather go for a much larger object than us? Why would God care, think about our place in the universe.

Its not the matter of big or small, its just the matter of love, As strong as is our love for god, as strong as is our care in this universe.
In this whole universe only we Human-beings are designed for: To think god, or to fall in love with god, Only we human's in this whole universe has this power to think about "God".

AFTERLIFE
We are all just dust and atoms. Sure we have consciousness, but that is just random brain activity which is triggered by our biological function which took billions of years to evolve this way (quite a bit of time)
Do dust or atoms get an afterlife? Does 'star stuff' get an afterlife? Why would we in that case?
If you are to say we have a soul, what exactly makes you think it leaves the body? If the soul is described as non-physical, that means it is similar to our mind (not the brain, the mind). Though the mind is created by brain functions, does it really move? Sure it may seem like your mind is in your head, but really it isn't. You just think that because you see out of your head, you are forgetting your other senses all around your body. So simply, consciousness is just the senses.

Soul is like a pure water, or we can say pure water is preasent in every atom of of the big sea, But mind is like a dirty water, different drops of dirty water have different types of impurities in different areas/body, which keeps on changing the bodies/areas while flowing in the sea.

Yes! firstly area/body is responsible for the impurites/mind in water/soul, but dirty water/impure water/mind also keeps on changing its area/body, and impurites/mind while flowing in the sea.

Anyway, does the mind move without biological functions?
Does it really have a place without a body? Why would the soul move in that case

Sometimes people die without any reason which docter cannot find out.
Example: One mother died just by listening the news -- that her son has fallen down from the fifth floor. (When docter's examined the dead body all parts of the body was ok)
Now in this case.. Brain died because of mind, or mind leaved the accompany with brain, as all the other parts of the body inculding brain were quit OK.

CONCLUSION

I think there is need to think again...
Best of luck.

Not trying to offend, it's a large, difficult to explain argument is all. I'm only asking in all respect.

Keep it up.. Chinu like this.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would agree that Humans are not any more special than any other life anywhere in the universe.

I would agree that there is nothing special about our world, or our particular part of the universe

I would agree that life itself is special, that it is God given, that it is the essence of God within all life.

God does not watch us, he is part of us, he is that part we call our soul. He is in all life, everywhere.

When Life dies, "Soul remains" it remains God's essence. It is neither body nor mind.

There is no reason to believe our memory of, or concept of self continues beyond death.

It is unknown if soul has distinct and individual memory, or even why it might need that ability.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Personally I do not believe in souls or spirit, nor do I believe in a 'god' that readily involves itself without our existence, if there is some god entity (as opposed to merely a force or event) then the deus otiosus ("idle god") model appeals to me.

There are however many different reasons why some concept for god might be in our existence, perhaps even in individual human lives, for example, it could be a good way to pass the time, or to learn things, or to obtain some sort of intangible benefit such as the fulfilment of egotist needs, or perhaps, after creating us for some unknown reason, that entity felt some degree of attachment or responsibility - who knows...

Well why create us this small? Why create us in this place in the universe?

Why aren't we bigger than the galaxy? Why aren't we the only species on the planet bigger than the galaxy? Why isn't that galaxy planet in the center of the universe and extremely large, the only galaxy in existence?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I had a lengthy reply to this started, but I think in its length, the main points were getting lost so instead I'm going to compose something terse.

The questions posed on the OP make some assumptions about the nature of key terms that aren't explicitly stated. It seems certain terms were being approached with classical monotheism in mind, but this way of thinking about things is somewhat alien to me. Because of that, I don't see most of these questions as any real challenge to my own religion. I don't view souls in the same way as most people in my culture do, nor do I view "god" in the same way most people in my culture do. I also reject the dualism between matter and spirit that dominates my culture.

It's to any God, even if you think trees are God.

However, I also reject an attitude towards the universe that strips it of all awe, wonder, purpose, and meaning. There was a prevailing attitude in the OP that was dismissive of the inherent sacredness I experience in the universe. It's why I call the universe "god" (though I typically use the term "deity" or "spirit"). The question of how "small" humanity is in relation to the divine (aka, the universe) is itself a source of that awe and wonder. Also inspiring awe and wonder is the realization how "big" humanity is in relation to some other aspects of the universe (consider the ecosystems of bacteria in your intestines! How cool is that?!).

If that is true wouldn't you want to avoid every spec of a dust particle so you don't hurt it?

At the same time, yes: the universe doesn't give a crap about humanity. The universe is an amoral, unemotional entity. However, more localized aspects of the universe certainly can (and do). I see little problem with the idea of aspects of the universe (particularly the otherworldly ones like the Christian god) favoring a small corner. In my experience, many deities/spirits have their power or area of influence tied to a local area and show favor on a very localized level. Keep in mind I work with the divine in a very animistic fashion, so working with deity is little different than interpersonal relationships in my religion. Asking "why would a deity bother to show me favor" is like asking "why would my colleague bother to show me favor." We're in the same space in the same time and we have a natural relationship with each other.

If a deity is like someone you know, then that is egocentric itself. If God cares about us it must certainly care about every atom, every electron, everything smaller than that. You can't imagine how many of those there are in the universe.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Its not the matter of big or small, its just the matter of love, As strong as is our love for god, as strong as is our care in this universe.
In this whole universe only we Human-beings are designed for: To think god, or to fall in love with god, Only we human's in this whole universe has this power to think about "God".

That's very egocentric for us being a spec of dust.

Size does matter if it is .000000000000000000001 of a half of a quarter of an inch compared to 999999+ of an inch, and that is only our galaxy. In fact we are probably even smaller than that in our galaxy.

Soul is like a pure water, or we can say pure water is preasent in every atom of of the big sea, But mind is like a dirty water, different drops of dirty water have different types of impurities in different areas/body, which keeps on changing the bodies/areas while flowing in the sea.

You know that water is a very small portion of the universe also, right?

Yes! firstly area/body is responsible for the impurites/mind in water/soul, but dirty water/impure water/mind also keeps on changing its area/body, and impurites/mind while flowing in the sea.

Hmm?

Sometimes people die without any reason which docter cannot find out.
Example: One mother died just by listening the news -- that her son has fallen down from the fifth floor. (When docter's examined the dead body all parts of the body was ok)
Now in this case.. Brain died because of mind, or mind leaved the accompany with brain, as all the other parts of the body inculding brain were quit OK.

That can't happen, you don't die from that.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I would agree that Humans are not any more special than any other life anywhere in the universe.

I would agree that there is nothing special about our world, or our particular part of the universe

I would agree that life itself is special, that it is God given, that it is the essence of God within all life.

God does not watch us, he is part of us, he is that part we call our soul. He is in all life, everywhere.

When Life dies, "Soul remains" it remains God's essence. It is neither body nor mind.

There is no reason to believe our memory of, or concept of self continues beyond death.

It is unknown if soul has distinct and individual memory, or even why it might need that ability.

So even in trees? Grass? Atomic bacteria? Should I get even smaller?

I see what you're saying, and it's a good argument I'll say, because you aren't picking earth to being the greatest.

Though, if life was the thing that had a soul - why are there more nonliving objects than living?

 

[Madhuri]

From the perspective of Hinduism:

The Vedas and Upanishads dispel all these questions.

Also, consciousness is not just the senses. Consciousness is a point of being from which awareness grows. Not the best definition, I know, but consciousness is the point from which sense perception is possible. It is a point of perception. From that point of perception you may experience with your senses, you may also perceive without your physical senses.

If you want to start answering those questions from a religious philosophical perspective, consider this: everything is God. And what is God or what is a major aspect of God? Consciousness/intelligence.

Now start answering your questions.

"Why would God care about us if we are that small in the universe?"

God is the universe, God is every part of the universe. God literally cares about every single existing thing.

Another thing to think about is that Soul is associated with Consciousness or sentience. Soul is what comes and goes from a body.

"Do dust or atoms get an afterlife? Does 'star stuff' get an afterlife? Why would we in that case?"

Are atoms sentient? Does star dust have consciousness? If not, it serves a different function than that of the soul. Again, everything is an aspect of God. A soul is one aspect, atoms are another.

"If you are to say we have a soul, what exactly makes you think it leaves the body?"

Depends what you think a soul is and what it's function is. A soul is generally defined as a thing that is eternal. Since the body is not eternal, the eternal soul cannot be permanently 'within' the body. Obviously, if it exists, it does not stay with the body.
PS: The soul and mind are not the same thing. In fact, Easter philosophies generally consider them to be very different things.

"Humans are not special, humans are not unique, humans are nothing compared to the universe. Why would something smaller than an electron compared to the universe even matter? We are made of matter, but only dust particles and cosmic radiation."

Humans don't, souls do. Souls exist everywhere, not just Earth. 'We' human bodies are made of matter, the real 'we', soul, is not. Do not get the two mixed up.

Another point. Space is very insignificant in this religion. All of existence is said to exist in the Self. Seeing it as outside of ourself or separate is an illusion. Even the universe as we perceive it is insignificant compared to the infinite number of universes, the infinite amount of life and diversity of life.

I'm not stating that these things are true, but if you want to know how some religions answer these questions, then Hinduism is generally full of answers.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So even in trees? Grass? Atomic bacteria? Should I get even smaller?

Why not ? it is not for us to set limits.

I see what you're saying, and it's a good argument I'll say, because you aren't picking earth to being the greatest.

On the scale of things we hardly register. But we certainly qualify.

Though, if life was the thing that had a soul - why are there more nonliving objects than living?

We are all made of and depend on, star dust; with out the destruction of earlier generations of stars we would not have the elements that make up our being.
There is a distinction between the animate and inanimate, and that is life itself.

Some believe that a planet's "collective life force" is a god.
But whilst "Soul" might be able to operate collectively, we have no evidence of this.
Following this thought to a conclusion, would indicate that there would be as many gods as there are living planets. This would counter the argument that there is one God, the creator of the universe.

 

[Quintessence]

If that is true wouldn't you want to avoid every spec of a dust particle so you don't hurt it?

No, because change is a fundamental quality of the universe. What people call "birth" and "death" are two words for the exact same process: transformation. The universe knowns only exchanges of matter and energy.

If a deity is like someone you know, then that is egocentric itself. If God cares about us it must certainly care about every atom, every electron, everything smaller than that.

Why? Are you suggesting that in order for me to care about my own parents I have to concern myself with the fate of the elements that their bodies are composed of? Isn't this a silly question?

Concern for something doesn't have to transcend all levels of organization. Some aspects of the divine/universe don't give a crap about the level of organization that includes humans. Some aspects do. It's not an all-or-nothing deal. Why should it be? I don't adhere to a theology that demands it.

 

[Jainarayan]

Another point. Space is very insignificant in this religion. All of existence is said to exist in the Self. Seeing it as outside of ourself or separate is an illusion. Even the universe as we perceive it is insignificant compared to the infinite number of universes, the infinite amount of life and diversity of life.

Hindus believe this was revealed milennia ago by Sri Krishna, when He opened His mouth as a toddler to show His mother all of existence within Him. Now, even if someone pooh-poohs the story as mythology that a toddler could show His mother all of existence within Him, if there were any element of fantasy, who knew milennia ago anything about the universe? And there are references in ancient Hindu scriptures (actually I think in the Rig Veda, not sure where I saw it) to other universes. Who could know for milennia BCE what modern theoretical physicists are now positing?

J. B. S. Haldane, in Possible Worlds and Other Papers (1927), p. 286: "The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." Arthur Stanley Eddington - Wikiquote

 

[The Sum of Awe]

From the perspective of Hinduism:

The Vedas and Upanishads dispel all these questions.

Also, consciousness is not just the senses. Consciousness is a point of being from which awareness grows. Not the best definition, I know, but consciousness is the point from which sense perception is possible. It is a point of perception. From that point of perception you may experience with your senses, you may also perceive without your physical senses.

But your senses make you aware, without any senses you are not aware anymore.

What are nonphysical senses? (Perceiving emotional senses as illusionary)


"Why would God care about us if we are that small in the universe?"

God is the universe, God is every part of the universe. God literally cares about every single existing thing.

Why make anything smaller or weaker than another then? Why doesn't everything have consciousness?

Another thing to think about is that Soul is associated with Consciousness or sentience. Soul is what comes and goes from a body.

So everything has a soul unless it is unconscious?

Are atoms sentient? Does star dust have consciousness? If not, it serves a different function than that of the soul. Again, everything is an aspect of God. A soul is one aspect, atoms are another.

So why put souls in some things if they are different aspects?

Depends what you think a soul is and what it's function is. A soul is generally defined as a thing that is eternal. Since the body is not eternal, the eternal soul cannot be permanently 'within' the body. Obviously, if it exists, it does not stay with the body.
PS: The soul and mind are not the same thing. In fact, Easter philosophies generally consider them to be very different things.

I didn't mean they are the same thing, but they'd be similar; invisible, untouchable, etc. Only the one who has it knows it exists.

How does it leave the body though?

Humans don't, souls do. Souls exist everywhere, not just Earth. 'We' human bodies are made of matter, the real 'we', soul, is not. Do not get the two mixed up.

Fine with me.

Another point. Space is very insignificant in this religion. All of existence is said to exist in the Self. Seeing it as outside of ourself or separate is an illusion. Even the universe as we perceive it is insignificant compared to the infinite number of universes, the infinite amount of life and diversity of life.

How does it exist within the self? Is that metaphorical?

I'm not stating that these things are true, but if you want to know how some religions answer these questions, then Hinduism is generally full of answers.

M'kay.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

We are all made of and depend on, star dust; with out the destruction of earlier generations of stars we would not have the elements that make up our being.

But God didn't really need them if he can do anything.

How are you sure there is no life in the universe not made of star dust?

Some believe that a planet's "collective life force" is a god.
But whilst "Soul" might be able to operate collectively, we have no evidence of this.
Following this thought to a conclusion, would indicate that there would be as many gods as there are living planets. This would counter the argument that there is one God, the creator of the universe.

Why would that be God? Anything could have life on it, even if it's not a planet, we just look for the big, not the microscopic, and that's why we don't see any.

I'm not talking about aliens, they are probably just as unimportant as we are to the universe, I'm speaking of all animate things in the universe (beyond imagination in largeness)

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why? Are you suggesting that in order for me to care about my own parents I have to concern myself with the fate of the elements that their bodies are composed of? Isn't this a silly question?

No, you're talking about fellow humans who obviously exist on the same planet as you do, not supernatural or metaphysical objects.

Concern for something doesn't have to transcend all levels of organization. Some aspects of the divine/universe don't give a crap about the level of organization that includes humans. Some aspects do. It's not an all-or-nothing deal. Why should it be? I don't adhere to a theology that demands it.

If it's not an 'all' deal why call it God?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Hindus believe this was revealed milennia ago by Sri Krishna, when He opened His mouth as a toddler to show His mother all of existence within Him. Now, even if someone pooh-poohs the story as mythology that a toddler could show His mother all of existence within Him, if there were any element of fantasy, who knew milennia ago anything about the universe? And there are references in ancient Hindu scriptures (actually I think in the Rig Veda, not sure where I saw it) to other universes. Who could know for milennia BCE what modern theoretical physicists are now positing?

So a God can be a toddler, has a mouth, isn't that human-like? Thus seems very more unlikely.