Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[uss_bigd]

Where does Christ say they were supposed to be the last? All you have shown me so far is one verse that starts off with "I think." Hardly a convincing statment. Where as I have given you a verse that most definatly states God will always have prophets at some time or another on the Earth.

Let us read the start of the whole chapter shall we?

1 Cor 4:1

"So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. "

If Paul isn't convincing to you, read the verse above and see again how you OUGHT to regard him.

1 Cor 4:2-4

"Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord

Paul said he those peole who were entrusted must be found faithfull, because they are judged by the Lord himself.

1 Cor 4:5

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

He was declaring a statement of faith, the he must be trusted as he assured God will bring the hidden things of darkness to light. He was declaring he was clean and his conscience is clean.

1 Cor 4:6-7


"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"

Paul refused to receive any compliment for the teachings he wrote he said i will not boast of things as if i did not receive them he was bringing the glory up to God. and explicitly instructs not to think of men above that which is written.

After all these declaration of his stewardship, that he is judged by God, that he will not brag about what he received. he then states:

1 Cor 4:8-9

"Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.


Now, do you dare say again that Paul made a "hardly" convincing statement? Don't answer me anymore, you are not accountable to me as i said, you are accoutable to your own conscience.
Have a Good night sir, God Bless!

 

[uss_bigd]

I agree with all those scriptures.

uhuh? so is this with the exception of 1 Cor 4:9?

 

[Sola'lor]

uhuh? so is this with the exception of 1 Cor 4:9?

I have no problem agreeing with what He said. I just interpret it differently than you do.

 

[uss_bigd]

I have no problem agreeing with what He said. I just interpret it differently than you do.

How were you able to interpret it to mean that the apostles weren't the last? When it explicitly stated last?

1 Corinthians 4:9 (New International Version)


For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men.

(ESV)
"For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men.

(castillian)

9 Pienso a veces que a nosotros, los apóstoles, Dios nos ha puesto a la cola de un desfile triunfal, como si fuésemos enemigos vencidos, reos de muerte que marchan camino del cadalso y que son vistos por todo el mundo como un espectáculo: por los ángeles y por los hombres.

 

[Charity]

Please explain to me the Mormon doctrine on marriage in Heaven..... I have heard of several different beliefs you have on this, and I am curious to know just what you do practice.



Please explain about the ritual that takes place concerning the covering of a body after death, and why it is usually done by the family, or at least that is what I've heard is this a required ritual, or a family practice?

Is there still the practice in the church about being allowed to drink certain types of soft drinks and certain types are denied?

Why do we not hear much about the angel.' Moroni, wasn't he the angel who was suppose to have appeared to Joseph Smith?

Is it true that in order to have a marriage blessed you have to go to Salt Lake City or isn't there one other temple? And why would this make any difference one way or another if your didn't have a wedding blessed....Isn't God able to sanctify marriage anyplace?

It may indeed give us some answers as to why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as valid.........

Why do we need a "companion" for the Holy Bible? I believe that it tells us everything we need to know....I can't think of a thing that the book of Mormon could tell me that my Bible hasn't ......

Does the Mormon church believe in the Trinity?

How do you relate to the book of Acts? Do you believe in the Baptism of Fire and The Holy Ghost? Do you believe in Holiness? Sanctification? Do you believe in baptism for people who are already deceased?


Do you all see any coralation in the Children of Israel and the Promise Land and the Mormons journey to find their place of refuge, when led by Brigham Young?

Do you take sacraments or partake in what some churches call the Lord's supper?

Just would like to know these answers, sorry didn't mean to throw so much to you at once........:thud: Thanks and I am looking forward to your replies.

 

[SoyLeche]

Please explain to me the Mormon doctrine on marriage in Heaven..... I have heard of several different beliefs you have on this, and I am curious to know just what you do practice.



Please explain about the ritual that takes place concerning the covering of a body after death, and why it is usually done by the family, or at least that is what I've heard is this a required ritual, or a family practice?

Is there still the practice in the church about being allowed to drink certain types of soft drinks and certain types are denied?

Why do we not hear much about the angel.' Moroni, wasn't he the angel who was suppose to have appeared to Joseph Smith?

Is it true that in order to have a marriage blessed you have to go to Salt Lake City or isn't there one other temple? And why would this make any difference one way or another if your didn't have a wedding blessed....Isn't God able to sanctify marriage anyplace?

It may indeed give us some answers as to why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as valid.........

Why do we need a "companion" for the Holy Bible? I believe that it tells us everything we need to know....I can't think of a thing that the book of Mormon could tell me that my Bible hasn't ......

Does the Mormon church believe in the Trinity?

How do you relate to the book of Acts? Do you believe in the Baptism of Fire and The Holy Ghost? Do you believe in Holiness? Sanctification? Do you believe in baptism for people who are already deceased?


Do you all see any coralation in the Children of Israel and the Promise Land and the Mormons journey to find their place of refuge, when led by Brigham Young?

Do you take sacraments or partake in what some churches call the Lord's supper?

Just would like to know these answers, sorry didn't mean to throw so much to you at once........:thud: Thanks and I am looking forward to your replies.

If you start a thread on the topic I'm sure most of us would be more than happy to discuss it.

 

[Katzpur]

Please explain to me the Mormon doctrine on marriage in Heaven..... I have heard of several different beliefs you have on this, and I am curious to know just what you do practice.

I started a thread on this a long, long time ago. I'll have to see if I can find it for you. Very briefly, since I don't have time to go into detail right now, we believe that a man and woman can be married not only for this life but for all of eternity. This ceremony (called a "sealing") takes place in our temples and is done by a person who holds the God-given authority to bind in heaven that which is bound on earth.

Please explain about the ritual that takes place concerning the covering of a body after death, and why it is usually done by the family, or at least that is what I've heard is this a required ritual, or a family practice?

The only thing I can think you might be referring to is that individuals who are "endowed" (meaning that they have participated in a particular temple ceremony) are generally buried in their temple clothing.

Is there still the practice in the church about being allowed to drink certain types of soft drinks and certain types are denied?

We have a health code which forbids alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee. Some individuals believe (although it is not expressly stated) that tea and coffee are forbidden because of the caffeine they contain. These individuals also abstain from drinking caffeinated soft drinks. Myself -- I pretty much live on Diet Coke.

Why do we not hear much about the angel.' Moroni, wasn't he the angel who was suppose to have appeared to Joseph Smith?

That's right, he was. If you were to attend an LDS worship service, you might hear him mentioned.

Is it true that in order to have a marriage blessed you have to go to Salt Lake City or isn't there one other temple?

There are at least 130 temples worldwide. A marriage in any one of them has the same validity as a marriage in another.

And why would this make any difference one way or another if your didn't have a wedding blessed....Isn't God able to sanctify marriage anyplace?

It's a matter of authority held by the individual presiding over the marriage, and of covenants made only in the temple.

Why do we need a "companion" for the Holy Bible? I believe that it tells us everything we need to know....I can't think of a thing that the book of Mormon could tell me that my Bible hasn't ......

To me, it's not so much that we "need" the Book of Mormon, but that it does, in fact, clarify certain doctrines that are merely alluded to in the Bible. I guess it's kind of like saying, why do you need Mark if you have Luke? Why do you need John if you have Matthew?

Does the Mormon church believe in the Trinity?

Not in the same way traditional Christianity does. We believe in God the Eternal Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost, but understand their relationship somewhat differently than you do. Again, I'll try to find an old thread of mine that explains it.

How do you relate to the book of Acts?

How do we relate to it? If you mean, do we believe it to be God's word, then yes.

Do you believe in the Baptism of Fire and The Holy Ghost? Do you believe in Holiness? Sanctification?

Yes.

Do you believe in baptism for people who are already deceased?

Yes, we practice proxy baptisms on behalf of our deceased ancestors.

Do you all see any coralation in the Children of Israel and the Promise Land and the Mormons journey to find their place of refuge, when led by Brigham Young?

I'd have to give that one some thought.

Do you take sacraments or partake in what some churches call the Lord's supper?

Yes.

Just would like to know these answers, sorry didn't mean to throw so much to you at once........:thud: Thanks and I am looking forward to your replies.

No problem. It might be worthwhile to start a new thread, though.

 

[Charity]

I thought this might be a perfect place to ask these questions since it was titled "Why don't Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as valid.........Unless they realize what it says and what some of your beliefs are, how would they know.

I really appreciate you answering those questions for me. The family of a guy that I dated when I was 16 sent the Elders to my house for some classes since they were Mormon. I couldn't remember the answers to those questions I posted because so many years have passed....

I am not a LDS, but I like hearing others tell their beliefs...

Thank you so very much, I have read many of your posts and I enjoy your honesty and the fact that even when you disagree with others you are just purrrrrrr fect (naturally I have to tease with you) No you really are perfectly sweet, and seem so honest. I really appreciate you. I feel like you add a lot to the forum


Thank you again Blessings from Charity

 

[Sola'lor]

Katzpur already answered but I'll try my hand too.

Please explain to me the Mormon doctrine on marriage in Heaven..... I have heard of several different beliefs you have on this, and I am curious to know just what you do practice.

First we believe there are three different dgrees of Heaven, The Celestial, Terrestrial, and telestial. The Celestial is the Highest where God resides. Inside the Celestial there are three levels. People can make it to the lower two levels of the Celestial kingdom who are not married. But in order to reach the highest degree a person must be married. But in order for this marriage to be applicable it must be sealed in the Temple. A civil marriage if until death. A temple marriage which is sealed by the priesthood is for not only time but for eternity.

Please explain about the ritual that takes place concerning the covering of a body after death, and why it is usually done by the family, or at least that is what I've heard is this a required ritual, or a family practice?

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Of course I've nev er had a close relative die so I'm not sure.

Is there still the practice in the church about being allowed to drink certain types of soft drinks and certain types are denied?

There is no doctrinal health code against soft drinks. although we are commanded to refrain from drinking alcohol, coffee, and tea. Some members take the idea that th reason coffee is not allowed is because of the caffeine and will not drink soft drinks that have caffeine. I actively try to avoid any soft drinks with caffeine but I have had them before.

Why do we not hear much about the angel.' Moroni, wasn't he the angel who was suppose to have appeared to Joseph Smith?

Do you mean in the our church or in the Bible? We believe Moroni to be that angel mentionedin Revelations that flew proclaiming the word of God. Other than that Moroni wasn't a Biblical angel. He fulfilled his duties after His appearances to Joseph Smith.

Is it true that in order to have a marriage blessed you have to go to Salt Lake City or isn't there one other temple? And why would this make any difference one way or another if your didn't have a wedding blessed....Isn't God able to sanctify marriage anyplace?

As I mentioned before in order for a marriage to be sealed in Heaven it must be sealed in the temple with the preisthood authority. THere are several ways this is done. The preferred method is to have the marriage and sealing in the same ceremony in the temple. Sometimes a couple will be married outside the temple and then later be sealed together in the Temple. Or if a couple has died a temple sealing can be performed vicariously.

But sealing is different than blessing. A sealing binds the family together and is recoginzed as a marriage in Heaven. A marriage recieving blessings from God isn't dependant upon sealings or religion.

There are over 100 temples around the world.

It may indeed give us some answers as to why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as valid.........

Why do we need a "companion" for the Holy Bible? I believe that it tells us everything we need to know....I can't think of a thing that the book of Mormon could tell me that my Bible hasn't ......

The Book of Mormon isn't about creating new things but about confirming. There are so many different interpretations of the Bible and no one can really tell what is actually meant. With the Book of Mormon we can see what Christ talked about to another group of people completely seperate from those in the Jerusalem. We can read what Christ told those people in the Book of Mormon and more easily understand what was meant in the Bible.

Some people compare it to a sign with one nail in it. The sign can twist and rotate easily. But with the addition of another nail it can resist greater twisting and rotation.

I would prefer to have as much of the word of God as possible rather than working with the bare minimum. That's why I like to explore the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Does the Mormon church believe in the Trinity?

We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are distinct indivduals with their own bodies(or personage in the case of the Holy Ghost) They are not one being or one spirit or one body. But they are one in purpose. They are so perfectly unified in their purpose that when you see Christ you have seen the Father. Anything Christ does that is what the Father would have done.

How do you relate to the book of Acts?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Sice we believe the Bible we believe the Book fo Acts.

Do you believe in the Baptism of Fire and The Holy Ghost? Do you believe in Holiness? Sanctification?

Yes we believe in these.

Do you believe in baptism for people who are already deceased?

Yes we believe all people will be ressurected so we do practice this.

Do you all see any coralation in the Children of Israel and the Promise Land and the Mormons journey to find their place of refuge, when led by Brigham Young?

I suppose you could draw some correlation between these. But I've never really heard it mentioned or any emphasis placed on it.

Do you take sacraments or partake in what some churches call the Lord's supper?

Every sunday we partake of bread and water in remembrance of Christ and our covenants with God.

Just would like to know these answers, sorry didn't mean to throw so much to you at once........:thud: Thanks and I am looking forward to your replies.

There you go!

 

[OutOfTime]

i think you guys should take a listen to this radioshow:

2008-01-19-space.mp3

he talks about mormonism and joseph smith. The show isn't really about religion, just ties it in. this episode though...he shows how mormonism is seperate from christianity and almost a cult. he talks about some other stuff at the beginning btw but u sorta have to listen to that to understand where he's coming from.

 

[Katzpur]

i think you guys should take a listen to this radioshow:

2008-01-19-space.mp3

he talks about mormonism and joseph smith. The show isn't really about religion, just ties it in. this episode though...he shows how mormonism is seperate from christianity and almost a cult. he talks about some other stuff at the beginning btw but u sorta have to listen to that to understand where he's coming from.

And of course you believed him. May I ask why?

 

[OutOfTime]

i did some googling too. can never be 100% sure of course. i like how their beliefs have rules...celibacy, no alcohol etc.

but you can't knock me until you listen either

he's not knocking the followers of the religion, just explores the origins and such connections

 

[uss_bigd]

i did some googling too. can never be 100% sure of course. i like how their beliefs have rules...celibacy, no alcohol etc.

but you can't knock me until you listen either

he's not knocking the followers of the religion, just explores the origins and such connections

With all fairness to the Mormons, Voluntary celibacy and no alcohol is 100% backed by genuine complete biblical scriptures.

 

[uss_bigd]

i think you guys should take a listen to this radioshow:

2008-01-19-space.mp3

he talks about mormonism and joseph smith. The show isn't really about religion, just ties it in. this episode though...he shows how mormonism is seperate from christianity and almost a cult. he talks about some other stuff at the beginning btw but u sorta have to listen to that to understand where he's coming from.

I think Mormons are closer to being Christian that say catholics ... therefore catholics are more "cultish":yes:

 

[DeepShadow]

i think you guys should take a listen to this radioshow:

2008-01-19-space.mp3

Wow, thanks! That was hilarious!

Katzpur, Comp, Jonny, everyone, you've GOT to listen to this show! The guy goes on and on about the Illuminati who control everything and are going to give the world to Satan. It's the funniest thing I've heard in years. He does dramatic pauses like he went to the William Shatner school of radio drama, and he keeps drawing meaningless connections like they have some sort of hidden meaning. I betcha he's great at six degrees of separation.

For example, he claims that Joseph Smith died at the age of 39, which is three times thirteen! Da da dumm!!

Next, the Mormon church owns Mariott hotel chain (they don't). A Mariott hotel was destroyed along with the World Trade Center, at the corner of Liberty and West. West supposedly means "death" in the ancient Egyptian mystery religion, while "liberty" is (NOT) another name for Ishtar (the Persian/Iranian fertility goddess). He claims "liberty" started as a nautical term (it didn't) meaning free reign on land, in exchange for abject servitude on board ship. Oh, and another Mariott hotel used in a terrorist attack was in Jakarta, where scores were killed by a car bomb (da da DUMM!).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Two can play at that game. Like we're not supposed to know that the name of his radio show (View From Space) is another name for the Bootes Void, the bottomless pit that represented Hell for Kabbalist witchcraft? And his name "Gary Bell" is connected to Apollyon, the angel of the bottomless pit in Revelations?

ROTFLMHO!

 

[Mister Emu]

I think Mormons are closer to being Christian that say catholics ...

Care to explain why Catholics are not Christians in another thread?

 

[uss_bigd]

Care to explain why Catholics are not Christians in another thread?

sure sir...

 

[Mister Emu]

Thank you.

 

[DeepShadow]

He claims "liberty" started as a nautical term (it didn't) meaning free reign on land, in exchange for abject servitude on board ship.

For all you who were wondering out there, the online etymology dictionary claims that the word "liberty" to mean "freedom" predates the nautical term by almost three hundred years.

But of course, anything that disagrees with Gary Bell must be under the control of the Illuminati. Makes you wonder how he can trust his own reference materials.

 

[England my lionheart]

Last night there was a knock on the front door and when i opened it i knew before they even spoke that they were Mormon and i said i am busy and in the middle of a telephone call and thanks but i am not interested.
The two young Men said they just wanted to tell me about their family bt i insisted i must go back in to continue my call and bade them goodbye.
I know all i need to know of this religion and it would have been a waste of time for these two polite young Men but why do they always look the same its a dead giveaway.
I am not a fan of any religion but have no problem with this religion as it does no harm that i know of except that town in the USA where people are haveing more than one wife poor things,well they would be poor if they had more than one like my wife she shops for England LOL.