Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[tth1119]

This question is asked more than anything else it seems, in one form or another. The most popular being "if God loves us, why does he make us suffer so much?" My way of seeing it, is did you ever learn a lesson from being rewarded? In all seriousness, did you? Or did you have to go through a hard time to see that you won't do that again, and to understand what you did wrong? When so many bad things are going on in the world, people want to blame God, they are doing the wrong thing to blame God, they need to blame themselves, and finally really learn from their mistakes. Everyone is in control of their own self, and that is all there is to it. A big lesson most people still have to learn is to stop passing blame, rather it be to God or any person on Earth. All of the suffering is a natural part of humans evolving into understanding how to change, it isn't just going to happen overnight, and no higher being is going to make it disappear. You have to make it disappear by changing it, and learning, so eventually once everyone learns, things will finally turn around for the good of humanity.

 

[Serenity7855]

Yeah, I would be ashamed to let people know where I get nonsense like that from too! Do you even read that trash before you post it? No you don't!

"HOW SATAN BECAME THE DEVIL"
v4 "AND HE BECAME SATAN, yea, even the devil"

I'm not ashamed of that which is true. I feel no shame in hearing words that testify of our loving and caring God.

I'm done with this thread. You should really find someone to help you understand the Bible, you're not doing to good on your own!

Yes, I bet you are are done with it. The truth can cut to the very bone when it is manifested to those who allowed themselves to be deceived. Your motives are all to obvious to one who has repeatedly read your book. That was not the only scripture that i quoted, although that is the impression that you are are trying to make.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

This question is asked more than anything else it seems, in one form or another. The most popular being "if God loves us, why does he make us suffer so much?" My way of seeing it, is did you ever learn a lesson from being rewarded? In all seriousness, did you? Or did you have to go through a hard time to see that you won't do that again, and to understand what you did wrong? When so many bad things are going on in the world, people want to blame God, they are doing the wrong thing to blame God, they need to blame themselves, and finally really learn from their mistakes. Everyone is in control of their own self, and that is all there is to it. A big lesson most people still have to learn is to stop passing blame, rather it be to God or any person on Earth. All of the suffering is a natural part of humans evolving into understanding how to change, it isn't just going to happen overnight, and no higher being is going to make it disappear. You have to make it disappear by changing it, and learning, so eventually once everyone learns, things will finally turn around for the good of humanity.

This is so true, and it started in the garden with Adam,

Genesis 3:9-13 (ESV Strong's) 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

 

[Serenity7855]

This movie has pride of place in my movie collection. That particular argument is nearing the end of the film. What is being said here contains more than what you would immediately understand, unless you are an endowed member of the Mormon church. It is all what satan actually believes and thinks is going to happen. But what you may not know is that the maker of the movie is a Mormon. What you are listening to is Mormon Doctrine. Some of the attire worn by Al Pacino and the words that he spoke would only be known by an endowed member.

 

[Serenity7855]

This is so true, and it started in the garden with Adam,

Genesis 3:9-13 (ESV Strong's) 9 But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Just in reading this it is abundantly clear that you have been indoctrinated by false doctrines. You need to be reading from the inspired word of God, that is, The King James Authorised Version is the only bible that I believe can be trusted.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, I bet you are are done with it. The truth can cut to the very bone when it is manifested to those who allowed themselves to be decieved. Your motives are all to obvious to one who has repeatedly read your book. That was not the only scripture that i quoted, although that is the impression that you are are trying to make.

What if you're the one being deceived?
How would you even know?

 

[SkepticThinker]

This question is asked more than anything else it seems, in one form or another. The most popular being "if God loves us, why does he make us suffer so much?" My way of seeing it, is did you ever learn a lesson from being rewarded? In all seriousness, did you? Or did you have to go through a hard time to see that you won't do that again, and to understand what you did wrong? When so many bad things are going on in the world, people want to blame God, they are doing the wrong thing to blame God, they need to blame themselves, and finally really learn from their mistakes. Everyone is in control of their own self, and that is all there is to it. A big lesson most people still have to learn is to stop passing blame, rather it be to God or any person on Earth. All of the suffering is a natural part of humans evolving into understanding how to change, it isn't just going to happen overnight, and no higher being is going to make it disappear. You have to make it disappear by changing it, and learning, so eventually once everyone learns, things will finally turn around for the good of humanity.

If someone harms me in some way, that's not their fault and I shouldn't blame them for it? Is that what you mean?

 

[Serenity7855]

What if you're the one being deceived?
How would you even know?

That is true, however, I covered that eventuality in my post when I said " when it is manifested to those who allowed themselves to be deceived"

 

[Serenity7855]

This question is asked more than anything else it seems, in one form or another. The most popular being "if God loves us, why does he make us suffer so much?" My way of seeing it, is did you ever learn a lesson from being rewarded? In all seriousness, did you? Or did you have to go through a hard time to see that you won't do that again, and to understand what you did wrong? When so many bad things are going on in the world, people want to blame God, they are doing the wrong thing to blame God, they need to blame themselves, and finally really learn from their mistakes. Everyone is in control of their own self, and that is all there is to it. A big lesson most people still have to learn is to stop passing blame, rather it be to God or any person on Earth. All of the suffering is a natural part of humans evolving into understanding how to change, it isn't just going to happen overnight, and no higher being is going to make it disappear. You have to make it disappear by changing it, and learning, so eventually once everyone learns, things will finally turn around for the good of humanity.

It is always very refreshing to read posts like yours that manifest the truth of God. Especially when you read it without finding any false beliefs and inaccuracy. Brilliant and very uplifting.

 

[First Baseman]

 

[SkepticThinker]

That is true, however, I covered that eventuality in my post when I said " when it is manifested to those who allowed themselves to be deceived"

How does that cover it?

 

[Serenity7855]

I lack belief in god(s). Period.

Yes, you have made that clear.

The same amount of compelling evidence exists for all of them.

I do not have to respond to this as in writing it you have answered it yourself in your imprecision.

Do you have some evidence that indicates that the specific god you believe in is more likely to exist than Thor, Zeus, Allah, Osiris, fairies, etc.?

Yes, I keep it in my brain where my reasoning and understanding can be found using logic and intelligence to rationalise and deduce the whole concept that leaves one thinking that without a God we could not have existed. We would not even be alive if He had not kick started humanity. There is no evidence that tell us that we just came about by chance, abiogenesis, which means that life came from life, biogenesis. That life came from God. I know that because the Holy Ghost confirmed it to me. You do not know that because science can not find a shred of evidence as to how life began or how we ended up with such divercity of species. The more you look into it the more you realised that science is mans attempt at playing God.

Number of followers is irrelevant to the truth of a thing.

Absolute rubbish, of course it is not.

We’ve been over that. Think about it this way: Most everyone an Ancient Greece believed in the existence of Zeus. Does that mean he most likely existed?

They believed it was, so, he did exist, in the minds of thousands of Greeks, which is where our personal reality lies. The Greeks created him.

Thousands of people believe they have been abducted by aliens. Does that mean they were?

There is no reason not to believe them. If they claim that they have been abducted then by contended with their claim is to call them liars. How can you set yourself up as arbiter of what is true and what is false. Who are you to say that they must be lying because you have never been abducted so how do you intend proving that they were not abducted. I do not know if anyone aliens have abducted humans, however, they do and if I am ever abducted I will be one of them. You are to quick to judge and find guilty as liars anyone who

There is no difference between “the existence of a thing” and “the existence of god.” They’re the same thing.

Yes there is a difference, the probability that they exist differs considerably. If I said that I believe in fire breathing dragons then because we know that fire breathing dragons logically could not exist in the natural world we know that it would be folly to believe that they exist when they cannot, however, with all the evidence that we have, that suggests that a superior entity was involved in the creation of the universe, then there exists a real probability that God exists, even though we may not have received the witness of the Holy Ghost that testifies of that which is true.

Other gods or supernatural creatures are not straw men in this argument. They are very relevant to a discussion about belief and evidence for god/supernatural claims and determining the truth of reality.

They are not relevant if their existence is beyond the realms of possibility, as many of the strange entities that you use are.

Again, the idea that the sun will rise in the morning is indeed based on evidence. It’s based on the evidence that the sun has risen every single morning of our lives. Even more broadly, it’s based on the evidence that human beings have accumulated over the years about how our solar system and planetary movements operate.

That is not evidence, that is history. Nothing in history can determine what will happen tomorrow. The probability that the sun will shine tomorrow is high, however, it is not a surety, therefore, there can be no certainty that tomorrow will even come, let alone come with the sun shining.

So like I said, I don’t see how that takes the same kind of faith to believe in as the faith it takes to believe in an immeasurable, indemonstrable, invisible deity. Especially if your evidence is a Bible verse.

Yet you believe that you can determine what the future will bring, as a fortune teller would. I do not expect you to believe that God exists. I am fully aware that the Holy Ghost has not testified to you so you have no reason to believe that He exists, however, like I cannot give you evidence of His existence you cannot give me evidence of His none existence. That being the case, wherein is your argument. Why are you preaching to me that God does not exist and that the likelihood of His existence can be compared to bizarre caricatures. Why are you treating the word of God with such utter contempt knowing that by doing so you will inevitably offend Christians, or is that your intentions. Why are you effectively trying your hardest to actually try and convince Christians that their God does not exist. Surely it is none of your business. Even if you think that Christians are a bunch of nutter for believing what you do not does not give you a right to condemn them for their beliefs. As long as they hurt nobody in their belief then why not just leave them alone. Live and let live.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This is a debate forum.

I repeat ... a DEBATE forum.

We debate ideas here.

If you can't take people questioning your beliefs, opinions, perspectives, points of view, etc. that you are openly sharing on said debate forum, then this probably is not the place you want to be.

Please stop the victimization routine.





I'll respond to your post when I have more time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This question is asked more than anything else it seems, in one form or another. The most popular being "if God loves us, why does he make us suffer so much?"

Do you remember what God said the penalty would be for eating from the forbidden tree? ______ Wasn't it death ?______
Satan made a major accusation against God by saying eating from the tree would Not bring death. Genesis 3
Satan in effect was calling God a liar.
It was Not a question as to who was stronger Satan or God, rather it was a question about honesty. Who was honest, Satan or God ?
Being more powerful or stronger is proven easily, but honesty is Not like strength.
The passing of time shows all in heaven and on earth who really was the honest one.
Satan was in effect telling Eve that God was lying to her, and that Satan was the one telling Eve the truth that she would Not die.
That lie is still being perpetuated today in the teaching that a person is more alive at death than before death when Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11:12-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Eve go to know the ' bad ' because the ' bad ' was: death - Genesis 2:17
Eve thought she could be like God and be better off without God's guidance or direction.
By Adam joining his rebellious wife they were showing they would be better off without God's guiding rulership over mankind.
By taking the Law out of God's hands Adam put the Law into man's hands and Adam set up People Rule as superior to God Rule as the best way of governing on Earth.
Satan also challenges all of us - Job 2:3-5 - that ' touch our flesh ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.

King David experienced suffering, and David believed God was there for us when we suffer - Psalms 31:7
Lastly, Scripture teaches that God will Not allow suffering to go on forever:
Through Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth all suffering will end. Earth's nations will be healed. No one will say, " I am sick..." - Isaiah 33:24
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
Blessed with the benefit of healing - Revelation 22:2 - when mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for mankind's healing.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation found at Revelation 22:20 " Come Lord Jesus! " Come and bring blessings to Earth.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If I said that I believe in fire breathing dragons then because we know that fire breathing dragons logically could not exist in the natural world we know that it would be folly to believe that they exist when they cannot

Can anything exist outside the natural world?

They are not relevant if their existence is beyond the realms of possibility, as many of the strange entities that you use are.

Which 'strange entities' are you referring to exactly?

Why are you preaching to me that God does not exist and that the likelihood of His existence can be compared to bizarre caricatures. Why are you treating the word of God with such utter contempt knowing that by doing so you will inevitably offend Christians, or is that your intentions.

For people who believe in these 'bizarre caricatures', your characterisation of them as such may well offend those people (perhaps even as much as you are offended by the comparison of your God with these beings).

 

[Serenity7855]

This is a debate forum.

I repeat ... a DEBATE forum.

We debate ideas here.

No, in my experience with you all you, you just disagree with posters, to debate is to listen with an open mind. Like most atheists that subscribe to science and the scientific method your mind is closed and like the lighthouse you cannot move. Christ foretold that in the last days wrong would become right and evil would become good. You, among many, have been very forthcoming in fulfilling that prophecy.

If you can't take people questioning your beliefs, opinions, perspectives, points of view, etc. that you are openly sharing on said debate forum, then this probably is not the place you want to be.

That is a very big "if" that relates more to you then it does to me. Your advice, about my sanctioned presence here, summarily dismissed as a puerile and gratuitous aspertion against my person.

Please stop the victimization routine.

When you stop your propensity to be prejudiced and bias in your attempt to vilify me.

I'll respond to your post when I have more time.

Do you know what it means to be tit-for-tat puerile in the face of genuine honesty?

 

[SkepticThinker]

 

[Serenity7855]

Can anything exist outside the natural world?

The opposite of natural is supernatural, so that depends on whether you believe that such phenomenon exists. I believe that God exists so my answer is yes, existence beyond the natural world is an absolute truth, however, an atheist would fervently disagree with me.

Which 'strange entities' are you referring to exactly?

The ones that "Skeptic Thinker" suggested in his post, to me, has the same probability of existing as God does. If you had read enough of the thread to give you an idea of what was being debated, then you would know that and saved yourself the embarrassment of false assertion.

For people who believe in these 'bizarre caricatures', your characterisation of them as such may well offend those people (perhaps even as much as you are offended by the comparison of your God with these beings).

It is most probably that these caricatures that were created by "Skeptic Thinker" do not actually exists so none of them were hurt in this altercation

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The opposite of natural is supernatural, so that depends on whether you believe that such phenomenon exists. I believe that God exists so my answer is yes, existence beyond the natural world is an absolute truth, however, an atheist would fervently disagree with me.

So why not fire-breathing dragons, then?

The ones that "Skeptic Thinker" suggested in his post, to me, has the same probability of existing as God does. If you had read enough of the thread to give you an idea of what was being debated, then you would know that and saved yourself the embarrassment of false assertion.

With all due respect, I have been following the whole thread. Now, in a couple of SkepticThinker's posts, if I recall correctly, they have referred to dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allaah, ghosts, the flying spaghetti monster, the mothman, and the chupacabra (it's possible I missed one or two - please point them out to me). Which of these, specifically, are the 'strange entities' and 'bizarre caricatures' to which you refer?

It is most probably that these caricatures that were created by "Skeptic Thinker" do not actually exists so none of them were hurt in this altercation

I wasn't suggesting that these entities would be hurt by your post; rather that any people who believe in these entities might be offended. But in any case, none of the above were created by SkepticThinker. Of those listed above, the only one I personally don't believe exists is the flying spaghetti monster. I can't comment on whether anyone genuinely believes in the existence of the flying spaghetti monster, but I am far from alone in believing in the existence of the other entities in the above list.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The opposite of natural is supernatural

The "opposite" of natural is SUPERnatural?

That's like saying, 'the opposite of morning is afternoon'!