• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why does god rely so heavily on faith?

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.
 

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why is “Faith” so important? Why is “Faith” the cornerstone in your religious belief? Why is it so important to believe without seeing?
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why is “Faith” so important? Why is “Faith” the cornerstone in your religious belief? Why is it so important to believe without seeing?

Because the senses are limited by their very nature, where as "God" is omnipresent and not limited. Consequently when we depend on the senses we are limiting ourselves, to know "God" we need to go beyond the senses. You call this "faith", but I would not say it is "faith" based on a lack of evidence, but rather "faith" in the sense that we can come to intuitively know for ourselves.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why is “Faith” so important? Why is “Faith” the cornerstone in your religious belief? Why is it so important to believe without seeing?

Would you say there was any difference in Believing something Jesus told you.
compared to some thing he demonstrated to you. Perhaps the difference is "Faith"

Christians no longer have Jesus around to "Demonstrate" to us. Faith in him is always available, and is a stronger personal demonstration of "Belief".
 

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Because the senses are limited by their very nature, where as "God" is omnipresent and not limited. Consequently when we depend on the senses we are limiting ourselves, to know "God" we need to go beyond the senses. You call this "faith", but I would not say it is "faith" based on a lack of evidence, but rather "faith" in the sense that we can come to intuitively know for ourselves.

Do you believe that God created our senses?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why is “Faith” so important? Why is “Faith” the cornerstone in your religious belief? Why is it so important to believe without seeing?

We see with things other than our eyes.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why is “Faith” so important? Why is “Faith” the cornerstone in your religious belief? Why is it so important to believe without seeing?


It is necessary for all humans to believe without seeing.

You must believe you will exist tomorrow to function today. There is no proof that you will.
 

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
Would you say there was any difference in Believing something Jesus told you.
compared to some thing he demonstrated to you. Perhaps the difference is "Faith"

Christians no longer have Jesus around to "Demonstrate" to us. Faith in him is always available, and is a stronger personal demonstration of "Belief".

I’m sorry, but when you start explaining to me things like how the Earth began and what happens to you when you die, you had better have something more than just your word and I don’t care what your name is.
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
Why do you think he does not take advantage of this creation? Senses I’m talking about.

He is taking advantage because He is omnipresent, here right now He knows the limits. He is not limited despite the limitations of our senses.

So why do limits exist might be the next question? To what advantage is it to Him that His creation have limited senses?

Limits provide experiences, and through us (His creation) He experiences.

For example, two lovers enjoy the touch of one another and long for the touch when separated. The sense of touch, smells, taste and sight are stimulated when the lovers come together. God, being omnipresent, knows both the pleasure and the longing and through them He experiences His creation.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

You raise a good question, however while you may have been convinced others would not be. For example there were still tons of disbelievers in the times of Moses and Jesus (peace be on both of them). Even after seeing with their eyes things that could not have been done or explained at all aside from concluding that God really exists, many people denied what they witnessed. They attributed many miracles to magicians tricks and maybe to their own gods if they could. So many times Jesus performed one miracle after another, only for people to see it and recognize it for what it was, then promptly deny the message Jesus came with.

Then the people of Jesus' time went on to demand that he show them Allah openly and plainly. Moses people demanded the same of him at one point. Not unlike many today demand that those who call themselves believers show them Allah/God openly and then they might believe.

So then what was their collective problem? Still even after you saw all that one still needed faith. Faith is the test. Can we believe in Allah without seeing Him openly? It's not a challenge to believe in things that your five senses can detect. I've found that the evidences for Allah's existence are circumstantial rather than completely concrete. By not showing Himself in a concrete way Allah is having mercy on the human being. If we had concrete, without a shadow of a doubt evidence we would not be able to disobey Allah for a single second without severe and immediate consequence.

From the Islamic pov this is what happened to Iblees/Lucifer/Satan. He had concrete evidence as he resided in paradise along with the angels. He saw Allah all the time and recognized Allah's complete authority over everything. However, Iblees possessed free choice as we do. He chose to disobey a direct order from Allah and thus was his fall. His punishment was swift and severe, and there was no option for forgiveness once Iblees decided to continue in opposition. The human family is not subject to such a horrible fate everytime we make a mistake or spend some portion of our lives in disbelief. The mercy in this is that Allah forgives us, based on the fact that we are relying upon our belief or faith that He exists and that He is worthy to be obeyed and worshiped.

This is why the people of that past had horrible punishments. They had great miracles presented to them in such a way, that disbelief was nearly intolerable. Everything from seeing the parting of the Red Sea, to hearing Allah speak to them. So when they decided that they would not believe, not obey Allah and His messenger, they were destroyed in grand fashion.

From an Islamic pov again, as Muslims we do not rely on the miracles that Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought. The trust and belief relies upon the way of life presented by Allah through all His messengers. The messages that Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad brought are more enduring than the physical miracles they performed with Allah's permission.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Because the senses are limited by their very nature, where as "God" is omnipresent and not limited. Consequently when we depend on the senses we are limiting ourselves, to know "God" we need to go beyond the senses.

so we are culpable because of our limited nature?


You call this "faith", but I would not say it is "faith" based on a lack of evidence, but rather "faith" in the sense that we can come to intuitively know for ourselves.

so it's considered virtuous to make uninformed decisions?
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
He is taking advantage because He is omnipresent, here right now He knows the limits. He is not limited despite the limitations of our senses.

So why do limits exist might be the next question? To what advantage is it to Him that His creation have limited senses?

Limits provide experiences, and through us (His creation) He experiences.

but how do you KNOW this?
isn't labeling god limiting it?

For example, two lovers enjoy the touch of one another and long for the touch when separated. The sense of touch, smells, taste and sight are stimulated when the lovers come together. God, being omnipresent, knows both the pleasure and the longing and through them He experiences His creation.

well that really has nothing to do with faith does it? all these senses are affirmed physically and empirically...not so with faith.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.
Because only he can give it. . .Jn 6:65, 44
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
We are culpable for not believing God.
It's considered virtuous to believe God.

but we have limited senses...as per onkara.

is god that insecure that it needs to be believed in knowing we do not have the senses to sense it?

it is considered virtuous to believe in the unseen...?

hey, i got 5 acres of land i can sell ya...for $5,000 in malibu california
why do you not believe me...?
 
Top