Why does God allow evil?

[Salek Atesh]

I want you to consider the problem as being particularly relevant,

I can provide absolute proof that the moon is not made entirely of Jell-O. Astronauts have brought back samples, and in testing their chemical composition, no one has detected even a trace of gelatin. I can provide the reports, and prove this fact.

However, there's no point in doing so if there is no one who believes the moon is Jell-O in the first place.

Why is this any less particularly relevant than the PoE, if no one holds to the definition of Omnimax in which the PoE works??

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes.

Why though? Why do wish suffering on those you love and on yourself?

 

[Salek Atesh]

Why though? Why do wish suffering on those you love and on yourself?

Yin-and-Yang. The true meaning. Not the pop-culture meaning.

 

[Salek Atesh]

Why though? Why do wish suffering on those you love and on yourself?

For reference, Tao Te Ching 2. I've been discussing Taoist metaphysics a bit too much as is on this thread, so I'll refrain from elaborating if that's OK.

 

[Koldo]

But if you accept Soul Making, then you did not believe that an omnibenevolent God would end all suffering, is this not correct??

I believed he wanted to, as per my definition of omnibenevolence. But that he wouldn't because of a greater good. To put it another way, I agreed that God was omnimax, but not that such a combination of attributes would necessarily entail the nonexistence of suffering.

Your "soul-making" thing contradicts the idea of omnibenevolence as you have established it.

It does not.

As you said to me earlier, you didn't accept the idea of omnibenevolence (at least not as you now describe it) so the Problem of Evil did not apply to you.

I didn't say that. I said the opposite: I did accept the idea of omnibenevolence as I have described it.

I simply want a counterexample of someone who believes God can end all suffering, God knows how to end all suffering, and God wants to end all suffering. This is Omnimax as you yourself defined it. In yourself as an example, you thought suffering was necessary for soul-making. In other words, you did not believe God wanted to end all suffering, you thought a benevolent God would include suffering as necessity.

Now is there someone who actually fits your definition in their beliefs, or is there no point to this question??

No no. God would never include suffering as a necessity, but it was a necessity regardless. He wanted to end all suffering. Actually, I didn't tell you what I am going to tell you now but I also believed that people were protected from things they didn't have go through. So, he was actively preventing some evil at least. It is not that he didn't want to prevent all evil, rather it is that by preventing all evil he wouldn't let us achieve this greater good, and if he didn't let us achieve this greater good then he wouldn't be omnibenevolent in the first place. So, his will to do good ( to make us experience the utmost happiness ) took priority over his will to end all suffering. You can think of it as a father who doesn't want his children to suffer but that has to make them endure the pain of vaccination. However, in the end, all of our suffering would be gone for good, or at least a lot of what we can possibly experience on this world.

It does feel odd to bring this up since I don't find this line of reasoning compelling nowadays. But there it is.

 

[Simplelogic]

Question:

Why does God allow evil (or the "privation or absence of good")?

Answer:

"God allows evil to happen in order to bring a greater good therefrom." - St. Thomas Aquinas

Why is it assumed that God allows evil? It is clear that God, out of His own choice, has relinquished control of humanity and created autonomous beings who can do whatever they want. Whats wrong with this?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why is it assumed that God allows evil

Because people often behave in an evil manner..

It is clear that God, out of His own choice, has relinquished control of humanity and created autonomous beings who can do whatever they want. Whats wrong with this?

Almighty God has NOT entirely "relinquished control" .. yes, He has given us a free-will, but if we go too far, He will intervene..

 

[Rick O'Shez]

He has given us a free-will, but if we go too far, He will intervene..

So the Holocaust wasn't us "going to far"? All the other genocides? World Wars? It either means that God is powerless to intervene in human affairs or that he doesn't care. In either case, what use is he?

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

So nothing but your beliefs ratified by your experience?

Do you honesty believe that your personal experiences are the same for all humanity?
If not, then how do you explain your "human nature" claims?

Personal experiences can never be identical. But the laws of nature, whether physical, or psychological are the same.
It becomes easier to comprehend, when one takes into account past life karma.
The common error comes from assuming that the world is based on fundamentally random processes.
But even randomness has its place in keeping things dynamic.

 

[Simplelogic]

Because people often behave in an evil manner..



Almighty God has NOT entirely "relinquished control" .. yes, He has given us a free-will, but if we go too far, He will intervene..

Agreed.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Question:

Why does God allow evil (or the "privation or absence of good")?

Answer:

"God allows evil to happen in order to bring a greater good therefrom." - St. Thomas Aquinas

Yeah, but that's dodging the question. WHY does God allow evil, or good to come to those who are evil.

Ans: God cannot allow Itself to interfere either way. Doing so would reveal It's existence and thus undermine our free will what with us knowing God (if It exists) watching. Our free will is the sole purpose of the universe. God could have done anything else in an instant.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Agreed.

In that case could you respond to post #448?

 

[McBell]

Personal experiences can never be identical. But the laws of nature, whether physical, or psychological are the same.
It becomes easier to comprehend, when one takes into account past life karma.
The common error comes from assuming that the world is based on fundamentally random processes.
But even randomness has its place in keeping things dynamic.

Yet you have not shown your claims to be anything but your own personal experiences.

 

[Simplelogic]

So the Holocaust wasn't us "going to far"? All the other genocides? World Wars? It either means that God is powerless to intervene in human affairs or that he doesn't care. In either case, what use is he?

God tells His people that as long as they walk in His ways He will defend them and be an enemy to their enemies. However He also says that if they follow after other gods then He will lift His protection from His people in the nations that they get scattered from.

 

[Simplelogic]

Genocides are the result of evil men….not God. It is also clear that God does NOT have authority to intervene in every situation. Nor does this world belong to God yet. There is another force controlling it and God is working to take it back over. But He won't do it outside of mans choice, or in a ultra sovereign way. He will wait for righteous men to rise up and team with Him and His goals.

 

[McBell]

Genocides are the result of evil men….not God. It is also clear that God does NOT have authority to intervene in every situation. Nor does this world belong to God yet. There is another force controlling it and God is working to take it back over. But He won't do it outside of mans choice, or in a ultra sovereign way. He will wait for righteous men to rise up and team with Him and His goals.

Pssst....
Flood.

 

[Simplelogic]

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth,... for I regret that I have made them." Genesis 6:5-7

How can a wise God do something that He knows He will regret in the future? This passage clearly implies that, had God known when He created man that he would become as evil as he did, He would not have created him! Thus, He did not know. God knew it was a possibility that man could turn toward ultimate evil. That is part of the risk He took in relinquishing control and giving man a free will. But that is not the same as knowing man would become as evil as he did. God had higher hopes for His creation.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

God tells His people that as long as they walk in His ways He will defend them and be an enemy to their enemies.

So why didn't he then?

 

[Simplelogic]

Pssst....
Flood.

You might want to read up on the nephilim and the reason God went to those great lengths to destroy these evil hybrid humans. Its also worth noting that God didn't succeed in wiping them out. They are still here.

 

[Simplelogic]

So why didn't he then?

Because they left God and served other god's.