Why do you think it's wrong for someone else to be gay?

[Apostle John]

I guess you've never read I Peter 3:15 then?

Ok “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect”- 1 Peter 3:15.

Where in that verse does it say we have the burden of proof.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And the Bible, including the account of the resurrection, has never been disproven in any court. The God Delusion on the other hand can readily be dismissed as having absolutely no credible evidence to disprove the existence of God.

Well, no. But it doesn't really matter, because you are as subjective as the rest of us. You just think that your certainty is the standard for all humans. You can do that but in effect we are just certain differently than you.
I am certain that you are subjective, just as you are certain you are not. That is it.

 

[Apostle John]

Well, no. But it doesn't really matter, because you are as subjective as the rest of us.

It matters a lot. Where is any of your evidence that disproves the existence of God?
I am not subjective, the evidence of the Bible is overwhelming. As many verses in the Bible state, some minds will not be able to accept the evidence of God’s existence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It matters a lot. Where is any of your evidence that disproves the existence of God?
I am not subjective, the evidence of the Bible is overwhelming. As many verses in the Bible state, some minds will not be able to accept the evidence of God’s existence.

Yeah, I just believe different when it comes to proof and evidence. Yet in practice I am as certain as you. We just believe differently.

 

[Apostle John]

Yeah, I just believe different when it comes to proof and evidence. Yet in practice I am as certain as you. We just believe differently.

But you haven’t got any proof and evidence to support an atheist belief. You won’t provide any. Your situation is very uncertain.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But you haven’t got any proof and evidence to support an atheist belief. You won’t provide any. Your situation is very uncertain.

I am not an atheist.

 

[Apostle John]

I am not an atheist.

You've stated your religion as ‘the wrong one’, it isn’t Christianity like mine you also state. You may as well be an atheist.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You didn’t explain why religion potentially causes harm (hysterically in my view) in comparison to atheism

Abrahamic religions promote faith as a virtue, reason as an enemy because it's an enemy of faith, and call the wisdom of man (science, philosophy, mathematics) foolishness - three pretty harmful ideas, both being early steps in grooming believers to not be skeptics or critical thinkers, to eschew reason and higher learning.

Most wars, murders, paedophilia, torture and psychological abuse have no relation to religion or religion being involved.

You just described much of the history of Christianity, with its religious wars that dominated the Middle Ages, its imperialistic genocides and witch hangings, the Catholic church (where pedophilia was institutionalized and protected), the Inquisition, and hell theology respectively

Atheists won’t use the word religion when others describe them and the organisations they are affiliated to religious because they say it doesn't involve the worship of a god but they do worship Satan in their ignorance.

That's you worshiping Satan. You give him life and empower him in your mind. Atheists reject that god and all others, which is why their worldview isn't religious. Yours is.

In your ignorance. You don’t know you’re worshiping Him.

So your argument is that atheists are religious because they worship a literary character they don't believe exists when they say it and all other alleged gods don't exist? That's a religion for you? That kind of thinking is a bit of how religion can damage people. You wouldn't be here on the Internet with your hair on fire over atheism as a religion without your religion. You could be more like the people you have been taught to disesteem - another fault of your religion and an example of the damage it does.

atheists to me come across as mentally challenged and some unwell, irrational.

There's more damage. Look at you ranting while expressing your atheophobic bigotry. You might have found being on this side of the discussion a little more to your liking had you not fallen into a religion.

non-religion does far more harm.

"Non-religion" (humanism, more properly) converted superstation to science, and turned authoritarian monarchies in which people were subjects without rights into the modern, liberal, democratic, secular state serving autonomous citizens with guaranteed personal rights. The Bible opposes overthrowing sitting kings, which it teaches were seated by its god. Here is the biblical advice:

• "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."- Romans 13:1-2
  
  
• "Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient" - Titus 3:1

This is why it was necessary for the founders to make its single reference to a creator and a new right they invented and attributed to the deity. You've seen this in the Declaration no doubt:

• "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

That's what inventing new rules and voicing them through the literary device of a god does for you when you can't say, "We disagree with God and scripture." Just change "God's" mind for him. And it worked. Christian colonists took up arms against a king.

A good place to look for the damage religion causes to many is here on RF. The more of that kind of religion a person has, the more it damages them intellectually, morally, and emotionally.

And the Bible, including the account of the resurrection, has never been disproven in any court.

Nor need it be. It is an unfalsifiable claim. It can be and should be disregarded without further consideration or comment.

[Dawkins'] books have no facts specifically addressing the scientific explanation on creation

There is no science in creationism.

You have the opportunity to state his case if you’ve read his books. He seems a man driven by hate towards God.

You'll have to read his books yourself if you want to know what he says. You seem like a man driven by hatred of Dawkins and atheists.

Satan is a real being and not a concept.

More harm from belief by faith. Too bad for anybody that has to live with that belief, or hell, or a judgmental god.

• "To the philosophy of atheism belongs the credit of robbing death of its horror and its terror. It brought about the abolition of Hell." - Joseph Lewis

I don’t know where this ‘burden of proof is on the believer’ comes from

Academia. Critical thinkers understand that when they make a claim and want to be believed, they have a burden of proof, which can be met with another critical thinker, but not with somebody unprepared to evaluate an evidenced argument for soundness. Preparation is required to be convinced by the proof of Pythagorean theorem. One needs to know a little about algebra and geometry first, which is why a preschooler cannot follow that argument and why one has no burden of proof with an unprepared mind.

Christians are only obliged to mention the Gospel and not give proof.

Critical thinkers are only obliged to consider arguments. Bare claims have no persuasive power there.

Any burden is on the people who don’t believe in Christ because of the consequences described in the Bible.

The Bible is not authoritative to skeptics, and it doesn't matter what unevidenced claims it makes. They can be ignored without rebuttal.

Why did he call one of his books ‘The God Delusion’

He doesn't believe that "God" exists, and thus belief in God is false. When does a false belief become delusion? Feel free to draw the line where you like. Some require an element of mental illness. What do you think of this opinion? :

• "George Bush says he speaks to God every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to God through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd." - Sam Harris

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You've stated your religion as ‘the wrong one’, it isn’t Christianity like mine you also state. You may as well be an atheist.

Well, it is a joke, since I am a general skeptic and I use doubt as one main way of understanding the world. And thus it is the wrong one to you. You just get the joke differently.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Atheists will find that to be wrong when they stop breathing.

Hardly.

There are for a fact athiests in foxholes.

 

[Apostle John]

Abrahamic religions promote faith as a virtue, reason as an enemy because it's an enemy of faith, and call the wisdom of man (science, philosophy, mathematics) foolishness - three pretty harmful ideas, both being early steps in grooming believers to not be skeptics or critical thinkers, to eschew reason and higher learning.

You just described much of the history of Christianity, with its religious wars that dominated the Middle Ages, its imperialistic genocides and witch hangings, the Catholic church (where pedophilia was institutionalized and protected), the Inquisition, and hell theology respectively

That's you worshiping Satan. You give him life and empower him in your mind. Atheists reject that god and all others, which is why their worldview isn't religious. Yours is.

So your argument is that atheists are religious because they worship a literary character they don't believe exists when they say it and all other alleged gods don't exist? That's a religion for you? That kind of thinking is a bit of how religion can damage people. You wouldn't be here on the Internet with your hair on fire over atheism as a religion without your religion. You could be more like the people you have been taught to disesteem - another fault of your religion and an example of the damage it does.

There's more damage. Look at you ranting while expressing your atheophobic bigotry. You might have found being on this side of the discussion a little more to your liking had you not fallen into a religion.

"Non-religion" (humanism, more properly) converted superstation to science, and turned authoritarian monarchies in which people were subjects without rights into the modern, liberal, democratic, secular state serving autonomous citizens with guaranteed personal rights. The Bible opposes overthrowing sitting kings, which it teaches were seated by its god. Here is the biblical advice:

• "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."- Romans 13:1-2
  
  
• "Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient" - Titus 3:1

This is why it was necessary for the founders to make its single reference to a creator and a new right they invented and attributed to the deity. You've seen this in the Declaration no doubt:

• "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

That's what inventing new rules and voicing them through the literary device of a god does for you when you can't say, "We disagree with God and scripture." Just change "God's" mind for him. And it worked. Christian colonists took up arms against a king.

A good place to look for the damage religion causes to many is here on RF. The more of that kind of religion a person has, the more it damages them intellectually, morally, and emotionally.

Nor need it be. It is an unfalsifiable claim. It can be and should be disregarded without further consideration or comment.

There is no science in creationism.

You'll have to read his books yourself if you want to know what he says. You seem like a man driven by hatred of Dawkins and atheists.

More harm from belief by faith. Too bad for anybody that has to live with that belief, or hell, or a judgmental god.

• "To the philosophy of atheism belongs the credit of robbing death of its horror and its terror. It brought about the abolition of Hell." - Joseph Lewis

Academia. Critical thinkers understand that when they make a claim and want to be believed, they have a burden of proof, which can be met with another critical thinker, but not with somebody unprepared to evaluate an evidenced argument for soundness. Preparation is required to be convinced by the proof of Pythagorean theorem. One needs to know a little about algebra and geometry first, which is why a preschooler cannot follow that argument and why one has no burden of proof with an unprepared mind.

Critical thinkers are only obliged to consider arguments. Bare claims have no persuasive power there.

The Bible is not authoritative to skeptics, and it doesn't matter what unevidenced claims it makes. They can be ignored without rebuttal.

He doesn't believe that "God" exists, and thus belief in God is false. When does a false belief become delusion? Feel free to draw the line where you like. Some require an element of mental illness. What do you think of this opinion? :

• "George Bush says he speaks to God every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to God through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd." - Sam Harris

So to summarise you’re going to hell because you have no proof or evidence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So to summarise you’re going to hell because you have no proof or evidence.

Yeah, I have faith in a different God.

 

[Apostle John]

Feel free to draw the line where you like. Some require an element of mental illness. What do you think of this opinion? :

• "George Bush says he speaks to God every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to God through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd." - Sam Harris

What’s to critically think about that other than it is atheist nonsense.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What’s to critically think about that other than it is atheist nonsense.

Yeah and to me it is a different way of understanding the world.

 

[halbhh]

Do you have an answer that actually makes sense? Don’t answer that. You don’t.

As you may have heard already, there isn't anything wrong with any temperament.

Rather, we all have good and evil in us, and everyone does wrongs at times in life, no matter their temperament, and of course using my temperament I might well tend to fall into some various wrongs that are easier to fall into with my temperament more than others of another temperament (they have their own wrongs they tend to fall into doing).

So, while sometimes specific wrongs are addressed (in a helpful illustrative way) like "Do not steal", "Do not commit adultery with your neighbor's wife" (there's one I have to work to resist), and so on, it's the general principle that matters in the end, as Jesus taught:

12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this sums up(!) the Law and the Prophets. 13 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." -- Jesus, the Christ, in Matthew 7

He says that we can mislead ourselves (choose to go) into more and more self harm (and harms to others) until we are 'lost'. But that by listening to His teachings, following (doing) as He teaches, we can be found again, and be "alive again" (restored to what we should be as our best).

edit: I should add: in addition to teaching how best to live this life here and now, Jesus also teaches more amazing things which are profound, and sometimes mysterious to many, but I found are very good as far as I've been able to test out by following. I now believe He refers to a life after this life, and I don't want it to sound as if I suggest He only teaches only how to just flourish in this life. He does, but also more!

 

[Apostle John]

Yeah and to me it is a different way of understanding the world.

Why did Sam Harris bother to introduce a hairdryer into this, what is he trying to say and mean? Does he have anything rational and logical to say. He might do something similar with a hairdryer going by that remark, only talking to Satan.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As you may have heard already, there isn't anything wrong with any temperament.

Rather, we all have good and evil in us, and everyone does wrongs at times in life, no matter their temperament, and of course using my temperament I might well tend to fall into some various wrongs that are easier to fall into with my temperament more than others of another temperament (they have their own wrongs they tend to fall into doing).

So, while sometimes specific wrongs are addressed (in a helpful illustrative way) like "Do not steal", "Do not commit adultery with your neighbor's wife" (there's one I have to work to resist), and so on, it's the general principle that matters in the end, as Jesus taught:

12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this sums up(!) the Law and the Prophets. 13 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." -- Jesus, the Christ, in Matthew 7

He says that we can mislead ourselves (choose to go) into more and more self harm (and harms to others) until we are 'lost'. But that by listening to His teachings, we can be found again, and be "alive again" (restored to what we should be as our best).

I want others to accept me as a human and thus I do that to others. As for that as an individual, I try to treat others as an individual.

 

[Father Heathen]

What’s to critically think about that other than it is atheist nonsense.

God wouldn't have gifted you with the ability to reason had he intended for you to forgo its use.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Why did Sam Harris bother to introduce a hairdryer into this, what is he trying to say and mean? Does he have anything rational and logical to say. He might do something similar with a hairdryer going by that remark, only talking to Satan.

Well, he does his way, you do yours and I do mine. I am not going to play your game as you. The final judgment is with God, if there is a God.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why did Sam Harris bother to introduce a hairdryer into this, what is he trying to say and mean? Does he have anything rational and logical to say. He might do something similar with a hairdryer going by that remark, only talking to Satan.

Calm down, think on it for a few minutes, and I bet you'll figure it out.
Thinking is a good thing.