Why do women hate each other?

[SomeRandom]

In true separate matrifocal societies still surviving today, - such as the ones in China, - the men are more balanced, as they are raised in matrifocal families groups.

However, they are now starting to come under attack, to change to more modern patrifocal societal family norms.

Outer (patrifocal society raised) males - are actually causing problems for these ancient matrifocal groups, by thinking of the women, whom take lovers and raise the resulting children in matrifocal families, - without husbands, - as prostitutes. In other words, these women have sex with whomever they choose, - and don't marry, or kowtow to men.

Thus they actually now have a problem with sex seeking male tourists, and since the women are not prostitutes, - actual prostitutes have moved into areas around their territory, to have sex with the men and get their money.

*

Are you referring to the Mosou culture in China near Tibet?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo

This is probably more of a translation issue than anything else. It's hard to translate some Eastern concepts into English or for Westerners, since the definitions rely heavily on the specific paradigm it comes from. Sometimes there's literally no equivalent translation. So misunderstandings arise very easily. Often to the detriment of the "foreigners."

 

[Ingledsva]

Are you referring to the Mosou culture in China near Tibet?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo

This is probably more of a translation issue than anything else. It's hard to translate some Eastern concepts into English or for Westerners, since the definitions rely heavily on the specific paradigm it comes from. Sometimes there's literally no equivalent translation. So misunderstandings arise very easily. Often to the detriment of the "foreigners."

It has been a while since I read about these Chinese matrifocal groups, - so not sure. There are several different groups.

A lot of the piece sounds the same. But some - not so much.

*

 

[SomeRandom]

It has been a while since I read about these Chinese matrifocal groups, - so not sure. There are several different groups.

A lot of the piece sounds the same. But some - not so much.

*

Fair enough.

 

[Thanda]

That may be the case, but it doesn't mean you have to generalize and stereotype people based on a superficiality like skin color or what's between their legs. Considering the number of laws we have in my country prohibiting discrimination based on such characteristics, it's a good idea to cultivate a mindset that avoids obsessing over those things when judging people.

I don't live in your country, firstly. Secondly I am not quite sure what harm you think this post is doing. I am merely asking a question. Some people have given some very good and thought provoking responses to my questions. This thread does not ask for a lecture on the pros and cons of generalisations - I think we are all mature enough to know their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Thanda]

In true separate matrifocal societies still surviving today, - such as the ones in China, - the men are more balanced, as they are raised in matrifocal families groups.

However, they are now starting to come under attack, to change to more modern patrifocal societal family norms.

Outer (patrifocal society raised) males - are actually causing problems for these ancient matrifocal groups, by thinking of the women, whom take lovers and raise the resulting children in matrifocal families, - without husbands, - as prostitutes. In other words, these women have sex with whomever they choose, - and don't marry, or kowtow to men.

Thus they actually now have a problem with sex seeking male tourists, and since the women are not prostitutes, - actual prostitutes have moved into areas around their territory, to have sex with the men and get their money.

*

More balanced? So do you have a blue-print on what a "Real Man" should be?

 

[Ingledsva]

More balanced? So do you have a blue-print on what a "Real Man" should be?

These groups have hardly any violence against women. Enough said.

*

 

[Thanda]

These groups have hardly any violence against women. Enough said.

*

Oh, so that is all you care about - if no one is hitting women then the society is perfect? Well excuse me for assuming there is more to a man's value and worth than whether or not he hits women.

 

[Quintessence]

I don't live in your country, firstly.

Hmm. I suppose you may live in a country that doesn't have as much women's rights or equality of treatment under the law. I forget that this is still common globally. Cultures lacking such laws are probably more likely to engage in cultural type-casting based on someone's sex. It used to be really bad here in the States too, but social justice movements helped to shift that. The result is it's less likely around here that someone can ask a question like "why do women X?" without someone asking "what does that have to do with being a woman?" (as it usually has nothing to do with being a woman unless it pertains to reproductive health issues).

Secondly I am not quite sure what harm you think this post is doing.

Yes, I would expect that of someone who would even ask this type of question. That's fine. I don't want to get into personal elements on this that much, but hopefully it is enough to say that I have definitely suffered in life from people stereotyping me based on what's between my legs, so I don't react well when I see people encouraging it with questions like this. It is a lot better now - as thankfully I live in a society that isn't too tolerant of that and has been progressive in breaking down sex and gender stereotypes. I guess I was just ahead of the curve on that growing up a few decades ago... I bet children growing up in the States today don't have to put up with as much crap as I had to. Which is awesome.

At any rate, carry on... I'd just be aware that yeah, this sort of stuff can have some consequences that are bad for some of us.

 

[Thanda]

Hmm. I suppose you may live in a country that doesn't have as much women's rights or equality of treatment under the law. I forget that this is still common globally. Cultures lacking such laws are probably more likely to engage in cultural type-casting based on someone's sex. It used to be really bad here in the States too, but social justice movements helped to shift that. The result is it's less likely around here that someone can ask a question like "why do women X?" without someone asking "what does that have to do with being a woman?" (as it usually has nothing to do with being a woman unless it pertains to reproductive health issues).

Ah, and you have now gone on to make a bunch of assumptions about me and my country to try to prove your point. In my country women hold over 40% of government positions. In your country the figure is closer to 20%. It appears therefore that you still live in a country that has a lot of catching up to do on substantial (rather than merely rhetorical) empowerment of women. Furthermore (in our 22 years of liberation), we have already had a female deputy president and there is a strong chance of a female president come 2019 (our next elections). On the other hand, if I'm not mistaken, it has taken your country over 400 years to get to the point where you may likely have a female president. All in all, I think you would be ill-advised to think you country has made much more progress on equality than mine - especially when over 50 percent of your fellow countrymen and women still think you country is not ready for a female president.

Now that we have that out of the way, I would like to add that in my country recognizing equality between the sexes doesn't mean assuming sameness of the sexes. We continue to recognize that women do share common characteristics with each other as well as the fact that men share common characteristics with each other. We recognize that women have common challenges that they face as a group as well as men having common challenges they face as a group. We recognize that these challenges may be caused by factors that are external to the group (i.e. caused by outside factors such as opposite sex, biology or illness) and some are caused by factors that are internal to the group such as nastiness between women and lack of affection between men. We do not hide away from these conversations because we are all mature enough to understand that talking about sex/gender specific issues and challenges does not itself create inequality since we know that equality does not mean the absence of differences.
Therefore we do not pride ourselves in suffocating political correctness that does nothing but project the appearance of progress while doing nothing to actually promote real equality on the ground.

 

[Quintessence]

Ah, and you have now gone on to make a bunch of assumptions about me and my country to try to prove your point.

I said: "I suppose you may live in a country that doesn't have as much women's rights or equality of treatment under the law," not that you do live in such a country. As such, it was not an assumption, but a speculation that you were more than free to correct if it's not applicable. Which you did. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Thanda]

Yes, I would expect that of someone who would even ask this type of question. That's fine. I don't want to get into personal elements on this that much, but hopefully it is enough to say that I have definitely suffered in life from people stereotyping me based on what's between my legs, so I don't react well when I see people encouraging it with questions like this. It is a lot better now - as thankfully I live in a society that isn't too tolerant of that and has been progressive in breaking down sex and gender stereotypes. I guess I was just ahead of the curve on that growing up a few decades ago... I bet children growing up in the States today don't have to put up with as much crap as I had to. Which is awesome.

At any rate, carry on... I'd just be aware that yeah, this sort of stuff can have some consequences that are bad for some of us.

I will also like to add this: I am not sure if you are one of those people, but I have noticed that many who protest against stereotypes only protest against those stereotypes that are negative. To an extent that is understandable but I believe that it also has a tendency to scupper progress. Everybody in the world has a good and a bad side. As a result every group of people have a good and a bad side. Therefore, if we are willing to talk about positive attributes some group has, then we should not be hypocritical and be unwilling to talk about the negative stereotypes that group of people have.
For example, I have noticed that in countries that are highly influenced by the modern flavour of feminism there will be those who are always ready to complain about negative stereotypes of women perpetuated by generalisation while having little problem generalising about cis men for example.

 

[Pudding]

Or a lot of them at least.

There are many examples I could give of me noticing this issue. But it all began years ago when I was in grade 7. I was a pretty talkative boy in class and my teacher tried putting me with different boys to keep me quiet. But when it didn't work with me (and others) she decided to make sure all boys sat next to girls. It was at this time that I first noticed how girls treat it each other. I saw letters being written about how one of the girls needed to be excluded from the group because she had been seen talking to someone who was from an "enemy" group.

Over the years I have noticed that gossip magazines, read mostly by women, spend an inordinate amount of time criticising women who are too fat or too thin. I have also met quite a few women who refuse to have any female friends (on the other hand I have never met a man who refuses to have any male friends).

All in all I have found women to be much nastier to each other than men are to each other - and that is even among women who are supposed to be friends.

So my question is, why is this the case? Women, why do you give each other such a hard time?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio
The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
As of August 2016 , it was estimated at 7.4 billion.

As a result, the female world population is about 3.7 billion. As i don't know the ratio female baby comparing to "girl above 11 years old (as you have say that your grade 7 12 years old female classmate being nastier to each other )"&women, so i'll just say that girl*&women's population is about 1.5-2+ billion.

How many female(not including baby) you have encounter who're being nastier to other female*, makes you have to generalize those 1.5-2+ billion female* to also being nastier to other female*?
Do you think your generalization is a good idea?

 

[Thanda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio
The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
As of August 2016 , it was estimated at 7.4 billion.

As a result, the female world population is about 3.7 billion. As i don't know the ratio female baby comparing to "girl above 11 years old (as you have complain that your grade 7 12 years old female classmate being nastier to each other )"+women, so i'll just say girl*+women's population is about 1.5-2 billion.

How many female(not including baby) you have encounter who're being nastier to other female*, makes you have to generalize those 1.5-2 billion female* to also being nastier to other female*?
Do you think your generalization is a good idea?

Yes I think it is a good idea. I gather this because, luckily, I don't live under a rock where I am privy to no other information other than that which I gain from my own personal experiences. I have the privilege of talking to other people who have had similar experiences (mostly other women) and have read up on the subject a bit. So yes my OP was a generalisation (although I did start by saying "most of them" as opposed to all) - but it was merely opening up a discussion. You or anyone else are welcome to share your own experiences or to prove me wrong if you wish.

 

[Pudding]

Yes I think it is a good idea.

Too bad you think it is a good idea to accuse all women as being nasty to other women because you have meet many nasty behaviour women.

I gather this because, luckily, I don't live under a rock where I am privy to no other information other than that which I gain from my own personal experiences. I have the privilege of talking to other people who have had similar experiences (mostly other women) and have read up on the subject a bit. So yes my OP was a generalisation (although I did start by saying "most of them" as opposed to all) - but it was merely opening up a discussion. You or anyone else are welcome to share your own experiences or to prove me wrong if you wish.

Is that so hard to put a quantifier to your title or op's questions?
As in "Why do many women hate each other?"

Why you have to separate the quantifier and make it absense in the sentence which need it, is that because you like being vague? Please be specific with what you want to say and insert the quantifier into those sentence to avoid giving people the impresion that you're accusing all women that all of them are nasty, also as to avoid accusing those women who're not hating each other.

See, you've accuse Deidre already, do you think it is fair and wise to give false accusation to them?

I've never hated a woman, but I've just kept some at an arm's length. lol Just in case. But, I've done that with men too. Maybe I have trust issues.

 

[Thanda]

Too bad you think it is a good idea to accuse all women as being nasty to other women because you have meet many nasty behaviour women.

I did not accuse all women. Even the title itself did not say all women.

Is that so hard to put a quantifier to your title or op's questions?
As in "Why do many women hate each other?"

Why you have to separate the quantifier and make it absense in the sentence which need it, is that because you like being vague? Please be specific with what you want to say and insert the quantifier into those sentence to avoid giving people the impresion that you're accusing all women that all of them are nasty, also as to avoid accusing those women who're not hating each other.

See, you've accuse Deidre already, do you think it is fair and wise to give false accusation to them?

Weren't you ever taught not to judge a book by its cover? Do not judge a post by it's title.

 

[Penumbra]

Seems to me that including some actual numbers in the discussion would be helpful.

From a 3 minute google search, here are at least a few numbers.

School boys are apparently far more likely to get in physical fights than school girls:

Girls are apparently a bit more likely to cyberbully than boys:

The majority of workplace bullying is by men, although women focused more on bullying other women while men were more equal-opportunity bullies (although they still favored to bully women a bit more):

http://www.workplacebullying.org/2014-gender/


I dunno, seems kind of like a wash to me, statistically.

 

[SomeRandom]

Too bad you think it is a good idea to accuse all women as being nasty to other women because you have meet many nasty behaviour women.


Is that so hard to put a quantifier to your title or op's questions?
As in "Why do many women hate each other?"

Why you have to separate the quantifier and make it absense in the sentence which need it, is that because you like being vague? Please be specific with what you want to say and insert the quantifier into those sentence to avoid giving people the impresion that you're accusing all women that all of them are nasty, also as to avoid accusing those women who're not hating each other.

See, you've accuse Deidre already, do you think it is fair and wise to give false accusation to them?

Oh geez. Heaven forbid someone try to figure out a negative stereotype and where it comes from.
Stereotypes exist for a reason. No one just made them up on the spot arbitrarily. People don't always fit them obviously but that doesn't mean there is no truth to them either. That's how generalities work.
Sorry but the OP is right. This is even a point of conversation for my feminist friends. We see it all the time in media, in the workplace, in everyday life and for my cousin through her very pro feminist blog. Women are often just plain nasty to one and other. Snarky comments, fake praise, backstabbing and disloyalty. Sometimes it's so subtle no one notices or perhaps care. That's not to say a majority of women are like this, but generally speaking when women fight it's more emotional and psychological than when men fight.
We as women and feminists should tackle these issues and figure out their root cause. Instead of getting persnickety about the OPs usage of the English language. Technically the way the question is worded is a tight usage of English, not necessarily a generalisation.
Even if it's not, like come on prioties.

 

[Ana.J]

Or a lot of them at least.

There are many examples I could give of me noticing this issue. But it all began years ago when I was in grade 7. I was a pretty talkative boy in class and my teacher tried putting me with different boys to keep me quiet. But when it didn't work with me (and others) she decided to make sure all boys sat next to girls. It was at this time that I first noticed how girls treat it each other. I saw letters being written about how one of the girls needed to be excluded from the group because she had been seen talking to someone who was from an "enemy" group.

Over the years I have noticed that gossip magazines, read mostly by women, spend an inordinate amount of time criticising women who are too fat or too thin. I have also met quite a few women who refuse to have any female friends (on the other hand I have never met a man who refuses to have any male friends).

All in all I have found women to be much nastier to each other than men are to each other - and that is even among women who are supposed to be friends.

So my question is, why is this the case? Women, why do you give each other such a hard time?

I'll tell you why. It is all about competition. Women are capable of anything when it comes to getting the man they want. Sometimes this outgrows in pure hate of the other representatives of the same sex....