Why do we always think....

[Spirit of Light]

To change one must first be someone, and a lot of people have not learned how to be themselves. There is a maturing process which can be interrupted by traumas, by isolation and by other problems. Then the person lacks a reference. For example suppose a person has borderline personality disorder. This means they can't or can't easily get past the pain of their situations to be themselves to the degree that they don't recognize their own selves and don't know what they want. Then they have no way to measure their needs for change. Their focus has to be on becoming someone before they will have the freedom to become someone else.

I agree with you here
My thought when I wrote the OP was that I have seen some comments both in the forum, but also in real life about other people that sound so out of place that I started to think, "Does this person even understand what he/she say about someone they do not know?" And as I said in an earlier answer in this thread, I do see people as people, so it is very difficult for me to say just because skin color is different than my own I can not like this person....

 

[PureX]

We are all human beings, so why can we not treat others as the same?

Because the whole point is to be better than everyone else. It's how you get the babes. And the money. And the adulation of fame.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Because the whole point is to be better than everyone else. It's how you get the babes. And the money. And the adulation of fame.

Hehe and non of those things do i have

 

[Khasekhemwy]

Why do we always think that is everyone else who must change, and not our self? Honestly, life is changing all the time, and we must be able to see where we need to change ourselves too. Do we need to make a critique of others beliefs or where they come from?

My experience has been that others simply won’t change to suit me whether or not I think they should. Given I’ve also noticed significant attributes of my own I seem unable to change, the human capacity for change may be limited in the first place. Personal traits and views acquired over a lifetime aren’t things we can switch on and off like a TV set.

I agree with you that we can learn to govern our tongues, however. If I fail to appreciate someone else’s beliefs, it hardly means I must let him or her know about it. This was expressed in a cliché my mother often shared at the dinner table: “If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all.”

American popular culture, the milieu I’m familiar with, has devalued such courtesy of late. Making our side’s agenda loud and clear while “no-platforming” the outlooks of those we disagree with has become an ethos, in effect the way we dialog across religious or political lines now, and it’s reached a point where Congress can’t pass routine legislation and the president rules by executive orders which are then disputed in the courts.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why do we always think that is everyone else who must change, and not our self?
Honestly, life is changing all the time, and we must be able to see where we need to change ourselves too.
Do we need to make a critique of others beliefs or where they come from?

Maybe one day it is our self that is in trouble and needs a new place to live, would we like if we come to a new country, and was looked down at, or was mistreated just because we looked different?

We are all human beings, so why can we not treat others as the same?

I do see where change comes from within, yet from time to time, if life teaches us anything, change is not going to be in the direction one would expect or desire I think.

It makes me view change as being best when you have mastered the ability to adapt to what goes around and within.

 

[stvdv]

Why do we always think that is everyone else who must change, and not our self?

That's one of Newton's Laws ... a mass moving is hard to stop ... especially "a big mass of ego"

 

[Nimos]

Why do we always think that is everyone else who must change, and not our self?
Honestly, life is changing all the time, and we must be able to see where we need to change ourselves too.
Do we need to make a critique of others beliefs or where they come from?

Maybe one day it is our self that is in trouble and needs a new place to live, would we like if we come to a new country, and was looked down at, or was mistreated just because we looked different?

We are all human beings, so why can we not treat others as the same?

I agree humans are humans and everything else needs to be judged separately. If you moved to my country you should respect my culture and not expect me to accept yours. Which may or may not sound strange. But culture is something that have been build up over many years and fairly settled on by each country and slowly changes over time. If we don't criticize other beliefs you would have to also say that we shouldn't do it towards racisme or nazis etc. And I would strongly disagree with that and not accept or even respect such beliefs and definitely criticize them for being wrong. So imagine someone coming to your country spreading stuff like that, do you honestly think we ought to not criticize it?

If you come to Denmark you would almost be able to do as you please and believe what you want, as we have free speech etc as most western countries have. but you will without a doubt be confronted, if you start spreading bad "ideas" or believes. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that, remember Hitler were just one man with a lot of very bad beliefs

 

[shunyadragon]

Changing others or changing yourself?

Changing others is a hopeless cause like swimming in peanut butter. It is hard enough to change oneself, especially when you have one foot nailed to the floor.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree humans are humans and everything else needs to be judged separately. If you moved to my country you should respect my culture and not expect me to accept yours. Which may or may not sound strange. But culture is something that have been build up over many years and fairly settled on by each country and slowly changes over time. If we don't criticize other beliefs you would have to also say that we shouldn't do it towards racisme or nazis etc. And I would strongly disagree with that and not accept or even respect such beliefs and definitely criticize them for being wrong. So imagine someone coming to your country spreading stuff like that, do you honestly think we ought to not criticize it?

If you come to Denmark you would almost be able to do as you please and believe what you want, as we have free speech etc as most western countries have. but you will without a doubt be confronted, if you start spreading bad "ideas" or believes. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that, remember Hitler were just one man with a lot of very bad beliefs

The intention with my OP was to say, we should be better to have compassion toward others, but i understand people are afraid of other cultures. As a Norwegian i should love Norwegian cultures. But i don't. I love every cultures, but got bored of Norwegian Culture.

 

[Nimos]

The intention with my OP was to say, we should be better to have compassion toward others, but i understand people are afraid of other cultures. As a Norwegian i should love Norwegian cultures. But i don't. I love every cultures, but got bored of Norwegian Culture.

What do you mean you got bored of it, part of your culture comes from the time of vikings, sames as with Denmark, if you have ever read some of the old stories, how can you say they are boring Or do you just mean modern Norway? and what exactly would you change? As far as I know, Norway are pretty much like Denmark in terms of what you can and can't do.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What do you mean you got bored of it, part of your culture comes from the time of vikings, sames as with Denmark, if you have ever read some of the old stories, how can you say they are boring Or do you just mean modern Norway? and what exactly would you change? As far as I know, Norway are pretty much like Denmark in terms of what you can and can't do.

As in many other countries today people here in Norway are afraid of foreign people and to me that feels not right, why should i be afraid of an other human being? And the last 20 years i have lived with philosophy from Asia and a spiritual path of Buddhism, and not many people here (Norway) share this lifestyle. And to me if people from other countries move here i get interested because they have their culture and religion they can share.

I have no attachments to the past history of Norway with Vikings or other worriers, So to me, it is only this moment that is important. And there are not many people here (Norway) who understand this way of thinking.

 

[PureX]

As in many other countries today people here in Norway are afraid of foreign people and to me that feels not right, why should i be afraid of an other human being? And the last 20 years i have lived with philosophy from Asia and a spiritual path of Buddhism, and not many people here (Norway) share this lifestyle. And to me if people from other countries move here i get interested because they have their culture and religion they can share.

I have no attachments to the past history of Norway with Vikings or other worriers, So to me, it is only this moment that is important. And there are not many people here (Norway) who understand this way of thinking.

I think you would encounter this everywhere. The truth is that most people are just trying to live a life relatively free of pain and suffering, and are not especially interested in gods or culture or other metaphysical possibilities so long as they are able to live in relative peace and security. So when they are faced with people from a different experiential perspective, they worry how it will effect their relative peace and security. They are not interested in how these newcomers perceive deep metaphysical possibilities (as you or I might be). We, and our metaphysical curiosity are in a distinct minority within our human family. And we will remain in that minority no matter where we go.

I think it's important to respect this. It's part of the 'Tao of Man'.

 

[Nimos]

As in many other countries today people here in Norway are afraid of foreign people and to me that feels not right, why should i be afraid of an other human being? And the last 20 years i have lived with philosophy from Asia and a spiritual path of Buddhism, and not many people here (Norway) share this lifestyle. And to me if people from other countries move here i get interested because they have their culture and religion they can share.

I have no attachments to the past history of Norway with Vikings or other worriers, So to me, it is only this moment that is important. And there are not many people here (Norway) who understand this way of thinking.

Yeah, but your culture is arrived at based on the passed, it include a lot of things, songs, traditions etc. Why wouldn't you just be bored with any other culture?

To me you seem to think this is about people, but I think its actually about ideas. New cultures bring new ideas, some might be good some might not be. So I think its rather natural and reasonable to be skeptic about new ideas and cultures, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to understand them. But at the same time we shouldn't respect or have to accept them, if its non sense. So people should be afraid of bad ideas. Obviously people make some connection between skin color and culture and religion. It not something that is easily fought. But I bet you have heard of some person in Norway that shares your ideas, even though they "appear" to come from an Arabic country, only to figure out that this person were born in Norway and besides the skin color, have no relationship to people from those countries. So I don't think its strange why people might act as you say, because they assume that anyone with a certain skin color is a muslim or whatever, because they don't really think about it, and it might not be easy to know the difference unless you ask them.

Also we can't exclude that some are racists, but also its not uncommon for people to mix that with someone criticizing a religion, because of this misunderstanding that skin color decide your religious beliefs and if you say anything bad about a religion you are also a racist, even though the person might simply disagree with some bad ideas that the religion teaches.

If there ain't many buddhists in Norway, does it really matter or have you tried to see if there is some Norwegian buddhists "club" or something?

How different is being a buddhists from not being one on a everyday basis?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yeah, but your culture is arrived at based on the passed, it include a lot of things, songs, traditions etc. Why wouldn't you just be bored with any other culture?

To me you seem to think this is about people, but I think its actually about ideas. New cultures bring new ideas, some might be good some might not be. So I think its rather natural and reasonable to be skeptic about new ideas and cultures, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to understand them. But at the same time we shouldn't respect or have to accept them, if its non sense. So people should be afraid of bad ideas. Obviously people make some connection between skin color and culture and religion. It not something that is easily fought. But I bet you have heard of some person in Norway that shares your ideas, even though they "appear" to come from an Arabic country, only to figure out that this person were born in Norway and besides the skin color, have no relationship to people from those countries. So I don't think its strange why people might act as you say, because they assume that anyone with a certain skin color is a muslim or whatever, because they don't really think about it, and it might not be easy to know the difference unless you ask them.

Also we can't exclude that some are racists, but also its not uncommon for people to mix that with someone criticizing a religion, because of this misunderstanding that skin color decide your religious beliefs and if you say anything bad about a religion you are also a racist, even though the person might simply disagree with some bad ideas that the religion teaches.

If there ain't many buddhists in Norway, does it really matter or have you tried to see if there is some Norwegian buddhists "club" or something?

How different is being a buddhists from not being one on a everyday basis?

There is a monastery of Thai tradition that i am connected to and when i go there even i am Norwegian they see me as a person and not a nationality And that is where i can freely have discussion of the teaching of buddhism.
As a Cultivating buddhist and not a "religious" buddhist it is not just to believe in the buddha for me it is that i must always watch my thoughts word and speech. and contemplating the 4 noble truths and 8 folded path. so i study buddhism 6-8 hour every day, and i do not know other Norwegians who do it, so i tend to talk with the Thai community most

 

[Nimos]

There is a monastery of Thai tradition that i am connected to and when i go there even i am Norwegian they see me as a person and not a nationality And that is where i can freely have discussion of the teaching of buddhism.
As a Cultivating buddhist and not a "religious" buddhist it is not just to believe in the buddha for me it is that i must always watch my thoughts word and speech. and contemplating the 4 noble truths and 8 folded path. so i study buddhism 6-8 hour every day, and i do not know other Norwegians who do it, so i tend to talk with the Thai community most

Which is good, so why ain't you happy or appreciate that you live in a land with a culture that allow you to do this? But rather than seeing the amazing about this, as its not possible in a lot of other countries, you reach the conclusion that Norwegian culture is boring, yet it actually allow you to experience any culture or religion that you like, as you have religious freedom. Do you get why its a bit confusing, lets say you lived in a highly Islamic country which didn't allow religious freedom or where the minorities are really looked down at or treated bad, would that be less boring?

To me it just sounds like you wished there were more Norwegian buddhists, yet you also want a mixture of cultures where people accept each other beliefs. So ain't Norway a pretty decent place to talk with and meet people with different cultural backgrounds?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Which is good, so why ain't you happy or appreciate that you live in a land with a culture that allow you to do this? But rather than seeing the amazing about this, as its not possible in a lot of other countries, you reach the conclusion that Norwegian culture is boring, yet it actually allow you to experience any culture or religion that you like, as you have religious freedom. Do you get why its a bit confusing, lets say you lived in a highly Islamic country which didn't allow religious freedom or where the minorities are really looked down at or treated bad, would that be less boring?

To me it just sounds like you wished there were more Norwegian buddhists, yet you also want a mixture of cultures where people accept each other beliefs. So ain't Norway a pretty decent place to talk with and meet people with different cultural backgrounds?

In it self it does not matter where i live, i live a life from within and not so interested in the outside word (physical world) But when i do go out and see or hear how people speak to each others, that is not a pleasant experince and ofcourse you will experience this anywhere you go in the world today. But the meaning of the statment "bord of Norwegian culture) is that it seem that nobody care anymore.
I do not want everyone to become Buddhists that is not any goal. but what i do still wish for is that people can see people as people and not judge them from where they come from or what culture/religion they hold.
Maybe what i trying to say is that human beings need more compassion toward each other.

 

[Nimos]

In it self it does not matter where i live, i live a life from within and not so interested in the outside word (physical world) But when i do go out and see or hear how people speak to each others, that is not a pleasant experince and ofcourse you will experience this anywhere you go in the world today. But the meaning of the statment "bord of Norwegian culture) is that it seem that nobody care anymore.
I do not want everyone to become Buddhists that is not any goal. but what i do still wish for is that people can see people as people and not judge them from where they come from or what culture/religion they hold.
Maybe what i trying to say is that human beings need more compassion toward each other.

Ok I see what you mean and to that I would agree, it seems to happen all over the world or at least in Europe with all the stuff going on. And no solution seem to be available, I don't think Norwegians are alone in this, the same thing is happening in Denmark. And honestly I think a huge part of it, is due to all the mess going on the world, climate agreements seems largely to be a joke and politicians unable to come up with any solutions, Brexit at least in EU, is a complete mess, refugees and no good solution, Trump going mental in the US, Putin crazy as hell, China doing whatever they please. To me, things just seem to be one huge mess with people in a lot of countries starting to loose confidence in politicians and the way things are being done, they talk and talk, one promise after another and nothing really seems to improve or change for the better. And to me part of this frustration end up, as you are saying to blame foreigners, but I think the issues are much deeper.