Why do the majority moderate allow the extremist Islamic majority to control them?

[Sahar]

not4me ~

we are also talking about those extremist Muslims who call for the deaths of non-Muslims on nearly any grounds, who support acts of terrorism against non-combatants around the world to make a point about Islamic values and politics, who advocate for more violent and capitol readings and implementations of the Quran and sunnah, etc.

Of course Ayani, countering extremist ideologies is through the moderate thinking and schools; ideology vs ideology and thank God the books and lectures of moderate scholars are available in every place and the moderate Islamic institutions fill the Islamic countries but when it comes to violence and blood shedding, this is another level and we should resort to every possible means to stop such criminals.

 

[Cobblestones]

Did I say anything thing about violence? You ask what would Gandhi would do? Well, he certainly wouldn't just sit around and let it happen. Gandhi would stand up to evil, following the teaching of Jesus Christ, as he did in his life. It is so stupid that you would even mention Gandhi in that context, this a man who continued forward as they beat him, imprisoned him and killed his country men. The non-violent philosophy is not one of rolling over in a ball and "living peacefully". Turn the other cheek, as Gandhi interpreted it, meant to face the evil and not turn away from it.

Gandhi's main weapons were his voice, his journal (newspaper) and his public protesting. These weapon need to be more employed against terrorism.

OK. We are on the same page then. I thought you were advocating adopting your enemy's tactics.

 

[Cobblestones]

If u dont attack them back,they bomb you again and again,as they are doing in India for example.

This is what I thought Jeremiah was referring to. Sorry to have confused the two posters...

 

[Cobblestones]

Of course Ayani, countering extremist ideologies is through the moderate thinking and schools; ideology vs ideology and thank God the books and lectures of moderate scholars are available in every place and the moderate Islamic institutions fill the Islamic countries but when it comes to violence and blood shedding, this is another level and we should resort to every possible means to stop such criminals.

Including taking them on ourselves and placing our families at risk? I think not. That is what the military & police are for. Then again, if the military and police are the offenders, what do you do?

 

[Sahar]

Including taking them on ourselves and placing our families at risk? I think not. That is what the military & police are for. Then again, if the military and police are the offenders, what do you do?

Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say.

 

[Cobblestones]

Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say.

You said, "we should resort to every possible means to stop such criminals" and I am asking just how far we really should go. I am also saying that if the police and military are corrupt and the cause of violence, do we also take up arms against them or do we use non-violent forms of protest? Just curious what your thinking is here...

 

[Sahar]

You said, "we should resort to every possible means to stop such criminals" and I am asking just how far we really should go. I am also saying that if the police and military are corrupt and the cause of violence, do we also take up arms against them or do we use non-violent forms of protest? Just curious what your thinking is here...

By "every possible means" I meant including violence through the police and such.
If the government and military are corrupt, this is a touchy and hugely debatable topic at least from the Islamic point of view, I honestly need to search it deeply, so I am not ready to give an opinion. And indeed your point is relevant to the topic of extremism and violence.

There was a thread, in the Islam DIR discussing what Muslims can do if the government was corrupted if you are interested:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/80344-muslims-authoritorian-followers-4.html

 

[ragordon168]

This is exactly a link that shows what the Western media want their people to see.

I wanted to make it clear that we don't agree on who is the terrorist and the extremist.
The Palestinian or the Lebanese who fight against the Zionists are not terrorists at least according to a good sector of Arabs and Muslims. Who fight the American occupation in Iraq or Afghanistan is not a terrorist. But to many Westerners if not the most, resisting Zionists and Americans is terrorism.
Of course, there are violent groups that attack innocent civilians like what happens in Iraq...etc, I think no Muslim will clap for them except a deviated one.
The anger and hatred against the West, it's expected and not surprising. As for violence against the Western civilians in their own countries, it's denounced by the Muslim organizations there and here and by the Muslims scholars and Muslims in general.

i agree about the western definition of 'terrorist'. i am british and while i do not agree with our occupation of afghanistan i am 100% behind the troops who are risking their lives to help the afghan people.

the definition of terrorist is very particular - "terrorist (a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities"

now when the taliban/other groups bomb a market place they are terrorists but the placing of roadside bombs and ambushes of troops are classed as resistance activities (similar to the french during WW2) but western media does not deistinquish between the two.

unfortunatly the western media is biased against the iraqis/afghans. no matter what the US/UK forces do they will always be the goods guys. in a recent article a taliban sniper who shot a british troop in the back was described as "cowardly." since when do soldiers send proir warning before firing? if it had been the other way around the word would be "brave" or something to that effect.

 

[darkendless]

Who fight the American occupation in Iraq or Afghanistan is not a terrorist. But to many Westerners if not the most, resisting Zionists and Americans is terrorism.

My country being Australia is in Afghanistan, are we all terrorists as well? Would you rather not have your schools rebuilt and water set up in tribal areas which is safe to drink. Because our media is obviously all wrong please tell me which village my troops are going to plunder, rape and pillage in the next few days?

Are the Brits terrorists? They're doing the same job as Aussie, just with more troops.

On what do you base terroism?

We all know you hate the west being there but trust me, so does most of our country because we're sick of our soldiers being shot at by a bunch of ingrates who resist simply because aid comes from the west.

You also ignored a question:

What are Arab nations doing to help the situation?

 

[ragordon168]

My country being Australia is in Afghanistan, are we all terrorists as well? Would you rather not have your schools rebuilt and water set up in tribal areas which is safe to drink. Because our media is obviously all wrong please tell me which village my troops are going to plunder, rape and pillage in the next few days?

Are the Brits terrorists? They're doing the same job as Aussie, just with more troops.

On what do you base terroism?

We all know you hate the west being there but trust me, so does most of our country because we're sick of our soldiers being shot at by a bunch of ingrates who resist simply because aid comes from the west.

You also ignored a question:

What are Arab nations doing to help the situation?

terrorist is the wrong word but invader is. nato forces have no right to be in the middle east, we are only there because america wants its pound of flesh for 9/11.

last i checked the people of the countries currently occupied are grateful for the help given to them by nato forces, the taliban/ other militant groups are the ones shooting at the 'infadels'. you are seeing the minority and assuming the majority is the same.

you cant trust the media for an unbiased report. do you think the german media gave a true picture of WW2? of course not as most people would be horrified at the death camps. the media chose a good side of their war effort and ran with that leaving out the bad side.

 

[abdullah01]

The situation is far simpler than it often appears to be during debates, which at times get sidetracked making the whole thing look more complicated. And of course on a debating forum there are people who want to learn, teach, bring to attention, refute or cause havoc by resorting to personal attacks and childish rhetoric.

The disagreement, opposition, fight, or war - whatever description one prefers - in this world is about good vs evil, God vs satan. On the one side are the people who love God and appreciate the bounties of this life by being thankful to God, they love the after life and they seek to be the opposite of materialists. And on the other side there are those who oppose God by rejecting God, denying His existence, love this life - for they do not believe in an everlasting afterlife - and thus are of a materialist mindset.

The unbelievers (those who do not think of themselves as Muslims) like to define the world according to their ever changing secular/religious worldview, they have their own definitions of morality which are not uniform but subject to cultural trends. Muslims on the other hand have a religion that is very clear on all that is required for a successful living in this world and the hereafter. And while Allah commands the Muslims to share the message of Islam worldwide and to preserve the Islamic autonomy where established, the unbelievers are set on deploying imperialist tactics to try and force the Muslims to conform to their secular mindset and thus their way of life. Being the greedy materialists that they are, they set out to conquer any and all land that they can get their hands on. And of course history is riddled with examples of how Caucasians with a superiority complex - unrivaled by any other group of people with the exception of the Jews - have stolen land from others and then proceeded to oppress the people for centuries.

It is a sad sight indeed that today the people of the so called civilized world, are still acting in the same manner while they hypocritically wonder why the fruits of their labor are so poisonous. There is a clear double standard in assessing who the bad apple is, and arrogance has captured the hearts and minds of these unbelievers to the extend that they have to come up with ridiculous reasons for why they are on the receiving end of what they themselves are inflicting upon others. One of such reasons is the supposed envy for what they deem "freedom". Think "girls gone wild" and the right to sodomize each other. And while the Muslims according to these unbelievers are supposedly envious of that quick road to moral, psychological, spiritual and physical deterioration, the unbelievers find themselves busy protecting their precious "liberties" of sex, drugs and rock n roll which of course really needs defending with a billion dollar army.

Their conclusion is that the Muslims are trying to catch STDs, stress induced cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks, they want to get raped, parade their women like lust objects for sale on tv... just.. like.. the unbelievers. And since they can't mess themselves up as quickly as the unbelievers can they are so envious that - according to the unbelievers - "they are coming to get us".

There is no shortage of unbelievers on this board and indeed in this world, that only have one way of debating or discussing a topic pertaining to Islam and/or Muslims. Which is the blatant show of arrogance, bloated egos, (personal) insults, circular reasoning as a result of utter hatred for Islam and Muslims and the long list of insecurities that plague them.

There are of course exceptions to this rule, there are unbelievers who are open minded, respectful and humble and they are not the ones I have spoken of. By the will of Allah it is these exceptional unbelievers that find themselves on a journey for truth and end up finding it in Islam.

Moderate Muslims according to Islamic understanding are those Muslims that do not deviate from the right path, they do not move too much to the right nor too much to the left they stay in the middle on the straight path and they do not compromise the truth for the sake of pleasing anyone else.

 

[Kerr]

imperialist tactics

Don´t think "unbelievers" means the political power in the west. I am against the war in Iraq and Afganistan.

 

[Kerr]

Muslims on the other hand have a religion that is very clear on all that is required for a successful living in this world and the hereafter.

You could say that about other religions as well, like Christianity.

 

[Kerr]

Their conclusion is that the Muslims are trying to catch STDs, stress induced cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks, they want to get raped, parade their women like lust objects for sale on tv... just.. like.. the unbelievers. And since they can't mess themselves up as quickly as the unbelievers can they are so envious that - according to the unbelievers - "they are coming to get us".

How about no, we do not believe in that? Honestly cannot think how anyone could.

 

[abdullah01]

Yes each group of people that has a set of beliefs which they share can and does make this claim of absolute truth.

 

[Kerr]

The unbelievers (those who do not think of themselves as Muslims) like to define the world according to their ever changing secular/religious worldview, they have their own definitions of morality which are not uniform but subject to cultural trends. Muslims on the other hand have a religion that is very clear on all that is required for a successful living in this world and the hereafter. And while Allah commands the Muslims to share the message of Islam worldwide and to preserve the Islamic autonomy where established, the unbelievers are set on deploying imperialist tactics to try and force the Muslims to conform to their secular mindset and thus their way of life. Being the greedy materialists that they are, they set out to conquer any and all land that they can get their hands on. And of course history is riddled with examples of how Caucasians with a superiority complex - unrivaled by any other group of people with the exception of the Jews - have stolen land from others and then proceeded to oppress the people for centuries.

Never heard of Djingis Khan I take it?

 

[Kerr]

Yes each group of people that has a set of beliefs which they share can and does make this claim of absolute truth.

Depends on the individual if they claim it to be an absolute truth, but honestly, of all the ******** I have heard about Muslims I have never heard something as rediculous as that. So, maybe there is some nut out there that believes that Muslims wants to get all those things, but do not think all of us believe that... we aren´t beasts, you know :no:.

 

[Kerr]

The situation is far simpler than it often appears to be during debates, which at times get sidetracked making the whole thing look more complicated. And of course on a debating forum there are people who want to learn, teach, bring to attention, refute or cause havoc by resorting to personal attacks and childish rhetoric.

The disagreement, opposition, fight, or war - whatever description one prefers - in this world is about good vs evil, God vs satan. On the one side are the people who love God and appreciate the bounties of this life by being thankful to God, they love the after life and they seek to be the opposite of materialists. And on the other side there are those who oppose God by rejecting God, denying His existence, love this life - for they do not believe in an everlasting afterlife - and thus are of a materialist mindset.

The unbelievers (those who do not think of themselves as Muslims) like to define the world according to their ever changing secular/religious worldview, they have their own definitions of morality which are not uniform but subject to cultural trends. Muslims on the other hand have a religion that is very clear on all that is required for a successful living in this world and the hereafter. And while Allah commands the Muslims to share the message of Islam worldwide and to preserve the Islamic autonomy where established, the unbelievers are set on deploying imperialist tactics to try and force the Muslims to conform to their secular mindset and thus their way of life. Being the greedy materialists that they are, they set out to conquer any and all land that they can get their hands on. And of course history is riddled with examples of how Caucasians with a superiority complex - unrivaled by any other group of people with the exception of the Jews - have stolen land from others and then proceeded to oppress the people for centuries.

It is a sad sight indeed that today the people of the so called civilized world, are still acting in the same manner while they hypocritically wonder why the fruits of their labor are so poisonous. There is a clear double standard in assessing who the bad apple is, and arrogance has captured the hearts and minds of these unbelievers to the extend that they have to come up with ridiculous reasons for why they are on the receiving end of what they themselves are inflicting upon others. One of such reasons is the supposed envy for what they deem "freedom". Think "girls gone wild" and the right to sodomize each other. And while the Muslims according to these unbelievers are supposedly envious of that quick road to moral, psychological, spiritual and physical deterioration, the unbelievers find themselves busy protecting their precious "liberties" of sex, drugs and rock n roll which of course really needs defending with a billion dollar army.

Their conclusion is that the Muslims are trying to catch STDs, stress induced cardiovascular diseases, strokes, heart attacks, they want to get raped, parade their women like lust objects for sale on tv... just.. like.. the unbelievers. And since they can't mess themselves up as quickly as the unbelievers can they are so envious that - according to the unbelievers - "they are coming to get us".

There is no shortage of unbelievers on this board and indeed in this world, that only have one way of debating or discussing a topic pertaining to Islam and/or Muslims. Which is the blatant show of arrogance, bloated egos, (personal) insults, circular reasoning as a result of utter hatred for Islam and Muslims and the long list of insecurities that plague them.

There are of course exceptions to this rule, there are unbelievers who are open minded, respectful and humble and they are not the ones I have spoken of. By the will of Allah it is these exceptional unbelievers that find themselves on a journey for truth and end up finding it in Islam.

Moderate Muslims according to Islamic understanding are those Muslims that do not deviate from the right path, they do not move too much to the right nor too much to the left they stay in the middle on the straight path and they do not compromise the truth for the sake of pleasing anyone else.

To put my impression of this short, this is a simplified view of the world that generalizes people based on faith and do not have much foundation in that thing called the real world.

As about hatred for Islam, no, I do not hate Islam or Muslims. What I am not found of are two things, authority based morality and condemning what is different. But that applies to all religions, and it doesn´t go over in hate. Have read a few things I actually like in Islam.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Abdullah ,your posts portrays your own image and how your religion views other religions.It portrays your view of how superior your religion is ,when compared to others.

By the will of Allah it is these exceptional unbelievers that find themselves on a journey for truth and end up finding it in Islam.

It sums up ur view on other religions.