Why do Christians get away with calling the bible the good book?

[SHANMAC]

Honestly, I think you might be overanalyzing it a bit. Isn't it quite possible and plausible that people have dubbed it the "good book" for reasons completely unrelated to the actual content/morality of the book itself? The bible is their religion - it is a good book for them. Just a thought.

 

[McBell]

To me

herein lies the problem.
It is nothing more than your opinion.

Obviously the vast majority of people disagree with that opinion.

BTW...
You did not address the whole "getting away with" thing.

 

[Dano]

Almost everything said on this site is opinion. I suppose it is the point of this forum to discuss and rate opinions. So what's the problem?


However, opinion and opinion is not always the same thing. One may be supported by evidence or knowledge, another not and for some no evidence can be provided (e.g. likes/dislikes). Unfortunately the same word is used for either.

Of course, everybody has the legal entitlement to an opinion in most countries (unless religion forbids it). It is also an opinion that pigs can fly (self-propelled), however, most people would remain critical.

So why not discuss the underlying evidence when it’s available rather than calling everything an opinion as if that puts it on an equal level? Anybody can form an opinion but maybe it is wiser to look at the evidence first.

 

[ellenjanuary]

o.k...
But what are those opinions or beliefs based on. Shouldn’t they be based on facts? The bible is available for anybody to read and test.

I doubt that most people who have those opinions and beliefs have actually read the bible themselves. Most get fed with the ‘good’ bits by the church and are even indoctrinated that some bad bits are good because god said so (the worst bits are left out anyway).

I cannot comprehend how any unbiased and open-minded reader can come to the conclusion that this book is ‘good’ and fit to serve as moral guidance.

To me the OT tells the story of a bad tempered, jealous, vain, cruel, racist... god who prefers one race above all others as long as they do what he wishes and pray, praise, and sacrifice to him.

A god that promotes or commits genocide (Numb. 31:15; Deut. 20: 16-18, great flood, Joshua, etc.), murder (killing of many Israelites during Exodus, Egyptian first born in Exodus 12:12, Numb.15:32 and many of the other unjust laws), human sacrifice (Judges11:39) and animal sacrifices (all of Leviticus), unjust and ridiculous laws (Leviticus,Numbers) etc. ,etc. And it gets even worse in the NT with Revelations.

This is only a small selection. Maybe you can read it yourself and tell me what’s so good about it?

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. KJV

God was rather specific about racism and racial tolerance, as the above line shows. In fact, he uses nearly the same line twice on the page.

 

[McBell]

Almost everything said on this site is opinion. I suppose it is the point of this forum to discuss and rate opinions. So what's the problem?


However, opinion and opinion is not always the same thing. One may be supported by evidence or knowledge, another not and for some no evidence can be provided (e.g. likes/dislikes). Unfortunately the same word is used for either.

Of course, everybody has the legal entitlement to an opinion in most countries (unless religion forbids it). It is also an opinion that pigs can fly (self-propelled), however, most people would remain critical.

So why not discuss the underlying evidence when it’s available rather than calling everything an opinion as if that puts it on an equal level? Anybody can form an opinion but maybe it is wiser to look at the evidence first.

and yet you STILL have not addressed the whole "getting away with" thing.

 

[Jamal_a_Man]

For the same reason muslims call the koran a miracle. Because they believe it to be so (I'm not necessarily saying it is or isn't - (I think that your criticism of it is a bit simplified, although I also think they tend to have too high an opinion of it too).

muslims call the qur'an a miracle because Allah himself said that it is a miracle from him to us. so we a re justified in our speech.

Chrisitans have no right to call the bible the good book (althought i have to say there is alot of good stuff in it), however, the bible does not identify itself as 'the good book' in actual fact the bible does not identify itself at all. no where in the bible is the word bible mentioned. bible only means book.....

 

[McBell]

Chrisitans have no right to call the bible the good book

based on what?

 

[Jamal_a_Man]

the bible is a book with four pieces of evidence:

1) the word of god
2) the word of jesus
3) the word of the historian
4) pornogrpahic and fairy tales.

no i am not being silly at all. if you read the bible all four pieces of evidence will stare you in the face. Thus the bible has bits in it which are excellent and i love to read such as those belonging to God and Jesus and some parts of the historians.

Other parts writen by the historians i cudnt even read to my mother. and are shamefull in a book which claims to be the insspired word of god.

The Quran on the other hand has one piece of evidence, the owrd of God, and it only claims that it is from God.
The word of the prophet and the Sahaba (followers of the prophet at the time) is recorded in the Hadith.
Fairy tales and rubish are in the arabian nights.

the difference between the two is that the bible is a book with good, bad and rubbish all in one and the quran is just the good stuff with hadith separate and rubbish separate.

 

[Jamal_a_Man]

based on what?

they may call it A good book, but not THE good book. THE good book insinuates that that is its name. however, no where in the bible does the bible identify itself as THE GOOD BOOK. infact the Bible is a Nameless BOOK. Most books identify themselves and their purpose, does the bible identify itself and its purpose?

 

[Enoch07]

Reading the bible it becomes obvious that it is full of racism, injustice, murder, genocide, etc, either directly committed or ordered by god.

Just to mention one passage from Numbers 13:15-17: 31:15 Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Peor – which resulted in the plague among the community of the Lord! 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man. 31:18 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.

How can anybody get away with calling it the good book?

Christians call it the good book because we study and look for the good messages in the book. As with most things in life it is like an inkblot card. If you purposefully go looking for bad things you will see bad things. If you look for the good messages you will see the good messages therefore we can call it the good book, because it inspires us.

On a side note. You have taken taken the scripture in Numbers completely out of context, but then again that is what happens when you are only looking for and expecting bad things to support your bias. Read all of Numbers with an open and honest mind, instead of hatred and bias, then perhaps the truth of it will shine upon you.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Reading the bible it becomes obvious that it is full of racism, injustice, murder, genocide, etc, either directly committed or ordered by god.

Just to mention one passage from Numbers 13:15-17: 31:15 Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Peor – which resulted in the plague among the community of the Lord! 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man. 31:18 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.

How can anybody get away with calling it the good book?

Basically the "west" has a christian tradition and still believe in christianity.
Those that believe it get away with it (amongst each other) because they believe it.
Generally many still have problems breaking with the traditions and claiming something as evil which a significant number of people still believe in (although in some other form) is something which could cause some "unrest". And "unrest" is what many are afraid of.

 

[Troublemane]

well sure, it was thomas jefferson who wrote, that men are wont to suffer an evil they know, versus acting/thinking independently. I think this is true of people everywhere.

 

[blackout]

I personally am much more interested in 'The Good Life'.

 

[Dano]

On a side note. You have taken taken the scripture in Numbers completely out of context, but then again that is what happens when you are only looking for and expecting bad things to support your bias. Read all of Numbers with an open and honest mind, instead of hatred and bias, then perhaps the truth of it will shine upon you.

O.k, lets see if context makes it any better? (I try to make it brief)

It starts at Numbers 25:1 when the Israeli men could not abstain from indulging in sex with the Moabite women and then the women get blamed for inviting the men to sacrifice to their gods (Baal of Peor).
25:4 God is fuming (he is very jealous of other gods) and orders all the leaders of the men to be killed and ‘exposed to god’ in daylight.

25:6 Then one Midianite woman is seen to enter a tent with the son of an Israelite leader.

25:7 The son of the Israeli high priest follows them and drives a spear through both of them. This pleases god so much that he ends his plague against the Israelis (which killed 24,000, incidentally) and rewards him with lasting priesthood..

25:16 God orders genocide of the Midianites: ‘kill them’!

After lots of counting (census) and strange rules and ceremonies god orders the Israelis to take vengeance on the Midianites 31:1..

31:7... They kill every man and burn all the towns and settlements. However, they allow the women and children to live (some glimmer of compassion?) and take them as part of the loot to Moses.

31: 14-18 This is when Moses gets very angry and orders them to kill all the non-virgin women and male children, but to take the virgin girls for themselves.

(Incidentally, the Midianites are the same people that helped Moses when he was in trouble and had to flee from the Pharaoh and his father-in-law is a member of this tribe Exodus 2:16...)

...then some ritualised cleansing...

31:28... To top it all, instead of doubts about the terrible slaughter, god demands his share of the loot ... and gets 32 virgin girls (among livestock, etc.).

To me this is a sick story!? Read it yourself if you don’t believe it and tell me what is good about it!

What moral guidance are we supposed to derive from this sanctioned genocide, murder, rape?, enslavement, and child abuse

 

[Commoner]

What moral guidance are we supposed to derive from this sanctioned genocide, murder, rape?, enslavement, and child abuse

Now wait a minute, what's wrong with murder and rape? :areyoucra

 

[Buttons*]

Reading the bible it becomes obvious that it is full of racism, injustice, murder, genocide, etc, either directly committed or ordered by god.

Just to mention one passage from Numbers 13:15-17: 31:15 Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel of Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Peor – which resulted in the plague among the community of the Lord! 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man. 31:18 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.

How can anybody get away with calling it the good book?

*sigh* nag nag nag....

I think the people who used to refer to the Bible as the "good book" were mostly referring to the Gospels (good news) and generally took the old testament to be a history of God. Most people don't even refer to it that way now... so what's with the complaint?

 

[Dano]

I suppose most Christians would object to the suggestion that the OT is irrelevant or not true as it tells the story of the Judeo-Christian god, ‘the father’ of Jesus. Is Jesus not thought to have come in the name of this god and is this god not still in charge?
Jesus says himself in Matthew 5:17 that he has not come to change any letter of the [FONT=&quot]Law (i.e. Torah, OT) [/FONT] but to fulfil it.
As this god is supposed to be timeless, omniscient, and omnipotent, etc, he would be the same then as now – which I find quite scary!

And is the NT really that nice? The book of Revelation is not exactly a story of love and forgiveness.

 

[blackout]

Oh let's all just be honest.

It's a CONFUSING and often very boring book.

not a good one.

Good books... well... you don't have to FORCE yourself to read them all the way through.
And you don't have to read 25 MORE books to explain the one you just read.

Not to mention all of the heated arguing and disagreement it seems to cause!
And so much pressure to understand it "the right way".
As if your life depends on it or something.

nah. If I never pick up a bible again, I probably won't even notice.


But ...the book store has many sections for a reason.

 

[Dano]

Yes, the bible is tedious and should be irrelevant to modern life. I would not waste a minute on it, if it was just the book of a cranky group of people who want to believe in some supernatural personal god in their privathy.
Unfortunately, it is the basis for a very powerful church that has still a privileged position in western society. People have been brainwashed and indoctrinated from early life to believe that there is a god and that the bible tells a story relevant for moral guidance.

Politicians still start wars because they think god told them so, and the Church meddles into many aspects of life (science, birth control, sex life etc.) from their privileged position. All this is based on a bible that tells a completely different story from what is claimed by them. This is why I think it is important to get familiar with the bible and to criticise it accordingly. But maybe nobody is really too bothered...

 

[McBell]

they may call it A good book, but not THE good book. THE good book insinuates that that is its name. however, no where in the bible does the bible identify itself as THE GOOD BOOK. infact the Bible is a Nameless BOOK. Most books identify themselves and their purpose, does the bible identify itself and its purpose?

Actually, the Bible is a collection of books.

I mean, come on now, if you are going to go to such lengths to nit pick, at least get the facts straight....