Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Subduction Zone]

i believe it's a reliable source because it came from professionals.

That alone does not make it reliable. And how do you know that it was by professionals?

 

[sojourner]

God does everything with an order and a purpose. Why would Jesus have died for our iniquities if not to take our place? Jesus is the judge who took the place of the person who committed a crime.

Another way to look at it is that Jesus died because of our iniquity. The sacrifice was that Jesus was willing to go the distance for us in the face of overwhelming systemic injustice, and that he ultimately overcame that heinous power on our behalf.

 

[sojourner]

Sin is anything that doesn't show respect for oneself and others.

The need for law comes from God. God is not the author of confusion and gave is a need for order and morality.

Sin is separation from God. Sin is anything that is selfish. Sin may LEAD to criminal acts, but the act is an outward sign of an inner separation or self-centeredness.

Laws address the symptom. They don’t address the cause.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are over two billion Christians out of a total world population of over seven billion people

That's a lot of people

Clearly, there is enough evidence for millions and millions of people

So, to answer your question: Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

I'd say: Because he didn't need to for there to be billions of Christians?

Although yes, had he left more non-biblical evidence behind there would probably be many more followers, which raises the question: does God want everyone to be a Christian?

If there were one christian and millions if Buddhist, would that make christianity less true because of the majority?

Humans are herd animals, followed by whatever authority tells us, with no skepticism as long as theirs a PhD and MD slapped to their name.

Theres a study I heard on TED talk about a group of people as the controlled group.

The researchers set out a puzzle question to where there was oy one answer.

Subject 1 picked the wrong answer while the other subject 2 in doubt but picked the right one.

Then researchers set a group of people with subject 1 and 2. Majority of the group picked the wrong answer and subject 2 picked the same doubting his judgement even though when he was with one person he didn't budge.

Now add that to personal experiences, bias, and upbringing. This doesn't mean it's true, just means as humans we tend to side with the group and feel cognitive dissonance when we resist.

 

[Skywalker]

Sin is separation from God. Sin is anything that is selfish. Sin may LEAD to criminal acts, but the act is an outward sign of an inner separation or self-centeredness.

Laws address the symptom. They don’t address the cause.

That's why Jesus died to reconcile God and man. Inner separation and self-centeredness goes against God's laws.

Laws are also about being just. That's why God came down to die for our sins. We could never pay the price for our sins as finite beings, and God could never ignore our sin, for the same reason a just judge cannot let a criminal go unpunished.

 

[Onoma]

I could propose a Gedanken that is usually not thought of:

Hypothetically - let's say the Bible actually contains a hidden mathematical proof of the existence of God, but this proof is only revealed to one person ( By something like the " Maggid " of Judaism - Magid (Jewish mysticism) - Wikipedia

That one person is the same person the book gives prophesies about , therefore it is their sole responsibility to reveal to others.

Normally, people take the approach of " Oh, I read the Bible 15 times, I know what it says, what you propose is silly "

The problem is that it isn't silly, it's actually the standard tradition of priestly literature in the days the Bible came to fruition ( Priests were revealed things by tutelary deities and texts specifically warn about attempting to interpret texts if one is not a priest of that god they serve under, iow, they warn against " false prophets " )

So, the reality of the situation, is that there may be " evidence " ( Or even proof ) right in front of you, but until that one person shows you, it will remain hidden

In revealing such " hidden " things, it cements that person's stature as a " Prophet " ( Or what ever other word you like )

I've always felt that if there were a hidden proof / evidence in the Bible, it could only be revealed by one person, and if this is indeed the case, then there's no rabbi, preacher, pastor, theologian, mathematician or scientist that could expose it, no matter how wise and learned they thought they were

Now if you really think this is a silly proposal, I'd like an explanation of why so much effort was made to maintain the order of the letters / numbers in the Torah ( There are two different letter counts given for Torah, btw, so the claim of a perfectly copied text is pure wonk )

I've studied Mesopotamian and Egyptian literature for years now and have found not a single example of priestly literature that required maintaining the order of letters, so for me, this convention of the Torah must be explained

It must be explained in the context of the traditions of writing priestly literature of the day, otherwise it's ignoring tradition

 

[Skywalker]

Another way to look at it is that Jesus died because of our iniquity. The sacrifice was that Jesus was willing to go the distance for us in the face of overwhelming systemic injustice, and that he ultimately overcame that heinous power on our behalf.

Jesus came to teach us how to live and to make a way for us to be reconciled to God, not for social liberation. We need to be reconciled to God, because to God our sin is crooked and twisted.

Hebrew Word Definition: Iniquity | AHRC

Already we are beginning to see the “concrete” meaning in the Hebrew word that lies behind the English word “iniquity,” it is something crooked or twisted.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Jesus showed no signs of being a mentally ill person. Psychologists said he wasn't paranoid or schizophrenic.

I'm with Subduction Zone. WHY do you keep raising "Jesus mentally ill" when I never mentioned mentally ill?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm with Subduction Zone. WHY do you keep raising "Jesus mentally ill" when I never mentioned mentally ill?

It was one of C,S. Lewis's three possibilities. They were Liar, Lord, or Loon. I pointed out that he forgot a fourth L Legend. But since he could not deal with the most likely L he had to deal with one that was never claimed instead..

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I could propose a Gedanken that is usually not thought of:

Hypothetically - let's say the Bible actually contains a hidden mathematical proof of the existence of God, but this proof is only revealed to one person ( By something like the " Maggid " of Judaism - Magid (Jewish mysticism) - Wikipedia

That one person is the same person the book gives prophesies about , therefore it is their sole responsibility to reveal to others.

Normally, people take the approach of " Oh, I read the Bible 15 times, I know what it says, what you propose is silly "

The problem is that it isn't silly, it's actually the standard tradition of priestly literature in the days the Bible came to fruition ( Priests were revealed things by tutelary deities and texts specifically warn about attempting to interpret texts if one is not a priest of that god they serve under, iow, they warn against " false prophets " )

So, the reality of the situation, is that there may be " evidence " ( Or even proof ) right in front of you, but until that one person shows you, it will remain hidden

In revealing such " hidden " things, it cements that person's stature as a " Prophet " ( Or what ever other word you like )

I've always felt that if there were a hidden proof / evidence in the Bible, it could only be revealed by one person, and if this is indeed the case, then there's no rabbi, preacher, pastor, theologian, mathematician or scientist that could expose it, no matter how wise and learned they thought they were

Now if you really think this is a silly proposal, I'd like an explanation of why so much effort was made to maintain the order of the letters / numbers in the Torah ( There are two different letter counts given for Torah, btw, so the claim of a perfectly copied text is pure wonk )

I've studied Mesopotamian and Egyptian literature for years now and have found not a single example of priestly literature that required maintaining the order of letters, so for me, this convention of the Torah must be explained

It must be explained in the context of the traditions of writing priestly literature of the day, otherwise it's ignoring tradition

If God had to code the truth to hide it from everybody but a select few then he is not God. He's a made-up god who conforms to the characteristics the people who invented him gave to him.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm with Subduction Zone. WHY do you keep raising "Jesus mentally ill" when I never mentioned mentally ill?

We were discussing Jesus having pure motives. If Jesus was motivated by mental illness, that wouldn't have been pure motives. If he was a liar, that wouldn't be pure motives either. It's doubtful that Jesus was legend. Even most atheists don't believe it.

 

[Skywalker]

That alone does not make it reliable. And how do you know that it was by professionals?

I don't believe they lied. While it's possible they lied, it's also possible they didn't lie. I believe they didn't lie because what they said matches descriptions of the behavior of Jesus. Jesus exhibited sublime moral standards in the sermon on the mount. and his teachings have the ring of truth to most people. His sayings permeate society to this day and his enemies could not find any sin in him. He had spotless character. Can someone whose words are the greatest moral teachings the world has ever known, and whose words and deeds have had the greatest impact on this world-could that man at the same time have been a liar about Himself, God, and where humanity would spend eternity?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't believe they lied. While it's possible they lied, it's also possible they didn't lie. I believe they didn't lie because what they said matches descriptions of the behavior of Jesus. Jesus exhibited sublime moral standards in the sermon on the mount. and his teachings have the ring of truth to most people. His sayings permeate society to this day and his enemies could not find any sin in him. He had spotless character. Can someone whose words are the greatest moral teachings the world has ever known, and whose words and deeds have had the greatest impact on this world-could that man at the same time have been a liar about Himself, God, and where humanity would spend eternity?

One does not need to lie to be wrong. Though the sources that you use quite often do so.

As to Jesus what makes you think that he was the greatest moral teacher that the Earth has seen?

 

[Skywalker]

One does not need to lie to be wrong. Though the sources that you use quite often do so.

As to Jesus what makes you think that he was the greatest moral teacher that the Earth has seen?

The Sermon on the Mount teaches to love your enemies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Sermon on the Mount teaches to love your enemies.

But he was not the first with that idea:

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy."
(the Akkadian "Counsels of Wisdom", circa 2000 BC)

"In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustible."
(the Buddhist scripture "Dhammapada")

"Return love for hatred. Otherwise, when a great hatred is reconciled, some of it will surely remain. How can this end in goodness? "
(the Taoist "T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien", circa 200 BC.)

 

[Skywalker]

But he was not the first with that idea:

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy."
(the Akkadian "Counsels of Wisdom", circa 2000 BC)

"In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustible."
(the Buddhist scripture "Dhammapada")

"Return love for hatred. Otherwise, when a great hatred is reconciled, some of it will surely remain. How can this end in goodness? "
(the Taoist "T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien", circa 200 BC.)

The sermon on the mount is considered the greatest sermon in history.

 

[Skywalker]

But he was not the first with that idea:

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy."
(the Akkadian "Counsels of Wisdom", circa 2000 BC)

"In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustible."
(the Buddhist scripture "Dhammapada")

"Return love for hatred. Otherwise, when a great hatred is reconciled, some of it will surely remain. How can this end in goodness? "
(the Taoist "T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien", circa 200 BC.)

You don't need Buddha to know that hate is wrong and love dispels hate. Buddha saying that doesn't put him on the same level as Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The sermon on the mount is considered the greatest sermon in history.

By Christians. What do other groups think?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't need Buddha to know that hate is wrong and love dispels hate. Buddha saying that doesn't put him on the same level as Jesus.

Your desperation is showing.

 

[Skywalker]

By Christians. What do other groups think?

Even non-believers view Christ as a great teacher, like Buddhists and Hindus.