Why did God need to learn Obedience?

[UnityNow101]

You are right in saying that God can be whatever He would like to be. He can be three or four or five or six or seven or eight or nine. But where to stop? Have you ever read where it is said that God is the same today, yesterday and forever? And we read that God has said that He is ONE, not three. There is no need to split God into three as we see all throughout the Bible a Jesus that is submissive to His Father, the Almighty.

I believe that people desperately wanted something tangible to worship as has always been the case as seen in the various idols and the like that people worship. They chose Jesus to become their God, going against the very texts that they hold so dear. They sold out the true concept of God in favor of something that they perceived with their own eyes to be the truth. Woe to those that attribute to God that which has not been revealed by the Messengers...

 

[slabbey06]

That's another point that goes against the very scripture that people say claims that Jesus is God. Jesus was tempted by Satan, and we learn in James 1:13 that God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He tempt anyone.

Jesus was fully God and fully Man. He was tempted in His humanity, not his deity.

Every passage in the Bible must be looked at in it's proper context. When we see in one place a passage that seems to imply that Jesus is God, we must look at it in light of the 20 other verses that state quite the opposite. We must be diligent in our search and look at things with an open mind free of all of our leaning towards our preconceived ideas regarding Jesus...Read the Bible as if you have never read it before with new eyes free of all obstacles blinding one's view.

You are completely right that every passage must be looked at in it's proper context. Read the Bible as you've never read it before and see how Jesus claimed to be God...and how the religious leaders of his day wanted to kill him for His claims.

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. John 8:58-59. The people knew full well that Jesus was claiming to be "I AM" (Exod. 3:13-14).

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 14:9.

Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:24-29



These are just three passages of many in which Jesus either claims to be God, or does not deny that He is when someone else calls Him God.

 

[slabbey06]

Oops... this quote is mine, not UnityNow101.... "Jesus was fully God and fully Man. He was tempted in His humanity, not his deity."
Sorry UnityNow101, my cut and paste skills are lacking today

 

[dawny0826]

Yes, I realize that much.

I was hoping to debate this with someone who believes in the trinity and find out what it means from their point of view. If Christ and the Father are the same, who is Christ being obedient to?

The purpose of God becoming flesh was to teach us true obedience and sacrifice by example. Human to human.

He "came down" to our level because He loves us that much.

It amazes me when I read the OT the types of miracles that God performed in front of man's eyes and man STILL disobeyed and disbelieved.

It makes perfect sense to me that God would come to us in the flesh and live as one of us. God came to us as a Child of God, as we are all so that we could learn by HIS example and through His teachings, HOW we are supposed to commune with Him in a parent/child relationship. God's purpose in the flesh was to act as a child, as we are...to teach us obedience and then expressed the deepest love imaginable by dying (in the flesh) for us to show us what salvation is and how simple it is to find our way back to His arms...by abandoning our own flesh (as He did) and following Him.

The trinity makes perfect sense to me.

 

[UnityNow101]

That's fine..I was beginning to wonder how I could have said such a thing.

 

[JayHawes]

Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, be became the author of our eternal salvation.

Who is God being obdient to? Why would God need to learn obedience?

Could someone help me understand what is being said in Hebrews 5?

Jesus gave up his power and became man. And being man he was subject to the choice of obidience or sin. Jesus had the choice, to either do the will of the father (and suffer the cross), or to not do the will of the father (and not suffer the cross). Being God, he did not sin (he did not disobey the Father), but he was obidient in that he accomplished what he had come to do, and what he was sent to do. And did not give in to the temptation to sin, as all men usually do.

God came down and sufferd the human life, he learned like we do, ate like we do, had to use the bathroom like we do, had to learn to read and write like we do. He had to do this becuase he gave up all his power and glory. All he had with him was the power of the Holy Spirit. And so, suffering the Human life, Jesus had to learn obidience, even though he was God on Earth. But after his ressurection, all power was given to him.

 

[wizanda]

We keep informing and showing where John a Pharisee contradicts Christ and the Bible, and then you post it as truth.....Paul contradicts Christ on well over 36 points, yet you discuss it as truth....
Don't you realize, good fruit doesn't come from Bad trees.....

Zec 11:6-10
(6) For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
(7) And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Grace (Beauty), and the other I called Inheritance (Bands); and I fed the flock.
(8) Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
(9) Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
(10) And I took my staff, even Grace (Beauty), and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.


Yeshua was sent to removed Inheritance and Grace...not give, God gives....so this and many of your discussion defile the law and Yeshua own testimonies...

 

[kadzbiz]

.... Can someone explain to how two states that have contradictory properties (solid and liquid) can coexist at once? That seems infeasible to me (at least here on Earth, as it were).

I don't pretend to understand it. I was just offering a possibility to the Trinity, which I don't actually believe in myself.

Jesus gave up his power and became man. .....

He did? At what point did he do that? Give up his power that is. Did he become a man at the point he gave up his power? So, I'm assuming he was a man at the crucifixion, therefore he could never have saved himself as some people suggest he could've.

 

[vandervalley]

He did? At what point did he do that? Give up his power that is. Did he become a man at the point he gave up his power? So, I'm assuming he was a man at the crucifixion, therefore he could never have saved himself as some people suggest he could've.

I am not a Christian but from the posts I read I can see that Jesus had the power to save himself from crucifixion because he was the God.

However he didn't save himself because the very reason he came down is to show people how to be obedient to Jesus (thus God's) rules

 

[may]

Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, be became the author of our eternal salvation.

Who is God being obdient to? Why would God need to learn obedience?

Could someone help me understand what is being said in Hebrews 5?

it was Gods son Jesus who learned obedience . and he was obedient in that he was willing to go along with his fathers purpose ........ Jesus isnt God he is Gods son.

 

[may]

Here are some other translations of Hebrews 5:8-9

RSV - 8: Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered;
9: and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

NIV - 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

NASB - 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

Wycliff - 8 And when he was God's Son, he learned obedience of these things that he suffered; 9and he brought to the end is made cause of everlasting health [and he led to perfection is made cause of everlasting health] to all that obey him,

Luther - 8Und wiewohl er Gottes Sohn war, hat er doch an dem, was er litt Gehorsam gelernt. 9Und da er vollendet war, ist er geworden allen, die ihm gehorsam sind, eine Ursache zur ewigen Seligkeit.

I see a trend...

And the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; 9 and after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him,