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Featured Why did God give us physical body if spirit can live?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Apparently Christians are able to read everything about G-d in the Tanach as literal, because their god is a physical being. For Jews, our Infinite G-d does not allow for literal translations of any of the passages that speak about him.
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    a soul and a spirit are not the same thing. a soul has a physical body. a spirit doesn't necessarily have a third density terrestrial body. we're speaking of earth beings. just as i'm not a rock but have minerals in my being; so is the ABSOLUTE.

    the same reason why some think of the universe out there; unfortunately it's right here and right now. same with the idea of heaven, heaven is right here and now. this one of the 7 heavens, one of the days of the 7 days.



    binding something under conditions causes it to collapse or evolve. causing it to think in pioneering ways. causing it to realize that mind is unconditional, body is unconditional, spirit is unconditional.
     
  3. Forever_Catholic

    Forever_Catholic Active Member

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    God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He doesn’t need a body. God the Son does have one, being that He is both fully human and fully divine, but that is for our benefit, not for His own.

    As for us, we are immortal souls, whether in or out of the body. So you could say that we don't need bodies either for the purpose of existing. We need them to integrate, function, and experience earthly life as earthly creatures, which is according to God's design. After the final judgment, human souls in heaven will have incorruptible, glorified bodies with supernatural properties. Those in hell will also have new bodies that will be incorruptible, but not glorified.
     
  4. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Why a body is needed to develop spiritual qualities?
     
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  5. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    So what do Baha'is believe about animals? They grow a body and then get born into this world. Where do they go afterward?

    Now for people, as Tony likes to say "the flesh is nothing. It is the spirit that matters." But when was this spirit created? When does it get attached, or stuck, to a body? How much influence does the spirit have over the decisions the brain of the body makes? If the spirit is only along for the ride, and is now burdened by mistakes that the body made, why punish the spirit?

    Since each physical body goes through such varied circumstances, why wouldn't a spirit be allowed to live through many varied lives to learn more? Like what has a baby learned that dies from a disease before it gets a chance at life? Assuming that Baha'is are right, what has a Christian preacher learned by teaching wrong beliefs?

    But, since some religions that Baha'is say are true teach reincarnation, then Baha'is are forced to deny that those teachings are true. But, what is so wrong with letting the spirit experience life in several bodies and in several different circumstances? Wouldn't that allow for more learning? And, isn't that the point of this world? For the spirit to grow and learn?
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    At the return of Christ Jesus we all will be change from this body of flesh and blood to the Spirit.

    51--"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed"

    52-- "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"

    The last Trump being spoken of,
    is the 7th Trump in the book of Revelation, When the last ( 7th ) Trump of Revelation is sounded Christ Jesus returns.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    At the return of Christ Jesus we all will be change from this body of flesh and blood to the Spirit.

    51--"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed"

    52-- "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". 2nd Corinthians 15:51-52

    The last Trump being spoken of,
    is the 7th Trump in the book of Revelation, When the last ( 7th ) Trump of Revelation is sounded Christ Jesus returns.
     
  8. Forever_Catholic

    Forever_Catholic Active Member

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    And we will have new bodies, as described by Saint Paul.
     
  9. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

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    Why not just skip the whole body step then? Unless it's to torture people who have sick ones so they will love God more?

    Send souls for a minute bit of time out of infinity, to live as a human for what reason? Why not just be souls to begin with?

    Infinity is a long time. Life is almost invisible compared to that. And what if the purpose fails? An infinity consisting of what on a daily basis for eternity?
     
  10. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Katzpur and other Mormons might point to the following: Is the LDS View of God Consistent with the Bible?

    I’m sure they’ll also say the Holy Spirit tells them God is a physical being.
     
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Good question but very complicated.
    This physical world is like a school. God made us appear in this physical world in a physical body for this purpose. The world is a place of tests, and learning, The final result appears in our spirit. The body has natural desires, which are selfish. The spirituality is developed when one tries to resist the selfishness of body. You see in religion, there is fasting. It is a practice to resist desire to eat. It helps developing will power, which is a spiritual quality. But if there was no physical body, these practices cannot exist. Spirit has no desire to eat. Maybe, as an analogy, the relation between body and spirit is like a seed and tree. The seed is like the body, and what grows from the seed (tree and fruits) is the spirit. The seed eventually is destroyed, but it is sacrificed and what is inside grows out.
     
  12. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    So which is making the bad deeds, the physical body or the spirit, does the spirit
    guide the body or the body guide the spirit?
     
  13. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    The body pulls us toward worldly desires, and the spirit toward spiritual things. If the spirit is strong, it takes control of the body. The person will have human qualities. If the spirit is weak, the body controls, The person will become like a selfish beast. There is always a battle between the spirit and the natural body. Whichever wins, it guides us.
     
  14. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    But how the spirit 's qualities will develop if it was a bad soul?
     
  15. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    1st Corinthians 15: 46; “It is not the spiritual that comes first, but the physical, then the spiritual.

    You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is created from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE, that all information or SPIRIT, is gathered.

    “YOU,” as a human being, are Body, Soul and Spirit, but “YOU” the invisible mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN] the multi-celled androgynous body of Light beings that evolve from mankind, the MOST HIGH in the creation

    If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, which godhead should be an obedient servant to “WHO YOU ARE.”

    Then of the Thee in Me who works behind the veil,
    I lifted up my hands to find A lamp amid the Darkness;
    and I heard, as from Without----
    “The Me within Thee is blind.”----- By Omar Khayyam.

    The evolved parental spirit within you, who dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of your body, can only communicate with the outside world through YOU, the mind=Spirit, who develops within that body through the information that is taken in through the senses of that body.

    When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, from which it will be resurrected. That is, if you are counted among those of the resurrection.

    Our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of Man’ who holds himself responsible for the sins of the flesh (Mankind) in which he developed, (just as mankind developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors,) descended from his heights in time and was chosen as his God by Abraham, to whom the Lord said, “In blessing, I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply you.”

    It was He who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people. I will put ‘MY WORDS’ into his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. He will speak in MY name, and I will punish those who refuse to obey ‘MY WORDS’ that he shall speak in MY name.

    The people in the days of Jesus, knew that he was the one chosen to speak in the name of our Lord. On the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they strew his pathway with palm branches, while crying out; “Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord.”

    You cannot see the invisible mind=spirit that is who I am: the only way you can know me, is to listen to my words, which are the expression of who I am.

    When the Lord said through his chosen earthly host body ‘Jesus;’ “To have life eternal, you must eat of my body, etc,” Many followers were offended and left Jesus, but to those who remained the Lord said through the mouth of Jesus; “Eating the fleshly body is of no use at all, it is the spiritual body that gives life and ‘MY WORDS,’ are spirit and life.”

    The animal body is the womb in which the spiritual mind develops.


    This body that you see---it isn’t really me
    It’s but the womb in which I’m being formed
    For I am spirit—I am mind
    And it’s the only place you’ll find
    WHO I AM, until the day I’m finally born.For I will not be free, until this body that you see
    Has returned to the dust from whence it came
    It’s then that I’ll be born from this womb in which I’m formed
    To continue on in life’s eternal game…….The Anointed
     
  16. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I believe a person who does wrong things, or evil things, is not because his soul is bad. It is because his spirit is weak. His spiritual power is low. Thus, whatever his physical body wishes, it does. If the body wants more worldly things, even through stealing, the weak spirit cannot control the body. When the spirit becomes strong, the spiritual powers grow. The person become a more kind, generous, patient, forgiving human. Then this strong spirit takes control of the body. It directs body toward doing good things. He shows kindness. Helps the poor. Etc.
    But how a weak soul can become strong? God in each age, sends down a set of teachings. He shows a new way of life. Then the people practise the divine teachings, and live their lives according to way of His Book, they spiritually grow more. Their spirit becomes stronger and happier. When the body dies, the spirit continues to live in spiritual worlds of God. The spirit which became strong in this world, will be happier and closed to God in the world after. That is heaven. The spirit, who was weak in this life, even if, the person was rich and physically strong, in the next life will be unhappy and far from God. That is hell.
     
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  17. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    1st Corinthians 15: 46; “It is not the spiritual that comes first, but the physical, then the spiritual.

    You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is created from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE, that all information or SPIRIT, is gathered.

    “YOU,” as a human being, are Body, Soul and Spirit, but “YOU” the invisible mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human has been gathered in its evolution to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh to the inner most sanctuary of its temporary earthly tabernacle or tent, which is your physical body, as it awaits the creation of its glorious temple of incorruptible Light. [THE SON OF MAN] the multi-celled androgynous body of Light beings that evolve from mankind, the MOST HIGH in the creation

    If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and “YOU” who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality or “CONTROLLING GODHEAD” to that body, which godhead should be an obedient servant to “WHO YOU ARE.”

    Then of the Thee in Me who works behind the veil,
    I lifted up my hands to find A lamp amid the Darkness;
    and I heard, as from Without----
    “The Me within Thee is blind.”----- By Omar Khayyam.

    The evolved parental spirit within you, who dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of your body, can only communicate with the outside world through YOU, the mind=Spirit, who develops within that body through the information that is taken in through the senses of that body.

    When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU the mind or spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, from which it will be resurrected. That is, if you are counted among those of the resurrection.

    Our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of Man’ who holds himself responsible for the sins of the flesh (Mankind) in which he developed, (just as mankind developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors,) descended from his heights in time and was chosen as his God by Abraham, to whom the Lord said, “In blessing, I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply you.”

    It was He who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people. I will put ‘MY WORDS’ into his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. He will speak in MY name, and I will punish those who refuse to obey ‘MY WORDS’ that he shall speak in MY name.

    The people in the days of Jesus, knew that he was the one chosen to speak in the name of our Lord. On the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they strew his pathway with palm branches, while crying out; “Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord.”

    You cannot see the invisible mind=spirit that is who I am: the only way you can know me, is to listen to my words, which are the expression of who I am.

    When the Lord said through his chosen earthly host body ‘Jesus;’ “To have life eternal, you must eat of my body, etc,” Many followers were offended and left Jesus, but to those who remained the Lord said through the mouth of Jesus; “Eating the fleshly body is of no use at all, it is the spiritual body that gives life and ‘MY WORDS,’ are spirit and life.”

    The animal body is the womb in which the spiritual mind develops.


    This body that you see---it isn’t really me
    It’s but the womb in which I’m being formed
    For I am spirit—I am mind
    And it’s the only place you’ll find
    WHO I AM, until the day I’m finally born.
    For I will not be free, until this body that you see
    Has returned to the dust from whence it came
    It’s then that I’ll be born from this womb in which I’m formed
    To continue on in life’s eternal game…….The Anointed
     
  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    There isn't any text that explicitly says, "God has a body." There are, however, a number of passages that strongly imply that He does. And the Holy Spirit in me says He does. ;)
     
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  19. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Of course he has a body. He has made himself manifest to all, in the creation itself, See Romans 1: 18-23.

    I longed to hear someone express the words I couldn’t speak
    Reveal to me the mysteries of life that all men seek
    So I sought the men of science, who say----this world---it has no mind
    Oh they say that it’s evolving, but will die one day in time
    So then the men of piousness, with them I sat me down
    But they say, God has no body, those men in flowing gowns
    Then finally in silent dream, just me and “Who I Am”
    We floated on life’s living stream, with a pen held in my hand
    It was then the veil began to tear, in this Temple that is me
    And here, within this sanctuary, I saw the one that I will be...…The Anointed.
     
  20. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    If my soul love girls because my body can't resist them, then if I developed
    my spirit to be strong and to resist the beauty of girls will then my soul will be
    strong enough as to resist girls afterlife or if i like to steal money and
    my soul developed as not to steal will that make me a good soul afterlife
    and won't steal money any more?

    What a benefit will return to a soul when living without body in afterlife,
    what if the soul being away of God, is that hell, many people are enjoying
    life while completely away of god, so what?
     
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