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Why Believe Jesus Never Had Sex?

nPeace

Veteran Member
Yes this is called thought crime. It can be illustrated in the verse:

New International Version
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now I am not saying that God condemns homosexuals who do not act out their desires. That would require more reading that I can do at the moment.
These came to mind.

1 John 3:10
The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:14, 15
14 We know that we have passed over from death to life, because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life remaining in him.

Mark 7:20-23
20 Further, he said: “That which comes out of a man is what defiles him. 21For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings, sexual immorality, thefts, murders, 22acts of adultery, greed, acts of wickedness, deceit, brazen conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, and unreasonableness. 23All these wicked things come from within and defile a man.

Since the heart is what God sees, anyone who entertains wrong thoughts - that is, dwell on, fantasizes, desires, wishes for - that person is sinning. They need to stop, and repent in the same way as if they physically acted.
Physical sin, actually starts from dwelling on sinful thoughts.
James 1:14, 15
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
LMAO! You think that threatening me with hell from your ugly god, has any affect?

I don't believe in hell. There is no hell in the Bible except the place we all go to....the grave. The "threat" is nothing more sinister than telling you that you will sleep and never wake up.....dreadful, isn't it! God has no purpose in keeping opposers alive only to torture them forever......Why would he bother? He has more important things to do, frankly.

Think of life like the flame of a candle.....it can be snuffed out and left in the dark....or it can be relit to continue illuminating the darkness. God is the one who determines who shines again, based on what kind of person we have proven ourselves to be in this life. We are all judged on who we really are.....who we make ourselves to be, regardless of our circumstances. God will not interfere with that....he will not force us to be someone we are not.

If you don't want him in your life....your wish will be granted. But it isn't God who will disappear. You see, this is God's earth to do with as he pleases....we either want to be part of his plans for the future....or we don't. It's our choice.

Oh. My. If I cared what your "god" did, I'd not be an UnBeliever, now would I?

You seem to have based all your "UNbelief" on assumptions about God, not reality. That's your choice of course....but misunderstanding and misinterpretation can make people react to what they "assume" rather than what they "know". I see that in many responses in these forums. It saddens me. :(
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Indeed. Looking at the fiasco in Philadelphia has been .... eye-opening for many of late.

Me? I'm just sad that my basic cynicism has been re-affirmed.

...... again.

*sigh*
Yyeeeaahhhh... that’s too bad. There are so many good, decent, honest, Justice-oriented progressive ministers out there. It’s too bad the others ruin it for everyone.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Your kind has been in charge of the planet for 2,000 + years with 95% or more being "believers" in myths. Like I said, your God belief hasn't been beneficial to anything except divisiveness between people and nations and a lack of concern for the planet and ecosystems. Take basic human instinct and add a narcissistic view that some sky daddy is in your corner and you get what we got. Congratulations.

That's great you and yours are looking forward to death. Too bad you made such a mess on your way there.
It's a common mistake, so I don't hold it against you.
People often make the mistake of not being able to tell the difference between a carpenter and a guy who gets tools and calls himself a carpenter. Or more specifically someone called and sent, from someone who just runs ahead.

The scriptures said this:
2 Peter 2:1, 2
1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
3Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Three kinds of people are mentioned in these verses.

a) Followers of Christ
b) False prophets / those who deviate from Christ's teachings
c) Those who are misled by the apostates

So the analogy goes like this:
The carpenters (a), will continue to do good work.

The ones that pick up the tools and call themselves carpenters (b), will go out and do sloppy work - actually a terrible job.

The people who can't build even a dog house (c), are fooled by (b), and consider them carpenters. Beep! Big mistake.
When the people (c) see the work done by the fake carpenters (b), they complain, and cuss all the carpenters, both (a) and (b), and they even cuss the manager of the real carpenters (a).

The manager all the while is looking on, feet on the table, his chair rocking back as he kills himself with laugh, saying to himself. "See those people (c). Look how I showed up their stupidity, and blatant hypocrisy.
What. They can't tell the difference between a real carpenter and a fake.
Yet thousands of others can?
Absurd.
They were warned about this, but they simply didn't want to use my carpenters, they preferred anyone else. They got what they wanted. Ha Ha Ha." :tearsofjoy:

So things worked out in harmony with the managers will.
A retribution from God, because they did not want the truth that can save them. So God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they believe the lie - they are fooled into believing what they want, so that they all will be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Yes, you are absolutely correct, providing proof is the burden of the one making a claim. Thank you for reminding me of that basic fact. I should have pointed that out to you when you posted...
Yes, but the person is only required to me that burden if another requests it be met which I have. So you need to provide your burden then if you want you can request I meet any burden I have.
I didn't then, but, since you insist, I will now ask you to provide evidence to back up your assertion. Please note, I'm letting you off easy. I'm not even asking for proof, merely evidence.
As stated above I required you to meet your burden first therefor you have the initial obligation after you meet this demand you can make one of me.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
These came to mind.

1 John 3:10
The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:14, 15
14 We know that we have passed over from death to life, because we love the brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life remaining in him.

Mark 7:20-23
20 Further, he said: “That which comes out of a man is what defiles him. 21For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings, sexual immorality, thefts, murders, 22acts of adultery, greed, acts of wickedness, deceit, brazen conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, and unreasonableness. 23All these wicked things come from within and defile a man.

Since the heart is what God sees, anyone who entertains wrong thoughts - that is, dwell on, fantasizes, desires, wishes for - that person is sinning. They need to stop, and repent in the same way as if they physically acted.
Physical sin, actually starts from dwelling on sinful thoughts.
James 1:14, 15
Good job.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
But people *do* hand the hideous, misogynist, murder-filled bible to kids even younger than that, and tell them it's "the word of god"....!
Actually, they don't hand the bible to kids and tell them to read it. Instead they indoctrinate children with the "nice" stories and shield them from all the "hideous, misogynist, murder-filled" stories.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I would just add that as those earlier stories were incorporated into the Bible they were altered in order to fit the understanding that the author(s) had of the God they knew/believed in. There is room in my view for there being a "true" perspective in the form of objective knowledge but much less simplistic than the literalistic view that many have inherited from tradition and authority.

The people who wrote the creation story had one view of god. The people who wrote the Flood story had slightly different views. The people who wrote Exodus portrayed yet another different version.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Yes, but the person is only required to me that burden if another requests it be met which I have.
As stated above I required you to meet your burden first therefor you have the initial obligation after you meet this demand you can make one of me.

My, my. You have so many ways of ducking and dodging it's hard to keep up.

You started out with a nonsensical assertion and then toned it down it in subsequent posts when I called you on it:
Promiscuity is the root cause of all manner of evil.
It is not meant to imply that all evil is caused by promiscuity. That interpretation is absurd.
Not quite. I meant it produces quite the catalogue concerning the types of evil it results in.
Promiscuity causes a huge amount of suffering of many types.
Of all the moral failing that plague mankind promiscuity is one of the worst.

When I pointed out that promiscuity was small potatoes compared to, for example, the evils foisted upon the native populations of South America by Spanish Christian Conquistadors, you changed your tack again and demanded I supply proof.

When I pointed out that you supplied no proof for your ever changing nonsensical views on promiscuity, the best you could come up with was a childish:

Nyah, nyah - I asked you first. That's not surprising.​
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
The people who wrote the creation story had one view of god. The people who wrote the Flood story had slightly different views. The people who wrote Exodus portrayed yet another different version.

If you look closely you will find the motif of the Exodus throughout Genesis just as you find exile throughout the Bible and the Mahabharata.

The Flood story and the Creation story are interconnected thematically and all of these motifs show a process of gradual development, evolution even, that the authors wove together carefully to make one epic narrative...a narrative about the gradual development of a people's relationship with their God.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
My, my. You have so many ways of ducking and dodging it's hard to keep up.
I am simply following the same rules used for professional debates. It is the burden of the first one to be asked to justify their claims to knowledge. Only after that is done do I have a burden.

You started out with a nonsensical assertion and then toned it down it in subsequent posts when I called you on it:
Yes, once someone calls a specific claim into question I follow up with a clarification. This is the way all discussion are supposed to work.





When I pointed out that promiscuity was small potatoes compared to, for example, the evils foisted upon the native populations of South America by Spanish Christian Conquistadors, you changed your tack again and demanded I supply proof.
You didn't provide any reason to think it's small potatoes you simply claimed it was and will not provide proof no matter how many times I ask.

When I pointed out that you supplied no proof for your ever changing nonsensical views on promiscuity, the best you could come up with was a childish:

Nyah, nyah - I asked you first. That's not surprising.​
That is because I did ask first and that is how debate works. You just won't meet your burden will you?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The Flood story and the Creation story are interconnected thematically and all of these motifs show a process of gradual development, evolution even, that the authors wove together carefully to make one epic narrative...

A narrative about a god that is either incompetent or sadistic or both.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Yes, once someone calls a specific claim into question I follow up with a clarification.

Your specific claim...
Promiscuity is the root cause of all manner of evil.​
Your first Clarification
It is not meant to imply that all evil is caused by promiscuity.​
Your second Clarification
I meant it produces quite the catalogue concerning the types of evil it results in.



When I pointed out that you supplied no proof for your ever changing nonsensical views on promiscuity, the best you could come up with was a childish:

Nyah, nyah - I asked you first. That's not surprising.

Let me know when you are ready to defend your assertion:
Promiscuity is the root cause of all manner of evil.
If you won't or can't, just don't respond and I'll consider the matter closed.
If you do respond without defending your ridiculous assertion, I'll also consider the matter closed.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The Flood story and the Creation story are interconnected thematically and all of these motifs show a process of gradual development, evolution even, that the authors wove together carefully to make one epic narrative...a narrative about the gradual development of a people's relationship with their God.

A narrative about a god that is either incompetent or sadistic or both.

And so is our experience of Nature...

Are you saying nature is incompetent or sadistic?
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Are you saying nature is incompetent or sadistic?

Nature is incompetent to fairly secure our needs or to protect us from great harm even a crues it is our Mother. Apparently Nature would have us struggle to remain alive.

If you take the God of Genesis our of the picture and substitute an unpersonified Nature according to our best science you will find that the actions of Nature can easily be seen to be as if it were a cruel, incompetent creator.

Now add back the element of personification, call it God...you see now the possibility that the authors of Genesis were taking the facts of human experience and putting God in the role of the cause of that experience. Then they had Him promise with a rainbow not to do it again. It would appear that God had changed his attitude toward humanity for some reason.

This is the Biblical story. Perhaps those who believe in the Word should be reminded that the Bible does not portray God as only good from our human perspective but also a God who built a reality not entirely friendly to our survival.
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
Nature is incompetent to fairly secure our needs or to protect us from great harm even a crues it is our Mother. Apparently Nature would have us struggle to remain alive.
That's like saying rocks don't care about the well being of humans. While it's true, it is meaningless.

Why would you presume that Nature is a thinking entity?


If you take the God of Genesis our of the picture and substitute an unpersonified Nature according to our best science you will find that the actions of Nature can easily be seen to be as if it were a cruel, incompetent creator.

Uh, no. Only someone who would attribute sentience to nature would believe that.


Now add back the element of personification, call it God...you see now the possibility that the authors of Genesis were taking the facts of human experience and putting God in the role of the cause of that experience. Then they had Him promise with a rainbow not to do it again. It would appear that God had changed his attitude toward humanity for some reason.
If you are trying to imply that the creators of Creation Stories were conflicted, I would agree.

This is the Biblical story. Perhaps those who believe in the Word should be reminded that the Bible does not portray God as only good from our human perspective but also a God who built a reality not entirely friendly to our survival.
From what I have read, from "those who believe in the Word", God intentionally messed things up so that His minions would await the coming and second coming of Him, to then be taken into a place where He didn't mess things up.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
That's like saying rocks don't care about the well being of humans. While it's true, it is meaningless.

Why would you presume that Nature is a thinking entity?




Uh, no. Only someone who would attribute sentience to nature would believe that.



If you are trying to imply that the creators of Creation Stories were conflicted, I would agree.


From what I have read, from "those who believe in the Word", God intentionally messed things up so that His minions would await the coming and second coming of Him, to then be taken into a place where He didn't mess things up.

Where do you draw the line between human nature and a Nature capable of creating self-aware beings? Are we not also Nature?

You may soon realize that I don't represent the common (and what I might call childish) view of the Bible as a story of a Good God trying to discipline his Bad Children into being good. But I do represent what I think the Bible should be understood to be teaching...hence I identify in all sincerity as a Christian. I don't think the author's of the Bible primarily wanted to write such a Bible and I don't think that God's Word is such.

What they did write was an open and honest look at what it really is like to live in (God's creation) reality.

I would argue that personification is not just an essential psychological tool for relating to people but through our social cognitive capabilities we can creatively negotiate the less personal aspects of our reality especially when those aspects severely challenge our sense of well-being or even our perception for the chances of survival much less thriving.

Until the science of psychology is ready to take over (which it is not), we will need stories/literature to guide us through life's personal difficulties.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Your specific claim...
Promiscuity is the root cause of all manner of evil.​
Your first Clarification
It is not meant to imply that all evil is caused by promiscuity.​
Your second Clarification
I meant it produces quite the catalogue concerning the types of evil it results in.​
I am aware of what I typed. You keep obsessing about the terms "all manner of evil" so I keep trying to clarify it using different descriptions. I hope we can move past this at this point. I can't ring any more clarifications out of these terms. It causes a lot of suffering in quite a few different categories. Lets move on now.





Let me know when you are ready to defend your assertion:
Promiscuity is the root cause of all manner of evil.
If you won't or can't, just don't respond and I'll consider the matter closed.
If you do respond without defending your ridiculous assertion, I'll also consider the matter closed.
I have been ready to move on for quite some time. You seem stuck on the semantics but I hope we are passed that point. I have already begin doing what you asked by listing several categories of suffering that results from promiscuity. Do you remember what they were?

1. Adultery
2. Divorce
3. Increased spread rate of STDs
4. Higher abortion rates
5. Destruction of the traditional family unit
6. Sexual violence
7. Rape
8. Unplanned pregnancy
9. Etc......
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
How many evils are caused by a failure to differentiate lust (the source of all promiscuity) with love (the basis for marriage)? When two people who have gotten past the lust and now don't know if they love each other and can work to live together in a successful marriage and relationship?
  1. Extra-martial affairs
  2. Emotional abuse
  3. Emotional neglect
  4. Child abuse
  5. Child neglect
  6. Divorce
  7. All of the things that promiscuity causes
  8. ....
Ignoring and not properly managing one's God given instinctual needs is the root of all immoral action.
 
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