Why are pronouns important?

[K8_reid]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

I don't know how appropriate it is to post here, but i would love a variety of opinions!

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.


1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)


2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?


4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?


5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?


6. Do you have any additional feed back?


You obviously don't have to answer all these questions but anything helps.

Thank you so much for helping me, i really really appreciate it!

- Kate

 

[ChristineM]

Hi Kate

There are a wide range of opinions on RF, most will show up given time. I dont know when your project is due but i suggest you leave this thread as long as possible before compiling your data

Re your questions

I am 48

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Yes, sex usually refers to the biological difference between male and female while gender refers to a persons view of themselves or others.

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?
If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!

Yes
Gender pronouns are a way of acknowledging the gender of a person.

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

They can help explanation in the third person when one or other in the discussion does not know the 3 persons name.

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

I dont think so, its already in language.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

Androgynous.

6. Do you have any additional feed back?

Not sure where you are going with this so no extra comments

 

[Windwalker]

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.

Late 50s

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Yes, there is a difference. Masculinity and femininity are temperaments and traits. Your sex is your biological reproductive organ. All humans have both masculine and feminine traits. Some biological males have more masculine qualities, some more feminine, some right in the middle, and everywhere in between on a spectrum. It's never only one or the other, in anyone. Your sex organ has little to do with this.

Western culture tries to force-fit this reality into roles, causing both males and females to be at odds with their own realities to feel pressure to deny the feminine or the masculine aspects of themselves. This is not the case in other cultures where the lines are blurred and people are allowed to be their unique selves, not someone else's idea of what they should be. Someone's genitals does not determine their identification as a human being.

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

Why there are important is because if someone doesn't self-identify with a stereotype, they shouldn't have to have it forced upon them. Think of it in terms of someone calling you a "jock", when you have no interest in sports, but rather you are a musician and are interested in band and the chess club. To insist on calling someone a "girl", when they identify as a man, needless to say would be uncomfortable and unwelcome by them. That's not about them, that's about someone else's ideas about them being forced upon them against their will.

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

If someone asks you not to call them something, then yes. You should respect that. It's common courtesy.

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

Of course not. Speech laws don't exist in most modern countries. People are free to be a pig to people if they wish, but they shouldn't expect to be respected by anyone aside from other pigs like themselves, whatever that is worth.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

I think we should expand gender identifications to be more fluid and dynamic, then black or white non-realities. I think they are fine, so long as they don't exclude anyone. Calling a job for instance, "mailman", ignored women in that role. "Postal carrier" is gender neutral, and in that instance is more appropriate. But there are times one's gender is appropriate to speak of. It all boils down to common courtesy and basic human respect.

6. Do you have any additional feed back?

Yes. Study other cultures, such as Native American cultures where they have many more gender identifications than just two. Our culture is forcefit of Victorian England culture, full of anal retentive repressions and really bad ideas that don't fit the natural world where diversity is the name of the game.

 

[shunyadragon]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

73

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Yes, but they are intimately related. Gender most often indicates both sex and social role. Where sex specifically deals with xx and xy genetics,

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

Gender pronouns are important for communication​

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

Have to?!?! Gender pronouns are the way language communicates. There can be more gender pronouns that reflect changes in social and cultural concepts of sex and gender

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

Gender designation used in describing laws and in courts is a current controversy in the legislature and courts. I believe legal gender terms should be adapted to fit the evolving social changes in gender designations.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

Gender designation evolve and change over time in the west and exist in all cultures, and just as a matter of fact a culture where gender pronouns do not exist is just unreasonable and very very unlikely, unless all humanity became biotically neutral.

Pronouns are a cultural expression of language and evolve with the culture, and neither necessary nor unnecessary. They are useful and convenient designations of gender in languages and vary from culture to culture. I believe it is apparent that pronouns in the Western culture are evolving from the obvious binary male female designations in the past to a possibility of multiple possible gender designations.

 

[Liu]

I'm 27.

1. Sex is whether you are XX or XY or something else and which genitals you had when you were born.
Gender is the social expectations and stereotypes associated with a given sex. Gender identity on the other hand can either refer to either which gender one identifies with or which sexual physical characteristics one feels comfortable having.

English is not my native language, but that's the difference I learnt in university and on some websites.

2. Yes, I know what they are.
They are important from a linguistic point of view in order to make it easier to understand who you are referring to - but there are also languages whose pronouns don't distinguish between gender. E.g. ta in Chinese means he or she or it.
From a social point of view they are important because gender identity is a fundamental part of human identity. Using pronouns in reference to someone which that person doesn't feel comfortable with can be very hurtful to them.

3. I don't see a reason why one shouldn't use the pronouns requested. People of course should be allowed to make mistakes, especially when not used to that.

4. I'm very much against law-enforcement. That would be censoring speech.
It also would make people who have a problem with transpeople even more opposed towards them.

5. Less prejudiced and more tolerant, hopefully.

6. As a transperson I appreciate you chose this topic
Also, do you mean "gender-neutral pronouns" instead of "gender pronouns"? Because at first I thought you were meaning those.

 

[Twilight Hue]

1)
It depends. There are obviously mental and physical aspects involving gender and sex.
Mentally there could arguably be a difference in terms of gender, however genetically, it's never going to be hidden in terms of sex.

2) it's a simply addressing a person as a her or him for the most part. For me I use pronouns based on natural gender , but at times would not entirely object to using the legal pronouns if it meant that much to a person with some exceptions. In such cases, I would just stick to using that person's name and avoid pronouns all together.

3) I don't see a real huge problem using a requested pronoun, but like the aforementioned, I would most likely stick with using the person's name. I would not expect, or even want everybody to have to follow a universal rule for pronouns although I admit it would be rather disrespectful under certain circumstances.

4) Definitely absolutely not. It isn't because of the pronouns, it more has to do with the basic foundations in regards to freedom of speech.

Words alone never have, and will never will hurt people unless that person actually wants them to hurt.

5) Like racism, if people don't keep talking about it , and keep pointing out their differences, things over time tend to blend in and end up just talking to someone named 'Joe' or 'Mary'.

6) No. Other than good luck.

 

[Polymath257]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

I don't know how appropriate it is to post here, but i would love a variety of opinions!

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.

56

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Yes. The current definitions have sex being the biological aspect related to reproduction and gender being the social aspects concerning roles in society.

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

Well, the words 'he' and 'she' are gender pronouns. Some advocate the adoption of *gender neutral* pronouns, like 'sie' or 'zie'.

The importance tends to be that they identify roles in society. Now, in other languages, *all* nouns have gender, so that produces some other aspects to the discussion.​

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

Well, it might be impolite to use a pronoun other than the one suggested. People should be polite as a general rule.

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

Definitely not. That is a misuse of state power.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

I think it is impossible to completely eliminate it. For example, biology dictates that women are the ones that get pregnant. That will affect, at least to some extent, the social roles related to reproduction.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

I don't know how appropriate it is to post here, but i would love a variety of opinions!

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.

I’m 52.

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Gender is a subjective societal construct of perceived sexual orientation. Sex is an objective biological measure of male, female, neither, or both.

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

​

Yes.

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

I think they’re useful in the fact that they’re practical when referring to another than using someone’s name or saying “that person” or “that dog” and the like.

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

No. I think it’s a silly notion to require the use of a pronoun in the place of a noun or proper noun.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

There would likely be less judgment of one’s self and others and less stereotyping.

6. Do you have any additional feed back?

Just that if you would like some elaboration on anything I said, feel free to ask.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well, the words 'he' and 'she' are gender pronouns. Some advocate the adoption of *gender neutral* pronouns, like 'sie' or 'zie'.

It is my understanding that ‘they’ and ‘them’ are also acceptable gender neutral singular pronouns.

 

[K8_reid]

Late 50s


Yes, there is a difference. Masculinity and femininity are temperaments and traits. Your sex is your biological reproductive organ. All humans have both masculine and feminine traits. Some biological males have more masculine qualities, some more feminine, some right in the middle, and everywhere in between on a spectrum. It's never only one or the other, in anyone. Your sex organ has little to do with this.

Western culture tries to force-fit this reality into roles, causing both males and females to be at odds with their own realities to feel pressure to deny the feminine or the masculine aspects of themselves. This is not the case in other cultures where the lines are blurred and people are allowed to be their unique selves, not someone else's idea of what they should be. Someone's genitals does not determine their identification as a human being.


Why there are important is because if someone doesn't self-identify with a stereotype, they shouldn't have to have it forced upon them. Think of it in terms of someone calling you a "jock", when you have no interest in sports, but rather you are a musician and are interested in band and the chess club. To insist on calling someone a "girl", when they identify as a man, needless to say would be uncomfortable and unwelcome by them. That's not about them, that's about someone else's ideas about them being forced upon them against their will.


If someone asks you not to call them something, then yes. You should respect that. It's common courtesy.


Of course not. Speech laws don't exist in most modern countries. People are free to be a pig to people if they wish, but they shouldn't expect to be respected by anyone aside from other pigs like themselves, whatever that is worth.


I think we should expand gender identifications to be more fluid and dynamic, then black or white non-realities. I think they are fine, so long as they don't exclude anyone. Calling a job for instance, "mailman", ignored women in that role. "Postal carrier" is gender neutral, and in that instance is more appropriate. But there are times one's gender is appropriate to speak of. It all boils down to common courtesy and basic human respect.


Yes. Study other cultures, such as Native American cultures where they have many more gender identifications than just two. Our culture is forcefit of Victorian England culture, full of anal retentive repressions and really bad ideas that don't fit the natural world where diversity is the name of the game.

Thank you for your response! I'm currently looking into other cultures and its so interesting. While western society has been slow to accept other genders (at least this is what i have found) other cultures have been using inclusive language for years.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

I don't know how appropriate it is to post here, but i would love a variety of opinions!

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.

Hi Kate. I am 53.

1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)

Growing up, I learned those two words as synonyms. Two different words with roughly equivalent meanings. I still use them interchangeably. However, today, sex often refers to the biological sex or the state of possessing a specific set of reproductive and secondary sexual characters that identify one as either male or female. Gender seems to be moving to use as a way to describe how a person self-identifies their sex based on a less easily observable mental state. Not to say that there are no physical differences that can be observed between the brains of people of different sexes or within people of a single sex.

2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

Yes. I know what they are. I do consider them to have importance, but I recognize the changing context of the application. I use them where appropriate and with respect.​

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?

I do not think people should be made to use them. I think that they should out of courtesy and respect.

4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?

I do not think there should be laws enforcing the use of gender pronouns. I think doing so impinges on our freedom and natural rights. It takes more power out of the individuals hands. Whether we like or dislike someone's choice to use gender pronouns or not, that individual should be the one making the choice. Making it a law removes the ability of a someone acting wrong from being able to choose to be better.

5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?

That is an interesting and difficult question. I am not sure I have an answer. There is a science fiction book by Ursula K. LeGuin called the "Left Hand of Darkness" that dealt with this question in one form. I read this a long time ago.

Since we need to reproduce, it would either be from some form of asexual reproduction or another mechanism, perhaps with shifting roles as was the condition in the book by LeGuin. Either way, our culture would be much different, but I can only speculate how. No women's work. No he men. No male dominance. Much of the tension that results from seeking mates in our current society would change, though how would depend on the biological condition that would replace reproduction. Our entire views of fidelity and morality would be different.

If a population of people could assume a different gender as part of some cyclical phenomenon that impacts hormones, I could see many of the old roles would still apply. But only under certain circumstances. Change in gender or switching between sexual and asexual reproduction does occur in some species and perhaps they may provide some evidence to speculate further on. In many cases, the baseline gender is female. In honeybees and other Hymenoptera, males are hatched from unfertilized eggs and have a haploid genome, while females are from fertilized eggs and have a diploid genome. This is referred to as haplodiploidy due to the genetic nature of sexual determination for the offspring. In the case of a hive or communal species, this means that the bulk of the population are highly related sisters and have a genetic stake in seeing to welfare of each other.

6. Do you have any additional feed back?

Gender or sex is the result of many factors. Biological sex is controlled by our chromosomes and genes. As well as the presence or absence of hormones. Our gender identity is a cornerstone of who we are and for good or ill, society reinforces those roles on us. I do not know what it is like to question my gender, but I have seen some evidence that leads me to think that those that do, are not mentally ill or without reason. From a biological position, I suspect that there are some people on whom nature did not get the final answer right or who were subjected to a decision made by a doctor or a parent and those people did not get it right. From a moral position, they are people and changes that they decide on are their business. It is not for me to assign judgment on their lawful choice. Personally, I like being the gender I was born into, but I cannot know the life of another.

You obviously don't have to answer all these questions but anything helps.

Thank you so much for helping me, i really really appreciate it!

- Kate

I hope what I wrote helps. Sorry if it was wordy. I was trying to pare down a very complex set of answers to some complex questions.

Sorry. My area is experiencing weather-related power outages. If there is something in here that ends unexpectedly, that is why. The power just now came back on after going off while I was writing this.

 

[K8_reid]

Hi Kate. I am 53.

Growing up, I learned those two words as synonyms. Two different words with roughly equivalent meanings. I still use them interchangeably. However, today, sex often refers to the biological sex or the state of possessing a specific set of reproductive and secondary sexual characters that identify one as either male or female. Gender seems to be moving to use as a way to describe how a person self-identifies their sex based on a less easily observable mental state. Not to say that there are no physical differences that can be observed between the brains of people of different sexes or within people of a single sex.

Yes. I know what they are. I do consider them to have importance, but I recognize the changing context of the application. I use them where appropriate and with respect.​

I do not think people should be made to use them. I think that they should out of courtesy and respect.


I do not think there should be laws enforcing the use of gender pronouns. I think doing so impinges on our freedom and natural rights. It takes more power out of the individuals hands. Whether we like or dislike someone's choice to use gender pronouns or not, that individual should be the one making the choice. Making it a law removes the ability of a someone acting wrong from being able to choose to be better.

That is an interesting and difficult question. I am not sure I have an answer. There is a science fiction book by Ursula K. LeGuin called the "Left Hand of Darkness" that dealt with this question in one form. I read this a long time ago.

Since we need to reproduce, it would either be from some form of asexual reproduction or another mechanism, perhaps with shifting roles as was the condition in the book by LeGuin. Either way, our culture would be much different, but I can only speculate how. No women's work. No he men. No male dominance. Much of the tension that results from seeking mates in our current society would change, though how would depend on the biological condition that would replace reproduction. Our entire views of fidelity and morality would be different.

If a population of people could assume a different gender as part of some cyclical phenomenon that impacts hormones, I could see many of the old roles would still apply. But only under certain circumstances. Change in gender or switching between sexual and asexual reproduction does occur in some species and perhaps they may provide some evidence to speculate further on. In many cases, the baseline gender is female. In honeybees and other Hymenoptera, males are hatched from unfertilized eggs and have a haploid genome, while females are from fertilized eggs and have a diploid genome. This is referred to as haplodiploidy due to the genetic nature of sexual determination for the offspring. In the case of a hive or communal species, this means that the bulk of the population are highly related sisters and have a genetic stake in seeing to welfare of each other.


Gender or sex is the result of many factors. Biological sex is controlled by our chromosomes and genes. As well as the presence or absence of hormones. Our gender identity is a cornerstone of who we are and for good or ill, society reinforces those roles on us. I do not know what it is like to question my gender, but I have seen some evidence that leads me to think that those that do, are not mentally ill or without reason. From a biological position, I suspect that there are some people on whom nature did not get the final answer right or who were subjected to a decision made by a doctor or a parent and those people did not get it right. From a moral position, they are people and changes that they decide on are their business. It is not for me to assign judgment on their lawful choice. Personally, I like being the gender I was born into, but I cannot know the life of another.


You obviously don't have to answer all these questions but anything helps.

Thank you so much for helping me, i really really appreciate it!

- Kate

I hope what I wrote helps. Sorry if it was wordy. I was trying to pare down a very complex set of answers to some complex questions.

Sorry. My area is experiencing weather-related power outages. If there is something in here that ends unexpectedly, that is why. The power just now came back on after going off while I was writing this.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for your response and taking the time to answer it in such depth and details!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hope what I wrote helps. Sorry if it was wordy. I was trying to pare down a very complex set of answers to some complex questions.

Sorry. My area is experiencing weather-related power outages. If there is something in here that ends unexpectedly, that is why. The power just now came back on after going off while I was writing this.

Thank you so much for your response and taking the time to answer it in such depth and details!

You are welcome. I hope it will be helpful.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi everyone,

I have a school research project and i've chosen the topic to centre around the LGBT+ community. I'm finding it difficult to get responses and it would mean so much if you all could help me out by answering some of these questions.

I don't know how appropriate it is to post here, but i would love a variety of opinions!

The only personal information i need is your age because i'm comparing generations and their differing views.


1. Is there a difference between gender and sex? (please explain your reasoning for this answer)


2. Do you know what gender pronouns are (and if so, why are they important)?

If you don't know what they it is fine to say so (as that is the point of my research and would actually really help me)!​

3. Should everyone have to use gender pronouns if asked (and to what extent)?


4. Should the use of gender pronouns be enforced by law? Why/why not?


5. What do you think society would be like if gender didn't exist?


6. Do you have any additional feed back?


You obviously don't have to answer all these questions but anything helps.

Thank you so much for helping me, i really really appreciate it!

- Kate

Why are you asking that here? Better to go to an LGBT forum and ask.

 

[Liu]

Why are you asking that here? Better to go to an LGBT forum and ask.

I guess they want an overview on the general population, a demographic survey.
And even here they won't get it as us transpeople plus people that have a strong opinion on this topic are more likely to reply.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why are you asking that here? Better to go to an LGBT forum and ask.

Not if one wants opinions from outside the LGBT community as well…

…but i would love a variety of opinions!

Or, @Saint Frankenstein, do you feel that LGBT should be the only opinions that matter on this topic?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not if one wants opinions from outside the LGBT community as well…


Or, @Saint Frankenstein, do you feel that LGBT should be the only opinions that matter on this topic?

I assumed the questions were for LGBT people since they said their research topic is the LGBT community.

 

[K8_reid]

I assumed the questions were for LGBT people since they said their research topic is the LGBT community.

I wanted opinions outside of the LGBT+ community. I thought posting it on here would be one of the best opinions as there is a large active community and there would be differing views.