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"Why Are Atheists Generally Smarter Than Religious People?"

Salty Booger

Royal Crown Cola (RC)
When anyone can provide a measure that defines "spirituality,"
That's the point, you can't measure Spirituality. That's why an Atheist is in the dark regarding Spirituality.

Yes, I've been told that before. And yet, I'm always amazed on how many things that -- when push comes to shove -- we all can actually agree on. For example, "is that a wall I see before me?" Well, we may or may not agree, but I promise, neither of us will walk through it unless it also happens to have a door.
Often we erect our own walls. I can easily understand an Atheist's point of view, yet an Atheist seems to struggle with that of Spirituality.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Nope. You might have lost the context, I answered to a simplified statement with another simplified statement - and in the affirmative.
Atheists, on average, are just half as much "smarter" than believers than people of Massachusetts, on average, are smarter than people in Florida.
That doesn't make Massachusettsians "bright" or Floridians "dumb".

I get that we have a difference of opinion on this. That's fine. But I don't believe I missed any context.
To clarify my thoughts, or what I was responding to;

You said (to another posted, not me) that 'Being smart makes one atheist, not the other way around.'
I get that you were correcting the logic train of the other poster, but I was commenting on the sentiment expressed. Certainly not commenting on you in any general sense, etc.

So, my point was that 'being smart makes one atheist' is pretty odious as a sentiment. And it reminds me of the term 'Brights'. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the term 'Brights'. It was not intended to denigrate non-brights as being dim, for example. Instead, it was originally a non-offensive way of describing the godless, since that terms (ie. 'godless') is generally seen as a prejorative. It evolved to become a term aimed at describing a certain group of secularists, who can actually be theists, so long as they hold to certain principles around secularism, education,

But whatever they were hoping to achieve, it is cringe-worthy, to me. A group as disparate as atheists shouldn't be claiming much in the way of group cohesion. If atheists are 'smarter' than theists, then bully for them/us. It means nothing in terms of religion, or even whether religion is 'good' or not. Unless you equate intelligence and worth, or intelligence and morality. Neither of those things seems remotely true to me. But, whatever. They certainly don't need my approval, I just don't like it. And this meta-study raises way more questions than answers, which is fine. But the OP, and more particularly the title of the thread aren't really designed to elicit in-depth discussion on this topic by all members here, I would suggest.

Incidentally, I'd be more interested in seeing the differences between intelligence measurements in sub-groups of religion than at a macro-level. 'Theist' is so broad as to be useless.

Put it this way...what do you think IQ testing in America that shows blacks score lower on IQ tests than whites mean? Do you think it means that blacks are not as smart as whites? I personally don't.
Or women, who are now catching and perhaps even overtaking men in IQ testing. What actions should I take based on that?

These things can be useful. They can lead to us discovering trends in education, to some limited degree. They can lead to us discovering bias in IQ testing (for example, women perform better on verbal testing, so adjusting the level of verbal testing can subtly impact results).
But presenting IQ results as if it tells us that atheists are smarter...meh...I find it pretty odious.

And again...to be clear...I'm not aiming that at you. Just my thoughts on this topic. The OP might address the questions I posed to him, and then we can have a discussion that means something, but I currently mistrust the motivations here.
An atheist with a high IQ posing a thread about how atheists are generally smarter based on IQ testing makes me shudder in oh so many ways.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
That's the point, you can't measure Spirituality. That's why an Atheist is in the dark regarding Spirituality.


Often we erect our own walls. I can easily understand an Atheist's point of view, yet an Atheist seems to struggle with that of Spirituality.

You might be able to understand an atheist's point of view...I can certainly understand the point of view of several theists.
But if you think you can understand the point of view of 'atheists' as a whole, you're kidding yourself.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's the point, you can't measure Spirituality. That's why an Atheist is in the dark regarding Spirituality.
Politics...economics...sports...religion...
One side always thinks he other side is in the dark.
If spirituality can't be measured, then that's not knowable.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
That's the point, you can't measure Spirituality. That's why an Atheist is in the dark regarding Spirituality.
Excuse me, but if I can't measure it --- and neither can you --- then I rather think that you may well be just as much in the dark as I am regarding "Spirituality."

However, if you think of "Spirituality" as anything more than a way of thinking (i.e. something incorporeal, something extrinsic to our physical nature), then you don't actually have anything at all other than your own bias (ooops, I mean opinion).
Often we erect our own walls. I can easily understand an Atheist's point of view, yet an Atheist seems to struggle with that of Spirituality.
Okay, then take on the role of educator: in your own words, using your most powerful and cogent arguments, tell me what "Spirituality" actually means.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Politics...economics...sports...religion...
One side always thinks he other side is in the dark.
If spirituality can't be measured, then that's not knowable.

I can't help with politics, economics or religion, but I have all the right answers when it comes to sport. For I am the way.
Just ask me, and I can tell you the right answers. Makes it easier to identify who the wrong-minded folk are. And trust me, there are a lot of them. Especially after I've had a couple of beers.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I can't help with politics, economics or religion, but I have all the right answers when it comes to sport. For I am the way.
Just ask me, and I can tell you the right answers. Makes it easier to identify who the wrong-minded folk are. And trust me, there are a lot of them. Especially after I've had a couple of beers.
Who played first base for the Pittsburgh Penguins in the 1998 World Series?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Who played first base for the Pittsburgh Penguins in the 1998 World Series?

Bahahahaha...

I think it was the same guy that was playing Keeper for the 1997 LA Clippers. He must have been multi-talented.
I know bugger all about ice hockey or baseball, but even I could handle that one.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Certainly.

You understand theists point of view? Then I humbly bow to your ability to understand the motivations of 5 billion people of diverse cultural, religious and gender backgrounds.
I'm an Australian atheist, and have enough trouble understanding the motivations of my wife, who is also an Australian atheist.
 

Salty Booger

Royal Crown Cola (RC)
You understand theists point of view? Then I humbly bow to your ability to understand the motivations of 5 billion people of diverse cultural, religious and gender backgrounds.
I'm an Australian atheist, and have enough trouble understanding the motivations of my wife, who is also an Australian atheist.
I see all religions pointing in the same direction, diverse as they might be.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
You just replaced the word religion with superstition. My opinion is that we are Spiritual beings. Religion is, in my opinion, the formalizing of Spirituality.
I share the ignorance of some other posters as I don't know what spirituality means but my guess is that it is equal to or derived from animism.
So we have a progression from superstition/agenticity over animism/spirituality to religion. Each step based less in instinct and more in intellect.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I'm a theist. I'd probably score above average on an IQ test. But I don't consider myself smart. An example of my not being that smart was I was once cornered in a political debate, and my defending myself in this case actually made things look worse to me. So I just left that thread since my ability to help people understand the world or my positions in it, wasn't happening.

Now I have said before I've scored very high on tests in the past. But that was at a different time, some roughly 14 or more years ago. A lot has happened since then. Life and personal struggles. And I even changed my gender identity.

If I could tell my younger, more booksmart self anything, it would be, "Don't let your brains get in the way of wisdom."

I'm not telling anyone else here that, though. Just what I would tell my younger self.
 
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