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Who/what is Satan

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by jewscout, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    So many opinions on this...
    Who or what is Satan? What is he trying to do? What is his purpose? etc.
     
  2. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    JS, as far as Lavey, I read his stuff in college and he seem to say it was man inner spirt or natural desires. That one had the desire to be selfish, sexual, free from religion's narrow confinements, ect ect and that indulgence was a healthier lifestyle than absinence. Satan was a metaphore in his writings for personal freedom and premission for a gluttonous lifestyle free from absinence.
     
  3. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    EXCERPT FROM ENHANCEDSPIRIT'S WEBSITE:

    Definitions:
    Satan: Superhuman adversary, one who withstands.
    Devil: prone to slander, accusing falsely a calumniator, metaphor applied to a man who opposes the cause of God.
    Lucifer: shining one, morning star.

    Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati.I asked what Hebrew name was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah?

    The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

    I had been taught that Satan was a beautiful, holy angel which stood before God, and he was supposedly the most beautiful angel that ever was. I was taught that all went well in heaven until one day he began to believe that he was more beautiful and/or better that God. He became exalted! Then we are told that God went into battle with him and threw old Satan right out of heaven. By their teaching they seemed to imply that God was having problems ruling his kingdom because of pride and rebellion. I just can't believe that God has ever had a hard time ruling heaven. Isaiah 45:7 reads, "I form the light, and I create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." And Isaiah 54:16," Behold I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; I have created the waster to destroy." Satan is evil and God was the one who created him.

    "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked."(Jer. 17:9) Mankind does not need help from any other source to be evil. Most people keep their evil actions well in check, but some thrive on evil. Such are the terrorists who can take thousands of innocent lives without remorse. These evil men were not forced by any supernatural power to do what they did. They did what they did because they wanted to do it. And they are god's children. They were born perfect and innocent, and became evil of their own free will. Evil is not a part of the original creation but a result of the abuse of the gift of free will. There are evil men in the world and there will always be evil men in the world. And they are used by God to serve his purpose.
     
  4. Era

    Era Member

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    This realy is a taff question . As you know there are many satanists , some traditionals , some moderns and some rebels ( they don`t want to be included in any of the other two). At it`s origins ,officialy , Satan was the oposite one , everything that was out of rules was/is satanic . Now some think he is the same with God , some think he was created by God ( if you refer to Lucifer , who some olso call Satan), some believe that Satan came just in the same time with God and some , in this days think that Satan is what we want him to be , a representation of a certain inner energy . So what is Satan we can not know for sure since there are many interpretations. The second question is related to the first one , so in every category of satanism , you`ll find a reason for Satan`s existence . I personaly don`t believe in Satan as a deity , so I consider that the only purpose that Satan might have is to bring the freedom of the mind , or more , to bring man been back to his nature . May be other satanists have some other opinions ...
     
  5. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    But HaShem gave us that evil inclination when we were created, our Yetzer Ra
    it is our selfish inclination, such as hunger and lust
     
  6. Dayv

    Dayv Member

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    Wow, been awhile since I've been on...Anyway, I was raised Catholic, and my mother gets rather angry at me when I say I don't believe Satan is real. I think the reason christians at least have a devil is because they don't want to put full blame for their actions on themselves. Sure, they chose to do wrong, but Satan seduced them and put the ideas into their head. I think lucifer or satan or mephistopheles or whatever you might call him is entirely an excuse, taken in the christian sense as I have been told. Really, I think humanity brought evil into this world once they stepped past doing things for more than survival alone and were able to make choices for other reasons beyond living and reproducing.
     
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  7. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Satan is a concept made as a skape goat. There is no supernatural being that makes people do bad things, the people themselves make themselves do bad things. Don't pass off blame for the evil in the world.
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ referred to him as being "the ruler of the world," the one whom mankind in general obeys by heeding his urgings to ignore God’s requirements. (John 14:30; Eph. 2:2) The Bible also calls him "the god of this system of things," who is honored by the religious practices of people who adhere to this system of things.—2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Cor. 10:20.




    When endeavoring to tempt Jesus Christ, the Devil "brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; and the Devil said to him: ‘I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.’" (Luke 4:5-7) Revelation 13:1, 2 reveals that Satan gives ‘power, throne and great authority’ to the global political system of rulership. Daniel 10:13, 20 discloses that Satan has had demonic princes over principal kingdoms of the earth. Ephesians 6:12 refers to these as constituting ‘governments, authorities, world rulers of this darkness, wicked spirit forces in heavenly places.’​

    No wonder that 1 John 5:19 says: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." But his power is only for a limited period of time and is only by the toleration of Jehovah, who is God Almighty

     
  9. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    I don't see where your getting Satan from Daniel 10:13-20...based on the rest of the text it looks like he's talking about persia
     
  10. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Satan is a myth, the purpose and point of which is obscure.
     
  11. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places(ephesians6;12)

    Here we have a fascinating glimpse of the spirit realm. We see that spirit creatures—good and bad—are very much involved in world affairs

     
  12. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    what does any of this have to do w/ the book of Daniel
     
  13. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Jewscout,

    As a JW Mays belief is that Earthly governements and leaders are the tools of Satan.

    It is not Biblical and she is most definately reading from a different Bible than you.
     
  14. iaminterface

    iaminterface Member

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    I don't think there is a satan. To me, it seems like Satan is a metaphor for evil deeds. I agree with the ones who say that satan is used as a scapegoat. People need to put more responsibility on themselves.
     
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    because satan always fights against Jehovah and jesus , and in the book of daniel jesus is the angel called michael .the book of daniel is also a prophetic bookabout world rulership

     
  16. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    how can satan possibly fight G-d? If G-d is an infinite omnipotent being and the only being that can be qualified as a deity, then to say that a being can oppose Him is to say that G-d has limits, thus He is finite. Does your g-d have limits may?

    and still i odn't see Daniel as talking about The satan or the devil or whatever...given the context it's talking about the king of babylon and the Jews coming freedom at the hands of Cyrus king of persia
     
  17. Dayv

    Dayv Member

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    I personally don't understand how all of you bible-goers can use passages from the bible as any kind of proof. I also have often wondered if there are many of you that have a real opinion or if all you can actually do is recite scripture. These books were written by men, and men, in general, are fools, too easily prone to twisting things as they see fit or just outright creating tales. The argument I so often hear to this comment is "but they were divinely inspired," but how do you know that? Because you're preist, pasture, or rabbi says so? Let's hear a real opinion from you people, analyze you're religion, don't just repeat bible verses, i'm so sick of that. Even if your religion is the 'right one', odds are that some of it at least is incorrect, so you can't just take everything verbatum.
     
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  18. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    well Dayv, when your debating about scripture i think it's only appropriate to quote from scripture as well as commentators and experts on these scriptures. It's like asking someone to debate or discuss the Atlantic Slave trade but without using any primary, secondary, or tertiary source materials or the opinion of an historian who is an expert and well versed in said field.

    secondly, wouldn't this sort of rant be more approriate in another thread? This is asking about the views on the concept of Satan or the Devil. If you don't believe in such a figure or have a differing opinion on the traditional concept of the Devil then say so. There no need to unnecessarily bash someone else's faith...
     
  19. The Black Whirlwind

    The Black Whirlwind Well-Known Member

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    satan is just a story told to children by christians to keep them in line, for fear of eternal damnation.
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I agree with everyone who said Satan was created as a scapegoat, and a way to scare people into church. Allthough I'm sure some spirit beings decided to take on the name of Satan to mess with peoples minds over the years. But that doesn't make them the Devil, just another spirit that likes to play pranks on people.
     
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