Their bodies would not have ever died on earth because they had the fruit of the tree of life to eat. As God referenced in Genesis 3:23 - ... lest perhaps he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever... So they would still be in the body when taken to heaven, and we know they would have been taken to heaven because that's where Jesus said the saved are taken; that's our intended eternity.
OK, can I ask you what being "saved" actually means to you? What are we being "saved" from exactly?
And as far as I can see, as long as Adam and his wife ate from the tree of life, they never would have died....that means "living forever" was meant to take place here on earth, not in heaven. Heaven was never offered as a hope for the Jews.
They had no notion of ever going to heaven. In fact, when Jesus chose his apostles and others became disciples, he had a hard time trying to tell them that he was going away. They assumed that as Messiah he would establish his kingdom on earth and that they would rule with him right here. Even as he was ascending to heaven, they thought this. (Acts 1:6) It wasn't until Pentecost that the holy spirit was poured out on them that they finally understood their heavenly inheritance. This is what Paul spoke about. (1Cor 15:42-44) But not all Christians will go to heaven.....only those with "the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1)
There was only one cause of death mentioned to Adam....disobedience in eating from one tree that was placed off limits.
I do not see humans being taken to heaven "bodily", as ever being part of God's original purpose.
The apostle Paul said that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom". Spirit beings inhabit the spirit realm, so those taken to heaven leave their sinful flesh behind and are raised as Jesus was, in a new spirit body. Jesus did not go to heaven bodily. He was raised as a spirit to go back to the realm he left when he came to earth. There he said he "existed in God's form". The Bible tells is that God is a spirit, so why would Jesus return to the spirit realm as anything other than what he was before? (1 Pet 3:18)
Animals do not have souls like humans because they were not created in the image and likeness of God.
Animals are called "souls" in the Bible. The Hebrew word "nephesh" is the same word used for all living creatures. Only humans were given the opportunity to live forever. It didn't mean that they were immortal however, because they needed external things to keep living.....air, food, water and shelter. God provided all that in abundance. The only thing that would cause death was disobedience. If Adam had never sinned, he never would have died and living forever would have been in the flesh for himself and all his children. Being mortal didn't mean he HAD to die....only that he COULD if he disobeyed.
If Adam had never sinned, Jesus Christ would never have needed to come to earth and give his life to redeem his children. Heaven was never supposed to be the destination of humans in the first place. Why would it? If God wanted us in heaven, he would have placed is there in the first place.
Ecclesiastes 9 - First of all, this chapter is not about death. It's about living your life on earth while you're here to live it. After you die, you are gone and forgotten, and have nothing more to do with the activities on earth. Verse 9:5 is often quoted to support the notion that there is no consciousness after physical death, but the translation "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing..." is not quite accurate. In the Latin Vulgate Bible, which predates any Protestant Bible by over 1,000 years it says "For the living know that they shall die, but but the dead know nothing more..." Knowing nothing and knowing nothing more are two different things.
I think the Jews know how to translate their own scriptures.
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10....
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; there is no longer any reward for them, because all memory of them is lost."
"Whatever task comes your way to do, do it with all your strength; because in Sh’ol, where you will go, there is neither working nor planning, neither knowledge nor wisdom." (CJB)
According to Solomon, there is no work or planning or knowledge or even wisdom in Sheol. Verse 6 says that even love has disappeared. How can the cardinal quality of God be lost if the person keeps living? How can planning, ability and knowledge be missing in heaven?
I said the body and soul are one in the earthly life. The soul exits the body at the moment of physical death and continues to live. The mind continues to function with perfect clarity independently of the brain. The senses function without physical organs even better than they did in the body. The soul has no physical mass, but does have a substance and a form which is visible to other spirits.
That is certainly not what Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes. This belief has no foundation in scripture. It appears to be the musings of someone's imagination.
The scripture that illustrates this most clearly is Luke 16:19-31, the Rich Man and Lazarus. They both died and they are both in Sheol in this parable. Lazarus is in the pleasant part of Sheol, the Bosom of Abraham, where the good went, and the rich man is in the place of punishment or possibly in the purifying fire. There is a divide between them, but they can see and recognize each other. The rich man feels pain and thirst even though he has no physical sensory organs. In verse 24, He references body parts which no longer exist, but are still represented in the soul: ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire."
If you read what you just wrote, you may just see how silly it sounds.
First of all this is a parable, not a literal story. The rich man was not said to be wicked, nor the beggar to be righteous.
The rich man enjoyed the "bosom position" which in Jewish terms meant a position of favor with God, like their forefather Abraham. The guest at a meal who was favored, enjoyed that position at the dining table. The apostle John reclined in this position at the Lord's supper.
The rich man pictured the Pharisees as a group. These enjoyed the bosom position because of being Abraham's sons, but they did not take care of the beggars. These in turn became the "lost sheep" that Jesus was sent to save.
These were the poor downtrodden Jews who were counted as unworthy of the attention of the Pharisees whom Jesus castigated for being haughty and only wanting favor from men.
Their deaths signified a change in their status. The Pharisees rejected Jesus and lost their favored position, but the lowly 'beggars' listened to Jesus' teachings and responded favourably to them, thereby being given a position of favor by becoming the kingdom of priests and a holy nation as the Bible promised....the very position that the Pharisees thought was theirs.
The parable could not be literal because of what you stated above. Do you see Heaven and hell as being within talking distance to one another? And can a drop of water on someone's finger possibly cool the tongue of someone in a fire?
God would never torture anyone in eternal flames. It is contrary to his perfect justice.
Jeremiah 7:30-31...
"Because the children of Juda have done evil in my eyes, saith the Lord. They have set their abominations in the house in which my name is called upon, to pollute it; And they have built the high places of Topeth, which is in the valley of the son of Ennom, to burn their sons, and their daughters in the fire: which I commanded not, nor thought on in my heart." (Douay-Rheims)
If God felt that this practice was evil when his people turned to burning their children in a fire, then why would he do that to his own children? That was something he said was not even a "thought on his heart".
There has been a lot of damage done to the reputation of the Creator because of this God-dishonouring belief.
There is no "heaven or hell" scenario in the Bible......it was only ever "life or death". (Deut 30:19) God's ancient people were told to "choose life" by obeying their God......we are under the same obligation.
The God of the Bible is not a fiend. He is the epitome of love.
