Who taught Christianity to Paul?

[Boyd]

And that is understudied, as well as Hellenism within Judaism. [taking into account Hellenism permiated Jewish society at different percentages]

We know Judaism was wide and varied, and the definition of Judaism just as diverse.

It may be understudied, but the broad frame is quite well known.

Do you think Galilean Zealots would embrace their Hellenistic oppressors?

I do believe the Zealots were a group more focused around Jerusalem, possibly not having even really existed until after the time of Jesus (sometime around the first Jewish revolt). So I'm not sure how to answer that.

Do you think the socioeconomic difference between Nazareth peasant Jews and Antipas cronies in Sepphoris had a negative effect on the peasant class in Galilee?

It definitely would have. But those socioeconomic differences would have also been felt throughout Palestine, and similar differences would have been felt throughout the Roman empire. So I'm not really sure of the point.

Did Jews accept their Hellenistic Jewish oppressors

I don't like the term Hellenistic here. I think it is misleading, as I'm not sure what a Hellenistic Jewish oppressor would be. As everyone could be considered Hellenistic to a point, I don't think it is a good qualifier.

Now, there were Jews who did accept the oppression. I would say the majority actually accepted the oppression as a fact of life.

The text shows that he had a problem with his authority. They are questioning his right to claim to be an apostle and teach/lead them.

That is misleading. Who are they? Well, they are a very small group in one tiny area. Yes, some questioned him, but the fact that church did not reject him shows that his authority was still quite in tact.

Also, as to his "being respectful to Jesus," - it is known, and discussed, among Biblical scholars, that the new Christian ideas appear to be different then those that the Hebrew and Jesus taught. These texts appear to be challenging him for exactly those reasons.

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What scholars? And what "new Christian ideas" are you talking about?

You cant teach yourself a new movement created by someone else.

Just so you know, Pauls Judaism has always and still is in question.

What do you mean by this? Are you saying whether or not he is a Jew is questioned, or to what extent he was Jewish? I'm not sure on the phrasing. Also, what scholars are you relying on? I know up until the New Perspective movement, Paul was heavily questioned. But that is really starting to be swept aside.

Again, historians dont trust Paul and he has given plenty of reasons for them to be skeptical.

I'm not sure about this. What historians are you talking about?

Jews followed him around in Antioch and Iconium and tried to incite violence against him.

He persecuted Jews

He persecuted a new forming sect. He was not the only one. Jews were known to persecute this forming sect for quite some time.

Paul used Greek philosphy to pervert the OT to meet his own needs, to a more Hellenistic version.

Can you point out some examples?


I have to be on my way now, but this is definitely and interesting discussion. I am quite torn on Paul, as growing up Jewish, he was not talked about much, and the Jewish scholarship on him was always negative. It's changing quite a bit now and that is quite exciting.

 

[Ingledsva]

He didn't state he hunted the apostles though. He said he persecuted the church, which is quite vague. He also states that he had not gone down to Jerusalem. This is important as it is where the apostles (those continuing with the movement) remained.

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They seem to be telling us this.


Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

(HRB) Acts 8:1 And Saul consented and participated in his murder. And in that day a great persecution took place on the assembly which was in Jerusalem; and all were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 8:3 And then Saul persecuted the congregation, for he entered homes and dragged away men and women. And he delivered them to prison.

Acts 9:1 And Saul still intent with threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went onto the Priest,

Act 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join himself to the disciples:but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.


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[outhouse]

Right but the question was "who taught christianity to paul" I don't think anyone had to teach him about it. He took his past experiences and what he experienced by "seeing" Christ and move forward with it.

He never states he witnessed Jesus.

By following the movement while persecuting it, then living it, could one learn it. Th emovement and its theology and mythology existed before paul took it to heart.

I dont think he sat down and took lessons, nor is anyone saying he did.

He didnt pull this information out of a vacuum either

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

He never states he witnessed Jesus.

By following the movement while persecuting it, then living it, could one learn it. Th emovement and its theology and mythology existed before paul took it to heart.

I dont think he sat down and took lessons, nor is anyone saying he did.

He didnt pull this information out of a vacuum either

Lets establish that the words in Act and what Paul has written are "accurate"

Acts say that Paul heard Jesus's Voice, Paul himself mentions that Jesus appeared to him who was untimely born.

In anyway he has had some witness/experience that has made him believe he has seen Jesus.

 

[Ingledsva]

The text shows that he had a problem with his authority. They are questioning his right to claim to be an apostle and teach/lead them.

...

That is misleading. Who are they? Well, they are a very small group in one tiny area. Yes, some questioned him, but the fact that church did not reject him shows that his authority was still quite in tact.
....

FIRST - Stop putting several posts to different people, in the same answer. It is ridiculous finding you have been answered "by accident" while reading your reply to someone else.

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Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

(HRB) Acts 8:1 And Saul consented and participated in his murder. And in that day a great persecution took place on the assembly which was in Jerusalem; and all were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 8:3 And then Saul persecuted the congregation, for he entered homes and dragged away men and women. And he delivered them to prison.

Acts 9:1 And Saul still intent with threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went onto the Priest,

Act 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.


I think He did steal Jesus' teachings, and turn/twist them to his own purposes.


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[outhouse]

Lets establish that the words in Act and what Paul has written are "accurate".

Why would we start invoking supernatural aspects many claim as mythology to determine REAL history ?

Acts say that Paul heard Jesus's Voice, Paul himself mentions that Jesus appeared to him who was untimely born.

Acts states a few different things that are highly sensationalized to draw readers in. He was a very skilled author.

Again, Paul never states he met Jesus ever, in any shape ghost or alive.

In anyway he has had some witness/experience that has made him believe he has seen Jesus

Nope.

Paul never states this.




What we do know about paul is that he desperately wants to be a real apsostle, we know his teachings were completely different from Jesus. And Paul himself doesnt claim thet Jesus sent him forth to teach. Paul states he had a feeling from within that changed him to a follower instead of a persecuter, and that goes directly against what Acts states.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Why would we start invoking supernatural aspects many claim as mythology to determine REAL history ?





Acts states a few different things that are highly sensationalized to draw readers in. He was a very skilled author.

Again, Paul never states he met Jesus ever, in any shape ghost or alive.




Nope.

Paul never states this.




What we do know about paul is that he desperately wants to be a real apsostle, we know his teachings were completely different from Jesus. And Paul himself doesnt claim thet Jesus sent him forth to teach. Paul states he had a feeling from within that changed him to a follower instead of a persecuter, and that goes directly against what Acts states.

You have to have a standard to start to judge. If you do not accept that acts or paul letters to be accurate then there is no reason to have a debate. So lets set the standard that the words are accurate in order to determine why Paul would have believed what he believed because that is the best information that we have. We have no other outside writings about Paul of Tarsus unfortunately.

And Paul does make the statement that he "saw" Christ

and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas (Peter), then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once." After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me (Paul) also, as by one born out of due time." (1 Cor. 15:3-8)

Mind you Paul leaves out that the first person to see Jesus was Mary Magadeline, and in none of the gospels is Peter the first to see Jesus. What's interesting however is that the way that it is written implies that James was not part of the Twelve...and the apostles that he mentions are also named distinct from the 12. This may be an allusion to the other followers of Jesus. Which also may point out that the term Apostle was not necessarily synonymous with those who were also his disciples.

 

[Ingledsva]

You have to have a standard to start to judge. If you do not accept that acts or paul letters to be accurate then there is no reason to have a debate. So lets set the standard that the words are accurate in order to determine why Paul would have believed what he believed because that is the best information that we have. We have no other outside writings about Paul of Tarsus unfortunately.

And Paul does make the statement that he "saw" Christ

and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas (Peter), then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once." After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me (Paul) also, as by one born out of due time." (1 Cor. 15:3-8)

Mind you Paul leaves out that the first person to see Jesus was Mary Magadeline, and in none of the gospels is Peter the first to see Jesus. What's interesting however is that the way that it is written implies that James was not part of the Twelve...and the apostles that he mentions are also named distinct from the 12. This may be an allusion to the other followers of Jesus. Which also may point out that the term Apostle was not necessarily synonymous with those who were also his disciples.

Actually when put back in correct word order, and translated correctly - he doesn't actually see him.


1Co 15:8 And last of all I, as it was, born at the wrong time, did EXPERIENCE/PERCEIVE, also.



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[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Actually when put back in correct word order, and translated correctly - he doesn't actually see him.


1Co 15:8 And last of all I, as it was, born at the wrong time, did EXPERIENCE/PERCEIVE, also.



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Pretty sure I put "see" in quotations but just in case i didn't, there's supposed to be quotations around it.

 

[steeltoes]

Why would we start invoking supernatural aspects many claim as mythology to determine REAL history ?





Acts states a few different things that are highly sensationalized to draw readers in. He was a very skilled author.

Again, Paul never states he met Jesus ever, in any shape ghost or alive.




Nope.

Paul never states this.




What we do know about paul is that he desperately wants to be a real apsostle, we know his teachings were completely different from Jesus. And Paul himself doesnt claim thet Jesus sent him forth to teach. Paul states he had a feeling from within that changed him to a follower instead of a persecuter, and that goes directly against what Acts states.

No one ever states they met Jesus, let alone Paul.

 

[Ingledsva]

Actually when put back in correct word order, and translated correctly - he doesn't actually see him.


1Co 15:8 And last of all I, as it was, born at the wrong time, did EXPERIENCE/PERCEIVE, also.

Pretty sure I put "see" in quotations but just in case i didn't, there's supposed to be quotations around it.

The word is "ofthi," which also means Experience/perceive, etc.

Since it follows the words, "last," and "born at the wrong time," those are the only acceptable translations.

Add to this that we know he was persecuting Christians - AFTER - Jesus' death.

And the fact that acts tells us he had a supernatural experience on the road AFTER Jesus's death, while chasing down those Christians -

And the fact that the texts tell us the Christians did not trust or accept him when he tried to join himself to them -

And it speaks for itself.



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[outhouse]

You have to have a standard to start to judge. If you do not accept that acts or paul letters to be accurate then there is no reason to have a debate. .

Not really.

Some things Paul has stated may be true, where he went, who he taught, who he had problems with and why.

But we dont give any credibility to the supernatural, nor should we.


Paul and Acts contradicts each other in many places.

And Paul does make the statement that he "saw" Christ

I stand corrected.

But so you know, dreams and visions were considered real to these primitive people.

And paul does not go into no detail at all.

As well the 500 is not credible at all.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Not really.

Some things Paul has stated may be true, where he went, who he taught, who he had problems with and why.

But we dont give any credibility to the supernatural, nor should we.


Paul and Acts contradicts each other in many places.



I stand corrected.

But so you know, dreams and visions were considered real to these primitive people.

And paul does not go into no detail at all.

As well the 500 is not credible at all.

Right but I'm not saying that there is supernatural Paul may very well believe that he "saw" Jesus. Whether he did or not, doesn't matter. He believes that he did. As such if we take that in some way shape or form he had an "experience"

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The word is "ofthi," which also means Experience/perceive, etc.

Since it follows the words, "last," and "born at the wrong time," those are the only acceptable translations.

Add to this that we know he was persecuting Christians - AFTER - Jesus' death.

And the fact that acts tells us he had a supernatural experience on the road AFTER Jesus's death, while chasing down those Christians -

And the fact that the texts tell us the Christians did not trust or accept him when he tried to join himself to them -

And it speaks for itself.



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I'm not a translator so I really cant' tell if you are correct or not to be honest

 

[Repox]

I have an unorthodox story about how Paul became a Christian missionary. Many years ago I had a dream about him. He was walking on a dirt road when suddenly he was surrounded by a bright light. A voice said, "Come up to heaven with me." Paul walked away with his hands in the air saying, "First I must evangelize the world!"

Here is my interpretation of the dream. First, it was the Lord God, or Jesus, in the bright light. Not to confuse anyone, I believe God is a duality and Jesus (God) was thought to be the son of God. It is not clear from the dream if Paul thought it was the Lord God or Jesus, the son of God, who spoke to him. I think he thought it was Jesus the son of God, because, at the time, everyone thought that way about Jesus.

Based on the experience, Paul probably thought he had a special mission, which was to evangelize the world. However, the dream was clear, Paul was offered and opportunity to go to heaven with the lord (God). The voice in the light did not say evangelize the world, that was Paul's idea. Then, knowing that Paul, like the gospel authors, thought Jesus was the son of God, he interpret it that way. He should have gone to heaven with God, and then he would have found out that Jesus was God, and not the son of God.

From there, Paul learned from Christian leaders about Jesus, the son of God, thus becoming a dedicated missionary, although with wrong ideas.

From a theological point of view, Christianity is wrong. How can you believe in the son of God when he doesn't exist? That doesn't mean Christianity is all bad, it just doesn't have the right beliefs.

 

[2ndpillar]

As we know he did not met Jesus. So who taught him Christianity?

Dear Shia,
No one taught Paul "Christianity". It was his own invention. It has little to do with the testimony of Yeshua, except that Yeshua said to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees (hypocricy), and ravenous wolfs (Gen 49:27) in sheep's clothing. Yeshua said to eave the tares, those "WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS" in the ground, less you disturb the wheat. Of course Paul was the leader of the tares. The tares were the sons of "the evil one".

If he indeed Paul was a Pharisee, and studied the O.T., then he should be able to pervert them at will. His Roman 10:13 is a prime example, whereas he says to call on the name of the "lord" to be saved, a quote from Joel 2:32. Joel 32 which is about the Tribulation, and the only ones saved are those that endure, because it is going to be so bad, that if it wasn't cut short, "no life would have been saved".(Mt 24:22) Joel 2 & 3 is about the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem and the judgment of the "nations"

 

[gilligan8914]

Paul preached the gospel of Paul. Who in the new testament refers to Paul as an apostle? Which of the real apostles refer to Paul as an apostle? Did Jesus ever mention Paul? How many of the real apostles declared themselves an apostle without authority from Jesus? How many of the real apostles persecuted other believers? Why does Paul contradict Jesus in his writings? Why does Paul declare that his gospel has authority even over angels of God?

 

[roger1440]

As we know he did not met Jesus. So who taught him Christianity?

Christianity as we know it today did not exist during Paul’s life time.

 

[steeltoes]

No one has been known to have met Jesus, which in turn makes early Christianity all the more mysterious.

 

[Ingledsva]

I'm not a translator so I really cant' tell if you are correct or not to be honest

I decided to edit this as LegionOnomaMoi made some good points on some of the Greek, and I thought I should go back and recheck the text, then re-post.






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