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Who is the true church?

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Mister_T said:
Personally, at this point in my spiritual journey, I don't think that any church is a 100% representation (I hope I spelled that right) of God. Abraham and Moses didn't have a church. They didn't need one because they had a personal relationship with God. I think all you really need is that relationship and His word. Not human inerpretations and views. Church is a man made thing, and we all know that man is prone to error.


Hi Mr T,

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wmam

Active Member
may said:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

2 timothy 3
16-17
if its based on an accurate knowledge of Gods word , it would be inline with the will of God
Very good ............. but what if He wants us to use the True names and words from the Hebrew translation?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work.

If the so called True church was to exist then one might think it would use the True Name and the right True words from the language in which it was first spoken of. Even Paul said ...........

Act 26:14 "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me, and saying in the Heḇrew language, ‘Sha’ul, Sha’ul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the prods.’

Act 26:15 "And I said, ‘Who are You, Master?’ And He said, ‘I am יהושע, whom you persecute.
 

may

Well-Known Member
wmam said:
Very good ............. but what if He wants us to use the True names and words from the Hebrew translation?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work.

If the so called True church was to exist then one might think it would use the True Name and the right True words from the language in which it was first spoken of. Even Paul said ...........

Act 26:14 "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me, and saying in the Heḇrew language, ‘Sha’ul, Sha’ul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the prods.’

Act 26:15 "And I said, ‘Who are You, Master?’ And He said, ‘I am יהושע, whom you persecute.
yes ,Elohim means God and the bible tells us who God is at psalm 83;18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah

You alone are the Most High over all the earth psalm 83;18............ this is the God that inspired the bible, yes as his name tells us (He causes to become)

Definition: The personal name of the only true God. His own self-designation. Jehovah is the Creator and, rightfully, the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. "Jehovah" is translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, יהוה, which means "He Causes to Become." These four Hebrew letters are represented in many languages by the letters JHVH or YHWH.but that is for another thread i think





 

wmam

Active Member
may said:
yes ,Elohim means God and the bible tells us who God is at psalm 83;18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah

You alone are the Most High over all the earth psalm 83;18............ this is the God that inspired the bible, yes as his name tells us (He causes to become)

Definition: The personal name of the only true God. His own self-designation. Jehovah is the Creator and, rightfully, the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. "Jehovah" is translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, יהוה, which means "He Causes to Become." These four Hebrew letters are represented in many languages by the letters JHVH or YHWH.but that is for another thread i think





I would think that Elohim came about before the word god which was dreived from the word gad which is paganistic. I would move further to say that it is my understanding that even the elders or overseer's of the JW have went as far as to admit that jehovah was a mistranslation of the YHWH because of the misleading vowel points added. Remember that there are no letter "J" in Hebrew and the letter only came into being in the english around 1670's. The 1611 KJV did not have a letter "J" through out instead had the "I". But we know that the KJV was translated from the Greek and not the Hebrew so more room for mistranslation. Also I have looked into other translations of different Scriptures of Psalms 83:18 only to find that some use the word god, lord and Yahweh in place of the word jehovah. I also look to Psalms 68:4 as it also gives light to the True name.......

Psa 68:4 Sing to Elohim, sing praises to His Name. Raise up a highway for Him Who rides through the deserts, By His Name Yah, And exult before Him.

You may be right on another forum and/or thread to this but it makes it really hard to follow when the questions pop into our minds during the threads in which we are reading at the time. I see it as furthering this thread in search of the True Assembly. Question is about True Assembly but as it seems by most here that none have fulfilled the letter of the Law enough to claim that title as yet.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
There are many good Christian churches, all over the world, that teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is necessary for the progression of man, in order to live in a better world, where Christ will rule and reign. All Christian churches have a role to play in the progression of man, in order to live with Christ, on earth, during the millenium. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers help in this progression, of man, in order to live with Christ during the millenium. This is our next step in our progression. We must learn all we can about Jesus Christ, and what he taught, in order to live with him during the millenium. All Christian churches play an important role in accomplishing this. We all speak and teach of Christ.
 

wmam

Active Member
But see I don't believe that we should use names that either came by, or was even said to be by, paganism when referring to either the Father, Son Holy Spirit or even the Scriptures. To me they take it like a slap in the face when we call them anything other than who they are and use some title or name that was used by others to refer to pagan deity's. Look..... you don't translate names of people you meet from other country's do you? If you went to another country and they translated your name into something they could pronounce easy and started calling you that other than what you were use to be called then you might not know that they were calling you. Now look at that and then have knowledge that you knew that they were referring to you but the name that they decided on to call you had come from some root word that had to do with some pagan deity or something that totally offended you. Understand? It gets to be a real understanding of why we are not to take the Creators Name in vain or bring it to not. We have changed His Name after something perverse and unclean. We have changed the Names of just about everything to ones of perverse and unclean natures. Why? What silly reason would one do such a thing? Why couldn't things be left to what they were? Why couldn't we just call things by their real Names? Why couldn't we call our Creator and His Son by Their True and Sacred Names? Its a sin to cover it up. Its not what is said to be done through out the Scriptures. We are to extol and praise His Name at all times at the top of our voices. We are to shout with joy and praise of His Name. We are to keep the Shabbat Holy forever and it is established by YAH Himself that it be on the seventh day. Who is any mortal man that could change such a decree from our Creator other than one that was demonic? YAH is unchanging and everlasting and what He says is Truth and Law. We better wake up before it's to late.:tsk:

And I quote ..............

"CHRIST"​

The Greeks used both the word Messias (a transliteration) and Christos (a translation) for the Hebrew Mashiach (Anointed). The word Christos was far more acceptable to the pagans who were worshiping Chreston and Chrestos.​
According to The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, the word Christos was easily confused with the common Greek proper name Chrestos, meaning "good." According to a French theological dictionary, it is absolutely beyond doubt that Christus and Chrestus, and Christiani and Chrestiani were used indifferently by the profane and Christian authors of the first two centuries A.D. The word Christianos is a Latinism, being contributed neither by the Jews nor by the Christians themselves. The word was introduced from one of three origins: the Roman police, the Roman populace, or an unspecified pagan origin. Its infrequent use in the New Testament suggests a pagan origin.​
According to Realencyclopaedie, the inscription Chrestos is to be seen on a Mithras relief in the Vatican. According to Christianity and Mythology, Osiris, the sun-deity of Egypt, was reverenced as Chrestos. In the Synagogue of the Marcionites on Mount Hermon, built in the third century A.D., the Messiah's title is spelled Chrestos. According to Tertullian and Lactantius, the common people usually called Christ Chrestos.​
............ Also ..............​
"CHURCH"​

This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the Greek "ekklesia." The Greek word means "a calling out," "a meeting," or "a gathering." Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation.​
The origin of the word "church" is kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. The meaning is a building (the house of Kurios, or Lord).​
Dictionaries give the origin of "church" as the Anglo-Saxon root, circe. Circe was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the sun-deity. The word circe is related to "circus," "circle," "circuit," and "circulate."​
Circe was originally a Greek goddess whose name was written and pronounced as Kirke. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, in Germany as Kirche, and in Netherlands as kerk.​
End of quote.........​
I believe that a True Assembly would need to use the Sacred Names as well as a translation from the Hebrew as part of their standards. I also believe that such a True Assembly would also have to observe the seventh day as the Shabbat and observe the new covered moons as well as all seven of the Feast and High Holy Days. I believe that it would need to teach and follow the Faith along with the Law. :)
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You can determine which churches are true, by examining which churches are false.

1 Nephi 22: 23

"For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity, yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake, they are those who must be brought low in the dust, they are those who must be consumed as stubble, and this is according to the words of the prophet."
 

BM5

Member
Since there is only one God there can only be one set of truths that relate to Him and therefore only one Church that can claim to be His representative on the planet.

The claim of being the true church is made by many , with many of these churches in direct contradiction to each other over what is true. There are just people in all of these churches, so it appears that "divide and conqueor" has worked wonderfully well in this case.

It is my belief that in the time period that we are now in, all organized religion falls short of being the true church of God, mainly because they are all based on Biblical teachings, some of which are true, some of which are half true, and some of which are completely false.
 

may

Well-Known Member
BM5 said:
f

It is my belief that in the time period that we are now in, all organized religion falls short of being the true church of God, mainly because they are all based on Biblical teachings, some of which are true, some of which are half true, and some of which are completely false.
i would agree with this up to a point, it is true that there are many religions out there that are teaching half truths and it is my belief that christendom is the worst offender of this ,because they claim to represent the God of the bible , but at the same time mix their beliefs with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings ,and this would be offensive to the God of the bible. no wonder that the God of the bible tells his true people to( GET OUT OF HER)
"Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."—Rev. 18:4. So why does God want his true followers to get out of her ........ because she is going to go down and never be found again:eek:

That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."—Revelation 18:5-8...... fire symbolizes total destruction.... end of

 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
may said:
i would agree with this up to a point, it is true that there are many religions out there that are teaching half truths and it is my belief that christendom is the worst offender of this ,because they claim to represent the God of the bible , but at the same time mix their beliefs with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings ,and this would be offensive to the God of the bible. no wonder that the God of the bible tells his true people to( GET OUT OF HER)
"Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."—Rev. 18:4. So why does God want his true followers to get out of her ........ because she is going to go down and never be found again:eek:

That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."—Revelation 18:5-8...... fire symbolizes total destruction.... end of

You mean Christians have been distorting the bible and "mix their beliefs with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings"? Which are those believes? My understanding is that Christians based their beliefs 100% on the bible. So you are saying that part of the bible is corrupted? If that is the case, how do you know Rev 18:4 is not corrupted with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings?
 

may

Well-Known Member
greatcalgarian said:
You mean Christians have been distorting the bible and "mix their beliefs with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings"? Which are those believes? My understanding is that Christians based their beliefs 100% on the bible. So you are saying that part of the bible is corrupted? If that is the case, how do you know Rev 18:4 is not corrupted with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings?
true bible teachings do not include babylonish teaching, and revelation 18;3 tells us that all the nations have fallen victim of her ,but hey , those who have gotten out of her are nolonger under her power .infact she has already fallen but she is yet to be destroyed , and it will be God that wants this done .no the bible tells us just what is going to happen to false religion ,and it is not a good judgement for her
And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: "Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again revelation 18;21

 

wmam

Active Member
greatcalgarian said:
You mean Christians have been distorting the bible and "mix their beliefs with pagan beliefs with roots in babylonish teachings"?
They observe the day of the sun as a Sabbath by declaration of a man and not the seventh day as commanded by YAH. They use names and words that are from root paganistic words like god, lord, jesus, christ, church, bible, etc. etc. etc. and they do not use the sacred names. They follow man made festivals that were in and of themselves developed from pagan rituals and festivals like easter, halloween, christmas. They do not follow the feast and festivals that were set forth by the Most High. They do not follow the commands of YAH thus polluting their body's and being with all sorts of uncleanliness.

Why is this so hard for so many not to understand? Look to what Yahshua, and His disciples, did as well as what His disciples did after Yahshua left. If things were meant to be changed as they are today, wouldn't you think Yahshua would have taught the disciples as much? Wake up people.:bonk:
 

may

Well-Known Member
wmam said:
They observe the day of the sun as a Sabbath by declaration of a man and not the seventh day as commanded by YAH. They use names and words that are from root paganistic words like god, lord, jesus, christ, church, bible, etc. etc. etc. and they do not use the sacred names. They follow man made festivals that were in and of themselves developed from pagan rituals and festivals like easter, halloween, christmas. They do not follow the feast and festivals that were set forth by the Most High. They do not follow the commands of YAH thus polluting their body's and being with all sorts of uncleanliness.

Why is this so hard for so many not to understand? Look to what Yahshua, and His disciples, did as well as what His disciples did after Yahshua left. If things were meant to be changed as they are today, wouldn't you think Yahshua would have taught the disciples as much? Wake up people.:bonk:
yes ,and did not Jesus warn them that imposters would arise among themselves
wecan recognize Christmas for what it is, a pagan celebration that falsely parades as the birthday of Jesus,

Christmas, therefore, is nothing more than a carbon copy of the pagan Saturnalia.

This is generally admitted by historical and religious scholars. Says a world history, On the Road to Civilization, page 164: "The feast of Saturn, the Saturnalia, was a winter festival which lasted a week beginning on the twenty-fifth day of December, and was celebrated with dancing, the exchanging of gifts, and the burning of candles. The Saturnalia was later taken over by the Christians as their Christmas, and given a new significance:tsk:



 

verita

Member
Anything that is own by man is called in his name. For example: If your name is John then your property is called in your name. Say you have a car, we say that is the Car of John… the Wife of John, the Son of John, the House of John. It is not right to call the Wife of John as the Wife of Peter because John will get mad. Also you can not call the House of John as the House of Peter. So anything you own, your name is always attached in it.

The same applies to God. Anything that is owned by God is called in his name. Like Son of God, Angels of God, House of God, man of God, ark of God, Kingdom of God etc…

Therefore, if the church belongs to God it must be called the church of God.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of Godwhich is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of Godwhich is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)


God bless you all.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
The same applies to God. Anything that is owned by God is called in his name. Like Son of God, Angels of God, House of God, man of God, ark of God, Kingdom of God etc…

Therefore, if the church belongs to God it must be called the church of God
.

Agreed, but then God himself has many names! As it says in 3 Nephi 27:

5 Have they not read the scriptures, which say ye must take upon you the name of Christ, which is my name? For by this name shall ye be called at the last day;
6 And whoso taketh upon him my name, and endureth to the end, the same shall be saved at the last day.
7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.
8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The one Body of Christ is the true Church. All else is human folly and lack of vision. The Church is "essentially, intentionally and constitutionally One." The Church is the ecclesia -- the people -- gathered into the one Body of Christ. Roman Catholic? Anglican? Lutheran? Pentecostal? Baptist? Doesn't make any difference. Bodies are made up of all kinds of different cells and organs. What matters is that all are identified as parts of the same Body.
 

verita

Member
DeepShadow said:
Agreed, but then God himself has many names! As it says in 3 Nephi 27:
Sorry, but the bible contains only 66 books and there is no Nephi in the bible.
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

God bless you.
 

verita

Member
sojourner said:
The one Body of Christ is the true Church. All else is human folly and lack of vision. The Church is "essentially, intentionally and constitutionally One." The Church is the ecclesia -- the people -- gathered into the one Body of Christ. Roman Catholic? Anglican? Lutheran? Pentecostal? Baptist? Doesn't make any difference. Bodies are made up of all kinds of different cells and organs. What matters is that all are identified as parts of the same Body.
Our Lord Jesus Christ is the head of the body. The body is the church.
Col1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Who is that church according to the bible?
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Co 1:2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours:

In the true church, every commandments written in the bible is strictly followed by everyone.
1Ti 6:14 that you keep the commandment without spot and without blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God bless you
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
verita said:
Sorry, but the bible contains only 66 books and there is no Nephi in the bible.
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

God bless you.

You're right. The Bible contains only 66 books. But God didn't just speak to those in the Bible. Christ said he would speak to the "other sheep." Ezekial also received instruction to record one history for Judah and one for Ephraim. I won't go into it more since this is the topic of this thread.

And may GOD bless you.
 
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