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Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
Pretty clear... Jesus accepts being called God by Thomas...
theMadJW
Member
'Clear' when assuming.
How to explain something when someone
doesn't WANT to know!
Jesus is the son of God.(Not God Almighty.)
It is the Trinity Dogma that sends the mind
down the wrong path.
What did Thomas mean when he said to Jesus,
"my lord and my God"?
Since the account shows that Jesus had,
just BEFORE appearing to Thomas,
appeared to Mary Magdalene, telling her to
send his disciples the message, "I am
ascending to my Father and your Father and
to my God and your God"there is no reason
for believing that Thomas thought Jesus
was God Almighty.{John20:17}
(Except if you believe Church Tradition)
Imagine YOU are Thomas.
Your faith has been DEVASTATED; Your
"Messiah" was brutally killed & shamefully
nailed to a stake/cross. He must have been just
another of the many false prophets, and you
were stupid enough to believe him! Your world
caves in as your faith & dreams vanish! Now this
man is before you claiming to BE Jesus- but
he doesn't LOOK the same (maybe it was dark-
no electricity!).
He tells you to feel his hands, and as you see
the nail wounds- and FEEL them, Euphoric shock
overwhelms you, as you cry out
" My Lord and My God!",overwhelmed to realise
it IS Jesus, and how grateful you are to
God above for resurrecting him!
Since one CANNOT see God (Moses, Christ,
John), Thomas praised them BOTH, in awed
shock at realizing Christ HAD been resurrected-
and Christ would have CORRECTED Thomas,
if he had meant what the Clergy have taught
for centuries.
John himself after recounting Thomas'
encounter with the resurrected Jesus,
says of this and similar accounts: "But these
have been written down that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ the SON OF GOD,
(NOT God Almighty)
and that,because of believing , you may have
life by means of his name." Joh 20:,31.
Jesus is the Son of God, he is also the Alpha and the Omega, and the creator of all things... God.
Jesus once denied being God. "Why do you call me good? There is no one good except God alone". (Mark. 10:18, Luke 18:19)
Therefore Jesus is not God, but man. I can pretty much guarantee that Jesus didn't think of himself as God. I don't think it was ever part of the prophecy that the Messiah would be God Himself.
Therefore Jesus is not God, but man. I can pretty much guarantee that Jesus didn't think of himself as God. I don't think it was ever part of the prophecy that the Messiah would be God Himself.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
I think you're partly right about Jesus not conceiving of himself as God, if by that we mean Jesus thought "Oh yes, I'm the second person of an as-yet-unheard-of trinity with all the divine rights, powers, and privileges of deity." Folks like that get locked up, and rightly so. But Jesus DID think of himself as God in other senses. He thought it was his right to do what only God could do, for example forgive sins and execute judgment. He taught "as one with authority, and not as the scribes." Whatever else that means, it means he thought his own interpretation of scripture was decisive, and he felt no need to justify his interpretation by appeal to other interpreters. These (among other things) point to Jesus' self-understanding as including himself in the divine in a way unique among Jews. I agree that he probably wouldn't have parsed this out in a trinitarian way, but that doesn't mean the trinitarian formulation is untrue.
And given all the other ways in which Jesus was ascribed deity or ascribed it to himself, the citation from Mark. 10:18 and Luke 18:19 is a pretty weak refutation. After all, Jesus may well have said it in order to test his listener. He was waiting for a response such as "Well, I call you good because you are God" as a response. We'll just never know, I suppose, but it seems that the tradition of Jesus' deity is quite early and precedes the compilation of the NT. The best explanation for that is that Jesus did and said things only God should have been doing and saying; that is, the scriptural portrait is more or less accurate.
Thing is, testing people is not in Jesus's character. Not to mention the portrayal of Jesus varies depending on the Synoptic gospels, or the Gospel of John, or the letters of Paul. Each has a different Christ to paint.
Ever read "The Five Gospels"?
theMadJW
Member
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
When you've sen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to do My Own will, since I am God!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Jesus words re-phrased to see the 'Trinity'-
(Jesus baptised Himself in Himself, when floating down like a Dove
as God-the-Ghost)
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
I AM!
When you've seen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to not to do My Own will, but My OWN Will!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Believe in Me, also, in ME!
The witness of two or three doesn't apply to ME;
I Bear Witness to myself, and so does Myself as God-the-Father,
and Myself as God-the-Ghost- but we aren't 3 Persons; we are ONE and the SAME!
I came to make MY OWN Name known!
I have both glorified Myself, and WILL glorify Myself!
I could go on...but WHY?
It is SO obvious even a child can easily understand how goofy the dogma is...
But not churchoids!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
When you've sen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to do My Own will, since I am God!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Jesus words re-phrased to see the 'Trinity'-
(Jesus baptised Himself in Himself, when floating down like a Dove
as God-the-Ghost)
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
I AM!
When you've seen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to not to do My Own will, but My OWN Will!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Believe in Me, also, in ME!
The witness of two or three doesn't apply to ME;
I Bear Witness to myself, and so does Myself as God-the-Father,
and Myself as God-the-Ghost- but we aren't 3 Persons; we are ONE and the SAME!
I came to make MY OWN Name known!
I have both glorified Myself, and WILL glorify Myself!
I could go on...but WHY?
It is SO obvious even a child can easily understand how goofy the dogma is...
But not churchoids!
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Oh boy, onther Trinty/Jesus is/isn't God debate that will go on for 6,000 post and change no ones mind.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Fruitless rhetoric
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Doubtful disputations?Fruitless rhetoric
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
I hope you realize that I was referring to the topic when I said "fruitless rhetoric" and not to your comment.....
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I got it. no one could ever doubt my comments.I hope you realize that I was referring to the topic when I said "fruitless rhetoric" and not to your comment.....
Last edited:
I agree that Jesus was man. He was man, which is why He called himself Son of Man. I personally believe that he was born through natural means. (I mean through intercourse). I don't think that Joseph was the dad though because there must have been some truth there about him wanting a divorce. Just speculation but I think it makes sense. Also, I think we are all Sons and Daughters of God in a way. However, I think that when Jesus recieved the Holy Spirit, God singled him out to help people find their way again. I think that the most important part of life is to love each other and God and that God wants us to express this by giving people like Jesus the wisdom so we don't forget. Because forget we do. And easily.
Examine
the Scriptures
At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul. They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. You should do the same.
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
We invite you to search the Bible, especially the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, to see for yourself if Jesus and his disciples taught a Trinity. As you search, ask yourself:
1. Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity, nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom. Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those waysand if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a "duality." Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.Please do show me anything in the Bible that could support Trinity,thanksKeep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
We invite you to search the Bible, especially the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, to see for yourself if Jesus and his disciples taught a Trinity. As you search, ask yourself:
1. Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
No.
A Godhead, not a Trinity. Three divine beings (two of them subordinate to God the Father) united as "one" in will and purpose.
Yes. It was the same God as you and I have.
theMadJW
Member
Mad: First, there is no Ghost-God.
Second "God" denotes the Supreme Being-
not Supreme Beings.
The Almighty. The Almighty is subordinate
to no one.
You are trying, as we all do, to make sense of the
ridiculous!
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm not "trying" to make sense of anything. I don't believe in the Trinity and my beliefs make perfect sense to me. Furthermore, they are entirely in line with what the Bible teaches.