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who is the founder of christianity Jesus or Paul ?

kai

kai

ragamuffin
brilliant theory midnightblue frubals on your head i always suspected something like this, it started to infect me when i realized his real name wasn't Jesus i started looking deeper and it became obvious that the religion of Jesus was different than Christianity the religion about Jesus. if any one has a different theory i cant wait to hear it
 
Starfish

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
Christ is the founder. He organized a specific church. And the rock that is often interpreted to mean Peter, actually is referring to revelation. Revelation is the rock that his church is built upon. Christ called on Paul (through revelation) to carry on the work of his church.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
rheff78 said:
actually Peter started the Church,

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Matthew 16:18
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How can you say that Peter started the Church when Jesus said, "I will build my church"?
 
Darkness

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
[QUOTE="Katzpur']How can you say that Peter started the Church when Jesus said, "I will build my church"?[/QUOTE]

Jesus is the Church's spiritual leader. Think of Jesus as the abstract (invisible) and Peter as the concrete (visible).
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Darkness said:
Jesus is the Church's spiritual leader. Think of Jesus as the abstract (invisible) and Peter as the concrete (visible).
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Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Jesus Christ established His own Church, as far as I'm concerned. He left Peter in charge, but it wasn't Peter's Church.
 
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S

Somkid

Well-Known Member
To the best of my knowledge Jesus was a Jew and I have seen him referred to as Rabbi in any event it is self evident Jesus was not a Christian. I did however for some reason think Paul was the founder of Christianity, I could be wrong I have been out of theological school for quite awhile and the subject has never come up.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Somkid said:
To the best of my knowledge Jesus was a Jew and I have seen him referred to as Rabbi in any event it is self evident Jesus was not a Christian.
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But a Christian is a follower of Christ. Jesus, as the founder of Christianity, could hardly have been His own follower. He was the one who proclaimed the doctrines, ordinances and organizational structure of His Church.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I don't get the whole Paul thing at all. "Christians" cite his words as if they were supposed to represent God's will. Why? Even the most devout, literalist Christian would agree that all the Paul was was some guy. That's it. For the Christian, he's some guy who had a vision of Jesus and went on to influence the early Church and scriptures etc. For the rest of us, he's just some guy, possibly schizophrenic or epileptic, who...But either way, why on earth is he in charge of creating your doctrine? Can some Christian please explain this to me? Like, who died and made him Jesus?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Autodidact said:
I don't get the whole Paul thing at all. "Christians" cite his words as if they were supposed to represent God's will. Why? Even the most devout, literalist Christian would agree that all the Paul was was some guy. That's it. For the Christian, he's some guy who had a vision of Jesus and went on to influence the early Church and scriptures etc. For the rest of us, he's just some guy, possibly schizophrenic or epileptic, who...But either way, why on earth is he in charge of creating your doctrine? Can some Christian please explain this to me? Like, who died and made him Jesus?
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Tradition. Is that so hard to understand?
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
Katzpur said:
Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Jesus Christ established His own Church, as far as I'm concerned. He left Peter in charge, but it wasn't Peter's Church.
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those are the lines along which i am thinking !what happened to the Jerusalem church what were its traditions and beliefs ? i know it was early years but there was a church or sect or splinter movement from Judaism started by Jesus and continued at his death by James , until the arrival of Paul, was this a different kind of Christianity i suspect so.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Mestemia said:
What tradition?
Just how many churches did he set up?
Can you list them?
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Holy Tradition.

Paul founded many churches according to the NT and church traditions - if I recall correctly Philippi, Thessaloniki, Ephesus, Galatia, Colossi, and many obscure Greek towns in between. His writings to these churches, of course, are the basis for Christianity.
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
angellous_evangellous said:
Holy Tradition.

Paul founded many churches according to the NT and church traditions - if I recall correctly Philippi, Thessaloniki, Ephesus, Galatia, Colossi, and many obscure Greek towns in between. His writings to these churches, of course, are the basis for Christianity.
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they would be the basis for pauline christianity
 
rheff78

rheff78

I'm your huckleberry.
Starfish said:
Christ is the founder. He organized a specific church. And the rock that is often interpreted to mean Peter, actually is referring to revelation. Revelation is the rock that his church is built upon. Christ called on Paul (through revelation) to carry on the work of his church.
Click to expand...

Where is the connection between Peter and revelation?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Autodidact said:
Is that supposed to be a good thing? We do it because we've always done it?
Also, traditions, including religious traditions, get changed a lot, or Christians would still be polygamous slave-owners.
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They sure do. Change, of course, is a part of Holy Tradition.
 
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