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Who gets to decide what's offensive?

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
If I get offended, that’s on me, because I just gave that person power over me and allowed their reality to become my own.

It’s my choice to either embrace to the comment or to be immune to it.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?

The mind and body (physiologically), when faced with an perceived attack (unconsciously) physically goes on the defensive (flight/fright/freeze response). The perceived danger (the brain can't tell the difference) makes people speak and/or act in a way they take offense.

What therapist teach (and what religious can do even) is be mindful that when they have these physiological reactions in defense they don't have to flight (avoid the conversation), they don't have to fight (make an insult), and don't have to freeze (say put one on ignore). They can be aware of their own reactions, take a breathe, and just respond in a civil way regardless the tone of the other person.

So it's not the body/mind's fault (it is not our fault and it is not the other person's fault) it/one takes offense and becomes offensive. There's no blaming unless people consciously and intentionally make insults as a means to "get others back" or prove their point by discrediting others (and other logical fallacies and tactics).

I feel it's best not to say--in general--"but I'm not one of them" and more so "I am one of them 'and' I choose to act otherwise when I'm mindful of my reactions."

The first statement sounds more of an ego thing when I think in online conversations. In general we recognize if our offense (whether acknowledged or not) is actual a real threat, acknowledge our physiological reactions to the perceived threat (if so be), accept it, and respond without "letting other people's actions define our character."


Cliff notes:

There's nothing wrong with taking offense... taking offense or realizing your mind/body has been challenged by a perceived threat is natural (the brain can't tell the difference between actual and perceived threats). It's what you DO that matters once you're mindful of it. You can freeze-ignore, you can flight-leave the conversation, you can fight-insult, or just not let it change your character and respond as you normally would regardless the other person's tone.

Taking offense can take many forms... some more healthier than others, but nothing wrong with it in and of itself. The brain doesn't differentiate like that but the mind tries to moralize what the brain does not.
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
I agree with you. It's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. Who gets to decide that their words aren't offensive to somebody else? If that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. At that point an apology on the part of the offender is in order, Imo.

There is a lot written in the Baha'i Writings about courtesy and how we should never offend people, but I have learned who is offended by those Writings so I won't post them to those people, once I know that they don't want to see them. I cannot always remember what everyone on the forum has said to me but I do my best.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
Of cause the one who is offended decides that he found what I said offensive.
That doesn't mean he gets to decide
  • that I meant it to be offending
  • that it is objectively offending
  • that he has a right to be compensated.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
People can choose to be offended; but that is irrelevant.

I'm offended by people who wear caps whilst driving cars. Queen (the band) & U2 offend me; many right wing politicians offend me; many left wing politicians offend me ... I could go on.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Eh, I might say "I don't mean to offend(or something of the like), but..." because sometimes what I say might be offensive to some, but I want it to be known that isn't my goal.

"You have a hole in the seat of your pants" could be said with a sneer, and in an insulting way. "You have a hole in the seat of your pants" can also be said simply to inform, because... well, most of us would want to know.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender.
To which I say: So what?

Now, you clearly get to decide if you are offended by the question. You don't get to decide if the question is offensive, nor do you get to decide whether the question is unwarranted.

The human to human relationship ain't that easy.
Nor is it that simplistic, and boldly granting folks the (universal) right to be offended strikes me as simplistic in the extreme.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
Of course it is the "offendee". They are the one doing the feeling.

Though I do prescribe that people learn not to feel "hurt" by mere words. Let the offense remain an affront to your intellect and seek a route to level the playing field, but don't let the words "hurt" you such that you complain and cavil about whatever it was that was said. If it was only said, and remains just there, then what really happened? Nothing much, in my estimation.

To be "hurt" by words is to grant the speaker of those words an amount of power over you. I try not to let this happen as often and as much as I possibly can. They, trying to offend me? Pah - they can stuff it up their arse. if the gloves are off, then the gloves are off. Perhaps we'll see how much they like it once it is a two way street. I know I can take it. Words just do not have to hurt - and so I, personally, have decided that they do not. Others get all in a huff, or perhaps even enraged. And what good did that do? They likely lost their head, or got confounded and couldn't muster an adequate reply. Keep cool, brush away the nonsense, assess the situation, and call it like it is. That is a much, much more surprising turn to the offender than is the tail being turned, or the rage mounting and getting the better of the offendee.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
It can be so individual sometimes and historical/cultural.

I had a boss who suggested to a lesbian that she get a boyfriend and that she might like it. She snapped back at him that he should get a boyfriend and he might like it. The boss was very happy at the response because he was testing her ability to stand up for herself and she passed with flying colors.

That was decades ago. Today? Harassment complaint.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?
It can be either parties fault. Someone can be too easily offended in which case it's their fault. Or someone can be too discourteous or rude and so it is their fault. So who decides? It should be judged fairly on a case by case basis. But all that is just a matter of common courtesy and decency.

I agree freedom of speech so I don't think this should be a matter of law or even cancel culture mob tactics.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?

The offendee gets to introspect about their emotional state.

However, if they’re offended because they misinterpreted what was being said, “I didn’t mean it like that” is a valid defense (though the offender should still be courteous and empathetic that the offendee is experiencing shock).

@JustGeorge also had a good point that it’s not always a defense but more a declaration of intention: I didn’t tell you that you have a little zit on your nose to offend you, I told you because it’s something I would want to know, etc.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The mind and body (physiologically), when faced with an perceived attack (unconsciously) physically goes on the defensive (flight/fright/freeze response). The perceived danger (the brain can't tell the difference) makes people speak and/or act in a way they take offense.

What therapist teach (and what religious can do even) is be mindful that when they have these physiological reactions in defense they don't have to flight (avoid the conversation), they don't have to fight (make an insult), and don't have to freeze (say put one on ignore). They can be aware of their own reactions, take a breathe, and just respond in a civil way regardless the tone of the other person.

So it's not the body/mind's fault (it is not our fault and it is not the other person's fault) it/one takes offense and becomes offensive. There's no blaming unless people consciously and intentionally make insults as a means to "get others back" or prove their point by discrediting others (and other logical fallacies and tactics).

I feel it's best not to say--in general--"but I'm not one of them" and more so "I am one of them 'and' I choose to act otherwise when I'm mindful of my reactions."

The first statement sounds more of an ego thing when I think in online conversations. In general we recognize if our offense (whether acknowledged or not) is actual a real threat, acknowledge our physiological reactions to the perceived threat (if so be), accept it, and respond without "letting other people's actions define our character."


Cliff notes:

There's nothing wrong with taking offense... taking offense or realizing your mind/body has been challenged by a perceived threat is natural (the brain can't tell the difference between actual and perceived threats). It's what you DO that matters once you're mindful of it. You can freeze-ignore, you can flight-leave the conversation, you can fight-insult, or just not let it change your character and respond as you normally would regardless the other person's tone.

Taking offense can take many forms... some more healthier than others, but nothing wrong with it in and of itself. The brain doesn't differentiate like that but the mind tries to moralize what the brain does not.

I see nothing wrong with taking offense either. But I do find it troublesome that folks who offend, intentionally or not, excuse themselves, and hence continue to do it. Good way to lose friends, in my opinion.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The offendee gets to introspect about their emotional state.

However, if they’re offended because they misinterpreted what was being said, “I didn’t mean it like that” is a valid defense (though the offender should still be courteous and empathetic that the offendee is experiencing shock).

@JustGeorge also had a good point that it’s not always a defense but more a declaration of intention: I didn’t tell you that you have a little zit on your nose to offend you, I told you because it’s something I would want to know, etc.

Thanks for your insights. The part about being courteous and empathetic struck me. Many times the offending party has no idea, and sometimes there's no way of knowing as the offendee has learned how to hide it, or merely walked away.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Thanks for your insights. The part about being courteous and empathetic struck me. Many times the offending party has no idea, and sometimes there's no way of knowing as the offendee has learned how to hide it, or merely walked away.

My uncle sometimes offends without meaning to. He realizes he does this, but despite being an old man, he still doesn't recognize when its happening. He told me once that if I ever was offended by him, just tell him to shut up. Most of the time, it works, and he takes the hint and changes the subject.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
My uncle sometimes offends without meaning to. He realizes he does this, but despite being an old man, he still doesn't recognize when its happening. He told me once that if I ever was offended by him, just tell him to shut up. Most of the time, it works, and he takes the hint and changes the subject.

I'm the type who walks away, unless there is some vested reason to keep the relationship. I would let the colleagues know when they told sexist or racist jokes, offensive to someone, obviously, and offensive to me, if indirectly.

I've had a few friendship divorces over it, but I don't care. None were close friendships anyway, and they're most likely happy they don't have to put up with me either. I'm glad your uncle made an effort to change.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm the type who walks away, unless there is some vested reason to keep the relationship. I would let the colleagues know when they told sexist or racist jokes, offensive to someone, obviously, and offensive to me, if indirectly.

I've had a few friendship divorces over it, but I don't care. None were close friendships anyway, and they're most likely happy they don't have to put up with me either. I'm glad your uncle made an effort to change.

Yeah, sometimes if its something that happens often, its best just to go separate ways. Though sometimes you find odd couples, so to speak, most of the time friendships with vastly different value systems are difficult.

I think Uncle tried to give us kids a way to deal with him. He'd get sad sometimes when he realized he'd hurt one of us, as that wasn't his intent. He's just so direct, he can't help himself sometimes. He means to help, but doesn't always understand not everybody is as tough(emotionally) as he is.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
"Oh I didn't mean it that way."
"Please don't get offended, but ..."
"But you took it the wrong way ..."
"You shouldn't be offended by that."
etc

To me, it's the offendee who gets to decide, not the offender. To be clear, I'm rarely offended by what someone says on here or in life, although it has happened. But what I see is folks deciding for the other person, the person they offend. Who are you to decide that your words aren't offensive to somebody else? It that person says, "I'm offended." then they're offended. You can't just tell them they're not, and suddenly expect them to believe you. The human to human relationship ain't that easy. Sorry.

Thoughts?

I'm offended. :p
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yeah, sometimes if its something that happens often, its best just to go separate ways. Though sometimes you find odd couples, so to speak, most of the time friendships with vastly different value systems are difficult.

I think Uncle tried to give us kids a way to deal with him. He'd get sad sometimes when he realized he'd hurt one of us, as that wasn't his intent. He's just so direct, he can't help himself sometimes. He means to help, but doesn't always understand not everybody is as tough(emotionally) as he is.

One of the older board members at our temple is like that. He has no clue how he comes across, poor guy. I have empathy for him because of it, but it ain't gonna change. Some people who are used to bossing others around can get like that, almost out of habit, and the older you are, the harder it is to change.
 
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