Who do you pray to?

[Unveiled Artist]

I was asked this by an nice heavy minded evangalistic christian pastor this morning. He told me the pentecle ring I wore pulls evil spirits. He educated me about my wooden buddhist bracelet that I bought from a tourist shop; he says it has the spirit of the devil. He disrespected the Church by puting down the Cross. Yet, in all this, it was all good intentioned. No arguing, just the bus driver and i chatting.

Then he asks, "who do you pray to?" Taken aback, I had to reflect. I pray to the sun. Inpray to the moon. I pray to out loud in gratitude for my life. I dont pray to the God of any scripture Abrahamic, Eastern, mythological, or otherwise.

"I dont pray to anyone." I said.

"But you do pray?"

"Yes." Now im shifting in my seat.

"To who?"

"Life" is all that I could slip from mouth. "Gratitude for living." but i realizing I am justifying my faith and holding back. Why?

He tells me if I am not specific in my prayers, I could be praying to demons and the devil and wouls not know it. I dont believe in either.

Q: So, I said, I will get back with him more in our conversation. I know he is well meaning, but how do you tell someone like him, who you pray to?

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't generally pray at all, except sometimes for abstract things like strength or focus. Then, I pray to the appropriate God who oversees the thing I need; I'd pray to Thunor for strength, or Woden for focus, for example.

Anyone telling me that I'm "invoking demons and devils" can get a question from me: how do they know that they're not invoking demons and devils?

 

[Quintessence]

I would have to ask the person what they mean by the question. Even within a strictly Abrahamic context, the term "prayer" has multiple meanings and can indicate different types of activities.

By "prayer" do they mean talking to one's gods? Sure. I do that on a daily basis. As I go into work, I frequently see squirrels on the grounds, and I say hello to them, sometimes out loud. But often the acknowledgements are silent - a mental hello to various things in my environment that strike me. Some days I'll make an exercise of it. I'll say hello to the crow. Hello to the pavement. Hello to the automobile. Hello to the grass. Is this what they mean? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean confessing sins to one's gods? Sure. Though I've gotten out of the habit of it, I used to spend full moons having introspective chats with Moon Spirit, during which time I'd say just about anything that was on my mind. I'd reflect on what I'd done during the previous moonth, and think about what's coming for the next. But is this the sort of thing the person asking the question likely means? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean placating one's gods for aid or blessings? Sure. Invoking the names of various gods is common in basic rites of my path. Wasn't too long ago that I did a house blessing in honor of Lady Hestia. Such gestures are not "oh, pity poor me, I'm going to beg you to help," but gestures of respect and acknowledgement. Either that, or I do spellcraft, which, from a certain point of view, is prayer. I'm a co-creator in these things, not a passive recipient, and the gods aren't some magic fix-it button. Then, is this the sort of thing that they mean? Probably not.

So who do I pray to? Regardless of the meaning, I pray to (or more commonly, with or for) the gods, of course. But what that means to me is likely very different than what it means to the person (likely some flavor of Abrahamic or atheist) doing the asking.

 

[Politesse]

First of all, I don't believe in accidental invocation. If one cannot accidentally summon a demon while ordering a pizza, I see no reason why one would be more likely to do so while praying to Paul's "unknown god". Really! Intention matters in this universe. Or if it doesn't, there's no point in worrying about any prayer reaching its destination.

As for prayer, I most often pray to the Christian gods I grew up with, for those are my habits of mind and I see little reason to abandon them. But I also talk to my other kindred spirits from time to time; Lord Ganesha, the Lwa I have spoken with, Coyote. It can depend upon my purpose, or where I am. In daily life, I greet the trees and animals and winds I am familiar with. When I am traveling (as I often am) I try to honor the local gods and speak to them respectfully while I am there.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't generally pray at all, except sometimes for abstract things like strength or focus. Then, I pray to the appropriate God who oversees the thing I need; I'd pray to Thunor for strength, or Woden for focus, for example.

Anyone telling me that I'm "invoking demons and devils" can get a question from me: how do they know that they're not invoking demons and devils?

True. If it werent disrespectful, Id figure a way to ask.

 

[Jainarayan]

Day to day I talk to the Gods, mostly to Thor, obviously. During my ritual, call it blót, sumbel or just "offering" (candles, incense, drink, maybe food) I recite some prayers and poems I've collected that are praises and hails to various deities. That's well within the tradition of blót and sumbel. but it's not really necessary, so I try to keep it short. I've begun thinking about my ancestors more, of late. I don't really talk to them yet, but I have set up a little shrine with their pictures where I'll put little offerings. Seeing as most of my ancestors were Italian and Sicilian, I'll put strong black coffee, red table wine, and some other little things Italians like. I offer mead and beer to the Gods, spirits and Germanic ancestors. Heimdallr might take a sip of the black coffee. I can just hear him... "hoo wee! that's strong!"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. I have to rephrase the question since its a retorical and i thought maybe yall can give me advice on what to say to him.

I would have to ask the person what they mean by the question. Even within a strictly Abrahamic context, the term "prayer" has multiple meanings and can indicate different types of activities.

By "prayer" do they mean talking to one's gods? Sure. I do that on a daily basis. As I go into work, I frequently see squirrels on the grounds, and I say hello to them, sometimes out loud. But often the acknowledgements are silent - a mental hello to various things in my environment that strike me. Some days I'll make an exercise of it. I'll say hello to the crow. Hello to the pavement. Hello to the automobile. Hello to the grass. Is this what they mean? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean confessing sins to one's gods? Sure. Though I've gotten out of the habit of it, I used to spend full moons having introspective chats with Moon Spirit, during which time I'd say just about anything that was on my mind. I'd reflect on what I'd done during the previous moonth, and think about what's coming for the next. But is this the sort of thing the person asking the question likely means? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean placating one's gods for aid or blessings? Sure. Invoking the names of various gods is common in basic rites of my path. Wasn't too long ago that I did a house blessing in honor of Lady Hestia. Such gestures are not "oh, pity poor me, I'm going to beg you to help," but gestures of respect and acknowledgement. Either that, or I do spellcraft, which, from a certain point of view, is prayer. I'm a co-creator in these things, not a passive recipient, and the gods aren't some magic fix-it button. Then, is this the sort of thing that they mean? Probably not.

So who do I pray to? Regardless of the meaning, I pray to (or more commonly, with or for) the gods, of course. But what that means to me is likely very different than what it means to the person (likely some flavor of Abrahamic or atheist) doing the asking.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Im sorry guys, the question was mlre retorical. I was wondering, when he asks me that question, how would i really answer it? How would you? Given no disrespect.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He was wondering if I prayed, ask aid and talk to Jesus as God. I told him no. I do pretty much what you do. I also bow to the sun in the morning, giving my thanks. I talked with my friend with a JW and she was okay listening to differing beliefs. He, on the other hand....

I would have to ask the person what they mean by the question. Even within a strictly Abrahamic context, the term "prayer" has multiple meanings and can indicate different types of activities.

By "prayer" do they mean talking to one's gods? Sure. I do that on a daily basis. As I go into work, I frequently see squirrels on the grounds, and I say hello to them, sometimes out loud. But often the acknowledgements are silent - a mental hello to various things in my environment that strike me. Some days I'll make an exercise of it. I'll say hello to the crow. Hello to the pavement. Hello to the automobile. Hello to the grass. Is this what they mean? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean confessing sins to one's gods? Sure. Though I've gotten out of the habit of it, I used to spend full moons having introspective chats with Moon Spirit, during which time I'd say just about anything that was on my mind. I'd reflect on what I'd done during the previous moonth, and think about what's coming for the next. But is this the sort of thing the person asking the question likely means? Probably not.

By "prayer" do they mean placating one's gods for aid or blessings? Sure. Invoking the names of various gods is common in basic rites of my path. Wasn't too long ago that I did a house blessing in honor of Lady Hestia. Such gestures are not "oh, pity poor me, I'm going to beg you to help," but gestures of respect and acknowledgement. Either that, or I do spellcraft, which, from a certain point of view, is prayer. I'm a co-creator in these things, not a passive recipient, and the gods aren't some magic fix-it button. Then, is this the sort of thing that they mean? Probably not.

So who do I pray to? Regardless of the meaning, I pray to (or more commonly, with or for) the gods, of course. But what that means to me is likely very different than what it means to the person (likely some flavor of Abrahamic or atheist) doing the asking.

 

[Riverwolf]

True. If it werent disrespectful, Id figure a way to ask.

Way I see it, in the real world (so outside of RF's rules), if they're not respecting me and my beliefs, their beliefs aren't getting respect from me.

The only reason I might not say that isn't to stay respectful, but simply out of fear that others who overhear might butt in and overcomplicate matters.

But I do respect your desire to stay respectful. ^_^ A less direct, more respectful way to ask might be, "Well, how can we determine who to trust?"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Basically. And yes, that is what people do, interject their opinions. I rarely can talk to anyone about my relationship with the earth and people as a whole. It always turn into a christian convo with the focus on them since they feel they have the majority vote.

Way I see it, in the real world (so outside of RF's rules), if they're not respecting me and my beliefs, their beliefs aren't getting respect from me.

The only reason I might not say that isn't to stay respectful, but simply out of fear that others who overhear might butt in and overcomplicate matters.

But I do respect your desire to stay respectful. ^_^ A less direct, more respectful way to ask might be, "Well, how can we determine who to trust?"

 

[Riverwolf]

Basically. And yes, that is what people do, interject their opinions. I rarely can talk to anyone about my relationship with the earth and people as a whole. It always turn into a christian convo with the focus on them since they feel they have the majority vote.

One time a friend of mine and I were just singing "Home Is Behind" from Return of the King (aka, the song that Pippin sang), and some guy walking the other way apparently didn't recognize what we were singing and encouraged us to keep praying for rain. DX (I live in California, and he's an agnostic-atheist.)

 

[arthra]

Carlita:

A few years ago or so.. I ran a poll on some of the forums asking the question if they believed in the Devil... Usually some of the Christians would indicate they do believe in the Devil. So if this Pastor truly believes in Satan or the Devil I don't think you'll ever provide him with a satisfactory response because he'll simply reply that you're deceived.

Sorry I think I posted in the DIR.

 

[Jainarayan]

Thank you. I have to rephrase the question since its a retorical and i thought maybe yall can give me advice on what to say to him.

I would turn it around and ask him why he's asking. That's a very personal question to ask someone. If someone made a comment about my hammer I would tell them flat out they don't know what they're talking about and they're on the verge of offending me (if they haven't already).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thats okay. I think they are more concernes with outright comments that disrespect DIR participants.

I think youre right. Ive tried to explain the buddhist beads and he kept talking about idols and spirits. I agree that spirits can inhabit objects but I never believed that the nature of a spirit/personn who lives beyond his physical death, is inheritedly good or evil. He is also from outside the US, in Africa. A lot of practices that are literal there, like the Lucumi faith are mostly symbolic to a lot of modern pagans I talk with here on and offline.

I did a thread about the Ouji board which, according to the driver, the board itself holds evil spirits. Some things I feel is superstition.

Dont know. One of those things.

Carlita:

A few years ago or so.. I ran a poll on some of the forums asking the question if they believed in the Devil... Usually some of the Christians would indicate they do believe in the Devil. So if this Pastor truly believes in Satan or the Devil I don't think you'll ever provide him with a satisfactory response because he'll simply reply that you're deceived.

Sorry I think I posted in the DIR.

 

[wizanda]

I know he is well meaning, but how do you tell someone like him, who you pray to?

You supersede every thought he could have.... So start with praying to something that clearly fits within his understanding; yet goes beyond it... So pray to 'the most high'.

Next fear is the opposite of faith, so within it... If he doubts so much, and thinks that satan will interact with everything, remind him of what Yeshua stated, 'that you should only bow, to the lord your God'.

 

[Aštra’el]

I "pray" to Ishtar more than any other deity. I "pray" to Lilith often as well, and on extremely rare occasions I will pray to YHWH​

 

[Frolicking_Fox]

Ares and Artemis, mostly. But, I do pray to other Hellene Gods

 

[Sundance]

For the most part, I pray to Jah/Yah/El and Asherah.

 

[Sundance]

As for myself, I pray to Jah/Yah/El and Asherah.