White Men Can't Jump

[Rakhel]

In another thread, it was suggested that "white" entertainers should market to "white" audiences. And "black" entertainers should market to "black" audiences.

So, along those lines let's examine white and black and where everyone stands,

It took almost forever for black sports stars to enter most major sports arenas, mostly due to prejudices. Jackie Robinson(baseball), Earl Lloyd(basketball), Charles Follis(football).

In acting, the winning of an award was even harder. Hattie McDaniel was the first black woman to win an award for supporting actress and in 1982 Louis Gossett. Jr for supporting actor. But it wasn't until 1963 that Sidney Poitier that won an award for Leading role and 2001 when Halle Barry won hers.

In 1955, Marian Anderson, broke many stereotypes not only as an Opera singer but by becoming the first black person to perform at the Met in New York city. She was followed by George Shirley in 1961.

Rap is interesting. Of course, you can find it's roots in the African culture. but over the years many white entertainers have made their mark. Beastie boys, Eminem, Cypress Hill, Bubba Sparks and ICP. A unique rapper I just found is Signmark. Can't understand a word the guy says. Many because he's Finnish and happens to be deaf. How that works, I don't know but apparently it does for him.

And we might as well forget dance. That took until 1955 when Arthur Mitchell became the first black male principal in a ballet performance, but it wasn't until 1990 when a beautiful black woman by the name of Lauren Anderson became the principal.

So Elvis Presley sang the blues and now MIley is twerking and Robin Thicke is singing R&B

My question is what is wrong with breaking stereotypes?
I can understand if someone is lacking talent in that area. But this is not about lack of talent or ability. Should we say that since black people can't ballroom dance, then they don't belong on the dance floor? Or that black actors aren't that good at marketing to white audiences because they lack the acting required to get awards they are nominated for?
I mean, what happened to equality and to hell with segregation? or does that door open one way?

 

[Revoltingest]

Bigotry is a varied & pervasive thing, eh.
People ought'a do what calls to them, even if it's unconventional.

 

[Horrorble]

Oh girl you misinterpreted

 

[dust1n]

In another thread, it was suggested that "white" entertainers should market to "white" audiences. And "black" entertainers should market to "black" audiences.

This is already done heavily. I'm not sure why someone would suggest why all entertainers need to follow this.

 

[dawny0826]

Oh girl you misinterpreted

You specifically insinuated in another thread that an American white performance artist was able to use her "white privilege" to market her music, without providing any evidence that her sales are attributable to "privilege".

She sells to a culturally diverse audience. She couldn't sell her product, if people weren't into it.

Per the OP, people of various ethnic and cultural backgrounds have been pushing the envelope of stereotypes within the music and dance industries for years.

Art, in general, is constantly redefined and when we bust through racial barriers, much like gender barriers, we come closer to inclusivity not only within artistic industry, but, in our own communities as well.

I think it's a great thing, personally. Shouldn't we be looking at the artist for what the artist has to offer? If we attach stereotypes, we're guilty of fueling a larger fire which is counterproductive to achieving equality and inclusivity for the races who are negately impacted through the use of negative stereotypes and labels.

 

[Horrorble]

You specifically insinuated in another thread that an American white performance artist was able to use her "white privilege" to market her music, without providing any evidence that her sales are attributable to "privilege".

She sells to a culturally diverse audience. She couldn't sell her product, if people weren't into it.

Per the OP, people of various ethnic and cultural backgrounds have been pushing the envelope of stereotypes within the music and dance industries for years.

Art, in general, is constantly redefined and when we bust through racial barriers, much like gender barriers, we come closer to inclusivity not only within artistic industry, but, in our own communities as well.

I think it's a great thing, personally. Shouldn't we be looking at the artist for what the artist has to offer? If we attach stereotypes, we're guilty of fueling a larger fire which is counterproductive to achieving equality and inclusivity for the races who are negately impacted through the use of negative stereotypes and labels.

Did I say white people should only market to other white people? and black people should only market to other black people? No I didn't, what I said has nothing to do with this OP

 

[dawny0826]

Did I say white people should only market to other white people? and black people should only market to other black people? No I didn't, what I said has nothing to do with this OP

I didn't suggest that you stated that white people should only market to other white people. Nor did I suggest that you stated that black people should only market to black people.

This is what you said:

I said she can't dance and looks ridiculous and try hard, if she looked in her element, people like Rhianna may have reacted differently.
But she is white so can market it to a white audience without being called "ghetto trash" so I guess she knows how to use her privilege well to make money, and in that sense she is smart

If I misread you, I apologize. But, in context, this does read as...she's using her white privilege well to make money.

If this isn't what you meant, I'm sorry.

If you did intend for that to read "white privilege" in context, what I've posted is directly relative to this thread.

 

[Horrorble]

I didn't suggest that you stated that white people should only market to other white people. Nor did suggest that you stated that black people should only market to black people.

This is what you said:



If I misread you, I apologize. But, in context, this does read as...she's using her white privilege well to make money.

If this isn't what you meant, I'm sorry.

If you did intend for that to read "white privilege" in context, what I've posted is directly relative to this thread.

What has that got to with the OP which says this: "In another thread, it was suggested that "white" entertainers should market to "white" audiences. And "black" entertainers should market to "black" audiences." ???????

That's why I said she misinterpreted what I said. so?


Yes white people can use their privilege to takes things from other cultures and make money off it by making it more mainstream and popular and more appealing to other white people.

 

[dawny0826]

What has that got to with the OP which says this: "In another thread, it was suggested that "white" entertainers should market to "white" audiences. And "black" entertainers should market to "black" audiences." ???????

That's why I said she misinterpreted what I said. so?

In Rahkel's original post, Horrorble, she also asks these questions:

My question is what is wrong with breaking stereotypes?
I can understand if someone is lacking talent in that area. But this is not about lack of talent or ability. Should we say that since black people can't ballroom dance, then they don't belong on the dance floor? Or that black actors aren't that good at marketing to white audiences because they lack the acting required to get awards they are nominated for?
I mean, what happened to equality and to hell with segregation? or does that door open one way?

My posts are relevant to this thread, because I addressed these questions by posting the following:

Per the OP, people of various ethnic and cultural backgrounds have been pushing the envelope of stereotypes within the music and dance industries for years.

Art, in general, is constantly redefined and when we bust through racial barriers, much like gender barriers, we come closer to inclusivity not only within artistic industry, but, in our own communities as well.

I think it's a great thing, personally. Shouldn't we be looking at the artist for what the artist has to offer? If we attach stereotypes, we're guilty of fueling a larger fire which is counterproductive to achieving equality and inclusivity for the races who are negately impacted through the use of negative stereotypes and labels.

Yes white people can use their privilege to takes things from other cultures and make money off it by making it more mainstream and popular and more appealing to other white people.

Art doesn't belong to any specific culture and people bust through these ridiculous stereotypes within the artistic industries all the time, per Rakhel's post. She gave great examples.

How is what Miley has done in any way a demonstration of privilege?

You still have not substantiated this claim. This is your opinion. If you can show me evidence that she's purposefully targeting white audiences and statistically prove that she's successful in alienating or disadvantaging other cultures through this (which is what white privilege means), then I can take this more seriously.

 

[Me Myself]

My question is what is wrong with breaking stereotypes?

Breaking stereotypes is fun.

Fun=wrong

Hope that answered your question.

 

[Horrorble]

In Rahkel's original post, Horrorble, she also asks these questions:

.

And I wasn't addressing those questions I was addressing where she said I suggest black people could only market to a black audience...

Art doesn't belong to any specific culture and people bust through these ridiculous stereotypes within the artistic industries all the time, per Rakhel's post. She gave great examples.

How is what Miley has done in any way a demonstration of privilege?

You still have not substantiated this claim. This is your opinion. If you can show me evidence that she's purposefully targeting white audiences and statistically prove that she's successful in alienating or disadvantaging other cultures through this (which is what white privilege means), then I can take this more seriously.

I realise that people of colour have had to struggle more to get into white dominated fields then people like elvis or miley have had to struggle to get attention and money from her "twerking" that right there is white privilege.

 

[dawny0826]

I realise that people of colour have had to struggle more to get into white dominated fields then people like elvis or miley have had to struggle to get attention and money from her "twerking" that right there is white privilege.

I too realize that people of color have had to struggle more, which is why I appreciate inclusivity in the music industry. You never commented on the rest of my post. I don't think you and I are that different in what we want in terms of equality and fairness.

Comparing the struggles of minorities during the time that Elvis was coming into his own to Miley Cyrus in 2013 is like comparing apples to oranges, though.

For Miley to be using "white privilege", her actions would have to be oppressive to those who are of other ethnicities. Your insinuation by using the term "white privilege" is that these other groups are incapable or were inacapable of making twerking popular, BECAUSE they aren't white.

That's asinine when you examine the situation. Has anyone else in recent years exploited the term and dance in the way that she has?

This is Rahkel's point, which you continue to skirt. Why is this a problem? Why can't a white girl twerk and make it popular, particularly when other people, A DIVERSE BASE, are buying into it? Could this not be an issue of Miley finding the right way to do it first. Why is her race necessarily an issue? Do her actions not help to further inclusivity in the music industry?

ANYONE ELSE in the music industry can use the same type of dance and blow Miley out of the water if they want to. Can they not?

You still haven't demonstrated how she's using any type of privilege over other performance artists who happen to be of other ethnicities.

 

[Curious George]

I too realize that people of color have had to struggle more, which is why I appreciate inclusivity in the music industry. You never commented on the rest of my post. I don't think you and I are that different in what we want in terms of equality and fairness.

Comparing the struggles of minorities during the time that Elvis was coming into his own to Miley Cyrus in 2013 is like comparing apples to oranges, though.

For Miley to be using "white privilege", her actions would have to be oppressive to those who are of other ethnicities. Your insinuation by using the term "white privilege" is that these other groups are incapable or were inacapable of making twerking popular, BECAUSE they aren't white.

That's asinine when you examine the situation. Has anyone else in recent years exploited the term and dance in the way that she has?

This is Rahkel's point, which you continue to skirt. Why is this a problem? Why can't a white girl twerk and make it popular, particularly when other people, A DIVERSE BASE, are buying into it? Could this not be an issue of Miley finding the right way to do it first. Why is her race necessarily an issue? Do her actions not help to further inclusivity in the music industry?

ANYONE ELSE in the music industry can use the same type of dance and blow Miley out of the water if they want to. Can they not?

You still haven't demonstrated how she's using any type of privilege over other performance artists who happen to be of other ethnicities.

White privilege does not have to be overtly oppressive. White privilege is just that- Privilege based on one's skin coloring or others' beliefs of their skin coloring. While our society has made great strides to challenge overt racism, there is still systemic and covert biases. From this, we now find statistical racial differences instead of blanket racism. Examples abound. But I will focus on housing and loans. Due to the difference in rental make-up in certain communities and due to the difference in loan distributions by some agencies, testing which isolates variables except for race have been employed to find that some people will deny loans and housing because of race. The favored race here is white. Consequently an element of white privilege is renting or getting a loan. This is not because your housing agency or loan company favors white people, but rather that some agencies do. As a consequence, it is easier for a white person to obtain a loan or housing. This is hard to see sometimes, especially when your housing agency or loan company is not discriminatory. But, the fact that more choices exist creates an advantage. Now, I can understand how one could argue that white privilege has allowed certain young performers more access to an industry and more parents will allow their children to listen or watch those performers with less scrutiny and more readily. I am not up to date on pop culture and have not seen this performer twerk. I can tell you that twerkin' has been around for a while.

 

[Me Myself]

The faster we stop making different rules for whites and blacks and reds and yellows and wetbacks and what have yous the faster racism stops.

This means stopping silly things like me being able to say wetback because I am latino but non latinos needing to be "racist" when they do it.

If you want racism to stop, you need to destroy all the double standards. No exceptions.

 

[dawny0826]

White privilege does not have to be overtly oppressive. White privilege is just that- Privilege based on one's skin coloring or others' beliefs of their skin coloring. While our society has made great strides to challenge overt racism, there is still systemic and covert biases. From this, we now find statistical racial differences instead of blanket racism. Examples abound. But I will focus on housing and loans. Due to the difference in rental make-up in certain communities and due to the difference in loan distributions by some agencies, testing which isolates variables except for race have been employed to find that some people will deny loans and housing because of race. The favored race here is white. Consequently an element of white privilege is renting or getting a loan. This is not because your housing agency or loan company favors white people, but rather that some agencies do. As a consequence, it is easier for a white person to obtain a loan or housing. This is hard to see sometimes, especially when your housing agency or loan company is not discriminatory. But, the fact that more choices exist creates an advantage. Now, I can understand how one could argue that white privilege has allowed certain young performers more access to an industry and more parents will allow their children to listen or watch those performers with less scrutiny and more readily. I am not up to date on pop culture and have not seen this performer twerk. I can tell you that twerkin' has been around for a while.

This isn't applicable in every community. If you'd like to discuss white privilege by definition... let's do it in another thread. I'm more than happy to discuss this in further detail.

 

[Father Heathen]

In another thread, it was suggested that "white" entertainers should market to "white" audiences. And "black" entertainers should market to "black" audiences.

Race shouldn't factor into entertainment. Either you enjoy something or your don't. And cultures can bridge, overlap and influence one another. Culture is fluid. Culture evolves. Also, people need to differentiate between race and culture, as they're two completely different things.
It's ridiculous when people try to drag "race" into subjects where it's not relevant. What's also ridiculous is the notion that a specific skin color "owns" a particular form of art or entertainment.

 

[Father Heathen]

miley have had to struggle to get attention and money from her "twerking" that right there is white privilege.

"Twerking" is nothing more than some embarrassingly stupid social fad like "planking" or "the harlem shake". Such things come and go (lemmings have bad taste and short attention spans). Why would anyone want to "claim" it? And to suggest that it "belongs to" or can be "stolen from" a racial group is just laughable rubbish.

It's like crying that white people who danced to "Macarina" (another horrible fad) back in the 90's "stole" from the Spanish.

 

[DallasApple]

"Twerking" is nothing more than some embarrassingly stupid social fad like "planking" or "the harlem shake". Such things come and go (lemmings have bad taste and short attention spans). Why would anyone want to "claim" it? And to suggest that it "belongs to" or can be "stolen from" a racial group is just laughable rubbish.

It's like crying that white people who danced to "Macarina" (another horrible fad) back in the 90's "stole" from the Spanish.

I agree...and seriously humping the air (which is basically what it is ) was not invented by black people.Maybe the term "twerking" was but as I said on another thread when i was clubbing a lot when I was younger you would have caught me making a fool of myself that way and no one "taught" me how to do that and I certainly didn't get it from black culture.We are talking 25+ years ago...and Im white in a mostly white community.I think what happened is it developed into an extreme version of "humping the air"...then given a name.Mystic said she did it too but I think she called it "popping that ***" or something.

As a matter of fact (much classier IMHO) but it reminds me of some moves in "belly dancing" or how the ladies shake their rears in the Hawaiian culture.Just this is an exaggerated version of how women have been moving their hips in dance since...well sine the beginning of humans dancing.

 

[Horrorble]

"Twerking" is nothing more than some embarrassingly stupid social fad like "planking" or "the harlem shake". Such things come and go (lemmings have bad taste and short attention spans). Why would anyone want to "claim" it? And to suggest that it "belongs to" or can be "stolen from" a racial group is just laughable rubbish.

It's like crying that white people who danced to "Macarina" (another horrible fad) back in the 90's "stole" from the Spanish.

Ok that did amuse me
The Macarina hehe

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree...and seriously humping the air (which is basically what it is ) was not invented by black people.Maybe the term "twerking" was but as I said on another thread when i was clubbing a lot when I was younger you would have caught me making a fool of myself that way and no one "taught" me how to do that and I certainly didn't get it from black culture.We are talking 25+ years ago...and Im white in a mostly white community.I think what happened is it developed into an extreme version of "humping the air"...then given a name.Mystic said she did it too but I think she called it "popping that ***" or something.

You're right. That's what I called it back then.

As a matter of fact (much classier IMHO) but it reminds me of some moves in "belly dancing" or how the ladies shake their rears in the Hawaiian culture.Just this is an exaggerated version of how women have been moving their hips in dance since...well sine the beginning of humans dancing.

Gender-specific dancing has taken on various forms, and some are more specific to the culture. Bellydance has hip gyrations and spinal undulations that move to a separate rhythm than Afro-Caribbean dance that was introduced from Creole culture in America and when Katherine Dunham arrived from Haiti. With swing dance, black gospel, and jazz beats emphasizing the 2 and 4 beats in musical phrasing (not like the 1 and 3 beats in american anglo music), the dancing became much more grounded and lower to the floor than the 3-dimensional carving seen in bellydance.

Take an Afro-Caribbean dance class, then take a bellydance class, and you'll see and feel the difference almost immediately. Legs are spread apart far in Afro-Caribbean dance, and you wind up with a deep knee bend nearly the whole time with various hip pops throughout on the downbeat. That doesn't happen in ballet, in broadway jazz, in country line dance, or in bellydance nearly as much throughout as in Afro-Caribbean, where modern-day "twerking" finds more of a a home with.