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White man like locusts:

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
The white man came and ravaged the land. How can we begin to right these wrongs?
The American Buffalo (also called American Bison; taxonomically correct name = American Plains Buffalo) was brought almost to extinction by overzealous hunters. In the 1800's, about 65 million buffalo roamed the prairies of the Great Plains. Herds were described up to 25 miles long, containing 12 million animals. Possibly the high population was a result of the elimination of other large herbivores that competed with the buffalo for food and space. Native Americans hunted the buffalo for thousands of years without making a dent in the population.

The great buffalo slaughter started with the arrival of settlers from Europe and especially the railroads in the 1860's. As the railroads pushed west, huge numbers of buffalo were killed for meat and hides, and to starve out the Native Americans. A representative of the Intertribal Bison Cooperative describes the buffalo slaughter as a calculated military strategy designed to force the Native Americans on to reservations. Professional hunters shot the animals for their tongues and hides and often left the carcasses to rot. About 2.5 million buffalo were killed annually between 1870 and 1875, and by 1883 the last large herd containing about 10,000 buffalo was slaughtered. Domestic cattle diseases may have also had a major impact on the herds. By 1890, less than 1000 buffalo remained in the U.S. The final refuge for the species was Yellowstone National Park, established in 1872.

Loss of the buffalo and other big prey animals caused wolves to turn their attention to farm animals, leading to organized efforts to exterminate them. Now they are an endangered species and subject of a controversial reintroduction program.

Buffalo-Hides-lg.jpg
A stack of buffalo hides at a Dodge City hide yard. Commercial buffalo hunters slaughtered the animals by the thousands and left their carcasses to rot on the Plains. Photo courtesy of the Kansas State Historical Society.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
I will have to imagine because I am a supporter, I no longer have the google ads on my page. What kind of buffalo pucky are they trying to sell?
 

Caprice

Member
EnhancedSpirit said:
How can we begin to right these wrongs?
At the risk of sounding rude, not to mention a little cold hearted, I feel the obligation to point out that you can't right the wrongs. It is way too late to even consider such folly. I won't even try to justify many of the cruel and horrible things that happened during the last two - three hundred years, but it just cannot be changed now.
:banghead3
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Caprice said:
At the risk of sounding rude, not to mention a little cold hearted, I feel the obligation to point out that you can't right the wrongs. It is way too late to even consider such folly. I won't even try to justify many of the cruel and horrible things that happened during the last two - three hundred years, but it just cannot be changed now.
:banghead3
I don't believe this. I believe that whatever seeds were sown then, we are responsible for the harvest. I believe we should be spending more time and energy on what we can do to replenish the land, but instead we are still trying to be seperate from nature.
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
EnhancedSpirit said:
I will have to imagine because I am a supporter, I no longer have the google ads on my page. What kind of buffalo pucky are they trying to sell?
They seem to be gone now...but they were all Buffalo Recipes/meat. Four at the top and four at the bottom. I don't mean to laugh, but that was rediculus...
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Ormiston said:
They seem to be gone now...but they were all Buffalo Recipes/meat. Four at the top and four at the bottom. I don't mean to laugh, but that was rediculus...
Actually, if the meat had been used as well, it wouldn't be so shameful as it was. Tons and tons of meat were left to rot in the fields. I wish we lived on buffalo burgers instead of cow burgers. I wish we had learned to flourish WITH THE LAND.
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
EnhancedSpirit said:
I don't believe this. I believe that whatever seeds were sown then, we are responsible for the harvest. I believe we should be spending more time and energy on what we can do to replenish the land, but instead we are still trying to be seperate from nature.
One thing I've learned in my life is that it is never too late to right the wrongs. And, I'm always amazed at how quickly things turn around once you try. In this country, the efforts always always follow the money. If you want to help the land you have to make it equitable financially. Any suggestions? (I was listening to a radio show last week that is usually only about hunting and there is a new trend in Michigan. Instead of hunters only hunting during hunting season, they spend the rest of the year taking care of the land they hunt on. Unfortunately I can't remember what this is called, but there is a ton of money in it.)
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
The mistakes of the past are lessons for today.
Today the Bison number over 350,000, both in the wild and in captivity. Its a start anyway.

The near loss of the Bison was one of the great shocks that brought the American people to realize the importance of nature and to start to work tword preserving it. The Buffalo nation suffered a lot for that lesson, but truth be told they would not have the mystery and power they do in most modern minds if they had not been so nearly lost.
They are one of the great success stories in our attempts to keep a species from going extinct. They paved the way back from the edge... today the California Condor, Bald Eagle and others were or are being saved by the tecniques first developed with the Bison.

Granted much work still needs to be done, but this is work for all humanity not just the whites.
Everyone has contributed to the tradgedy.

wa:do
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
If one wants to get racist , I can point fingers too . :)

As Ormiston pointed out , the thing that leads us into conflict with nature is GREED , not race . True , it was whites that had the technology to do this , but greed is not limited to whites .

Having said that , I think that " Man " is like locust . Very much so . And like the locust , we are in for a big fall . We can't keep breeding and eating up resourses like we do . The world is just getting too small .
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
EnhancedSpirit said:
I will have to imagine because I am a supporter, I no longer have the google ads on my page. What kind of buffalo pucky are they trying to sell?
I use Firefox browser so don't get adds anyway

Terry
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It's astounding how much damage we've done to the ecosystem of the North American continent in just a few hundred years.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Terrywoodenpic said:
I use Firefox browser so don't get adds anyway

Terry
I do too (use firefox) and I get ads because I'm an admin that has to check them occasionally
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Im using firefox, im not a supporter (yet) or admin, but the ads are right thier where they should be. Theres two of them selling Buffalo meat, one or 3.50 USD a pound. One ad is Bison meat, and teh other is for Animal Charities.

I would like to point out that wolves are no longer on the endagered species list. They have been moved up into the threatened.:woohoo:But thiers still along way to go.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Luke Wolf said:
Im using firefox, im not a supporter (yet) or admin, but the ads are right thier where they should be. Theres two of them selling Buffalo meat, one or 3.50 USD a pound. One ad is Bison meat, and teh other is for Animal Charities.

I would like to point out that wolves are no longer on the endagered species list. They have been moved up into the threatened.:woohoo:But thiers still along way to go.
I've been following the story of a pack that was put back out in the wild. They are incredible creatures. I can't believe we showed so much dishonor to our brother the wolf and the buffalo, and the beaver, for that matter. It is such a shame that the white man thought the Indians were inferior to them. If they had learned from them how to honor the earth instead of control it, we would be in such a better place than we are right now. IMO.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
We had to go a long way to learn respect, just as any people do. :bonk:
When my ancestors arived there were several species of Bison, not one... Mammoths and Mastodons, horses and camels. We hunted in bad ways, running whole herds of animals off cliffs and leaving most of it to rot.
The Megafauna died off, a combination of enviromental change and our influence.
The Anasazi deforested and over taxed thier land leading to thier dissapearance.
The 'Classic age' Mayans did the same...

We are not inherantly better than anyone elce, we had lessons to learn and we have been trying to remember them. Modern people need to learn the same lessons.

As for the adds for Bison meat... they are a good thing. The thing that helped and still helps most in keeping the Bison numbers growing is thier use as healthy food. If they wern't popular for both practical and emotional reasons they would not have thrived as they do. :cool:

This isn't a white/non-white issue... its not a modern/old issue... it is a human issue! :tsk:

This is a repeating pattern in human existance, every culture, every race, every time has had to face its impact on the environment and decide how to deal with it.
Some (like the Anasazi) make bad choices and suffer for them some (like the Navajo) make good choices and thrive.
We have the unique position to be able to look back at the choices of our ancestors (all our ancestors) and see what did and didn't work and then make our choise.:cool:

wa:do
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
painted wolf said:
This isn't a white/non-white issue... its not a modern/old issue... it is a human issue! :tsk:
wa:do
I'm not trying to make this a racial issue. I am merely stating history as it happened. It wasn't the Japanese or the Koreans who bought most of America for beads and then raped it of it's natural resources. I am a mix breed, myself, and I don't mean to sound judgemental. It just chaps my hide, that's all.
 

niceguy

Active Member
Whats grievs me is when we know what needs to be done but we just don't have the power to do it. I cannot boycott products that I can not afford anyway. It dosen't matter one bit if I continue to not buing products produced made from endagered species, those who do continue anyway. I may protest but those who rape the land ignore me so what am I to do?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
History is that everyone was messing up this land not just the whites. Native Americans were active fur hunters for trade as were the growing populations of blacks, asians and others who came in. No one people were saints and no one people were monsters.

Regardless of who did what, whats done is done... we need to look to the future.

Today tribal nations decide to let oil companies drill thier lands and Mines to operate and waste dumps to be put in... We need to look at what is going on now not complain about what happined in the past.

Niceguy you are not just one person... there are many who want to do the right thing. However so long as every thinks that they 'are just one person' and that they are powerless to act then they are right. You are as powerless as you think you are.
Organizations help many small voices become larger ones... some companies work to help the environment as they do what they must to make money, you can learn which companies do and support them over the wasteful ones... when you purchase items you can choose to buy those ones that are produced in sustainable ways.. you can reuse and recycle rather than just thow away...
You have options, you just need to look for them.

wa:do
 

niceguy

Active Member
Unless you have a ****tiy paying job that don't let you afford the enviromentally friendly products.

Many people who harm nature do so because they have no choice, let's say you live in africa and you family are starving, can you abstain from hunting some elephants for their tusks? Most of the pochers that hunt species to extinxtion don't really have a choice.

The same happens with deforestation, much are cut, not for their timber but to clear land for farming. We in the western world have to litterary burn crops since our farmers have the skill and equipment to overproduce en masse. The farmers in the developing countries cannot afford to do this. In poor country many have to farm their own food or starve. They also get little payment for their products since they are often outcompeted by many other farmers like them and mass producing farmes in the western world.

The root of the problem, as I see it is greed. Greed motivates capitalism, it is also considered a mortal sin.
 
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