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Which Religions Will Die Out?

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Scientology doesn't say anything specifically regarding God or Gods. Nor are there any required rituals. So you are free to adopt any view of God or none, follow any rituals you feel appropriate.

They believe in a soul they call a thetan. The thetan is not a thing, it is the source of creation.

The pursuit of Scientology is the pursuit of the 8th dynamic which is the supreme self. The first dynamic the self incarnate as you are now. Ethics is based on the survival through each dynamic. Dynamics are urges or desires. The desire for self survival. The second dynamic is the desire for creativity or to survive creatively. Third is group or family, forth is species, fifth is all life. Spiritually you come to realize the self in all things eventually realizing the eighth dynamic.

They way they deal with kharma is through what they call engrams. This are events which occurred in either a current or past life. Either done by or to you which have negatively influenced your life. What they have you do is recall these events which allow you to realize the source of the negative kharma. Once you've realize the source of this negative influence your are able to let go of it.

This negative "kharma" is what keeps the thetan trapped within it's physical form. The ideal is to release the thetan from these negative influence so it can realize the self through all dynamics eventually obtaining realization of the 8th dynamic.

They train auditors which assist the individual through this self realization.

Well yes and no. The problem in giving you a definitive answer about the goals and beliefs of Hinduism as a whole is that there are far too many differing interpretations and schools of thought to really pinpoint something that every Hindu necessarily believes. (Hell even reincarnation is up for debate in Hinduism.) But I can tell you what I was taught by my Hindu mother.

Okay so essentially you have what's called "Samsara." This is the endless cycle of death and rebirth. Now in Hinduism there are 4 main aims of the human life. These four aims combined go towards what's called "Moksha" which essentially means escaping the cycle. Samsara is actually one of them. The idea is that one is ignorant of their true self, often referred to as "Ego Consciousness." Thus one is confined to the cycle of Rebirth and death until they can "realize" themselves as you put it. The grounding of Karma is similar I agree. But Karma is merely a catalyst for Samsara and grounds you through desire rather than actively restraining your real self. Free will comes into play and you have to actively avoid bad karma in order to help you rise above the cycle, but this alone will not allow you to achieve Moksha. Karma is merely the grounding force and merely raising your Karma to "very good" or bettering it, does not automatically lead one to self realization. It's just one of the steps to achieve such a goal.
Then you have Dharma, which doesn't have an English word equivalent, sorry. Dharma relates to virtues and ethics. In a sense to try to attain Dharma is to try to live a very virtuous and "good" life. In essence anyway.
Then there's Artha, which when translated roughly means "meaning of life" or something similar. This relates to the physical/material world. Essentially this is about your goals and purpose in this world. So things like Financial security for breadwinners of the family might be one of your goals.
Then comes Karma. Karma is actually related to emotional, spiritual and sensual fulfillment. Some might argue that sexual fulfillment is a part of karma as well (provided you are already married, of course.) The idea of Karma in Hinduism is that your intentional thoughts, words and actions define you as a person. Good deeds will result in rewards, in either the next life or perhaps even goes towards the "escape" so to speak. Bad deeds will result in punishment, in either your current life or the next (for Samsara always carries with it the seeds of your Karmic history.) Interestingly, there is an idea that apathetic or disinterested actions do not have the same Karmic consequences as intentional or purposeful actions/thoughts. In Hinduism, though, your actions, thoughts and words specifically carry the consequences of Karma, not anyone else. You bear the brunt for all of your own Karmic consequences, not anyone else. So the idea of other people hurting your specific Karma or pinpointing the negatives (either yours or other people's) in order to specifically affect your Karma is not actually a thing in Hinduism. The only exception being that it is actually bad karma on yourself if you lead or influence others to go down a bad path. And any of the bad actions done under your instruction/influence reflects badly on your Karma, not necessarily on the one instructed.
This is where names actually arise in Hinduism. In the Indian culture it is usually believed that the name you give to a child will ultimately influence their personality and indeed themselves as a person. So you will often find people with names that have a very special and auspicious meaning to their parents religion. For example in Hinduism Swastika is actually a relatively popular name. This is because the Swastika in Hinduism is a very auspicious and Holy symbol. Used to symbolize peace and prosperity, the Sun God and even the name Swastika (which is Sanskrit) roughly translates into "To be one of good fortune."These sorts of names are chosen in order to try and influence good Karma, Dharma and Artha on your child/ren.

Now again, the specific definitions and what these 4 goals mean to a Hindu will vary depending on a lot of factors. So all I did was try to simplify them as much as I could. And I am, what I refer to as a, "Diluted Hindu." So make of that what you will.

Now the idea of the Deity. It is indeed true that one does not need to accept any specific Deity or really any Deity at all to become a Hindu (there are atheistic Hindus after all.) But that does not mean that there are no specific Deities in the Hindu religion. There is the Supreme Godhead. Either Brahma, Vishnu or Krishna (or Shiva) depending on what sect or school of thought you ascribe to. (To me, it's all just semantics anyway, but whatever.) Then you have the various manifestations or Avatars of the Godhead. Rama, Kali, Sita, Narayan, Hunumanji, Durga etc. Now of course there is a sort of "Hierarchy" of the various incarnations. But that will take too long to explain and indeed will differ from Hindu to Hindu. There are even Demons in Hinduism. The more superstitious Hindu will seek to escape their evil influence and indeed try to avoid their evil presence. (My Mother was particularly concerned about the "evil spirits" in the trees during the more windy months at home. So as a kid I had to tie up my hair if I wanted to go near large trees. lol) Though at the same time will still revere/respect them as they are a part of God's creation.

Now the idea of Hinduism as a religion is a complicated one. You see, many Hindus actually view the separate religions as nothing more than paths to reach the same destination. Many even view the other Deities as nothing more than the same Deity just called something different. As such the idea of Apostasy doesn't really exist. Nor does the idea of converting (to either Hinduism or any other religion) for many Hindus. I'm assuming that's the same in Scientology and why in both belief structures you can essentially mix and match your religious beliefs.
 
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The opposite argument can be made, it is entirely consistent with the concept and power of faith, love, that proof cannot be found. You cannot force somebody to love you or you destroy love.

i.e. the very fact that the universe is such a mystery, that continually tests our curiosity to it's limits, is consentient with being a creative work.

For an accidental mechanism to do the same would have to be chalked up to yet one more coincidence
I mostly agree. I am just saying IMHO that science will prove spirituality and the spirit world in the future that is all. And I have my own reasons as to why I believe that that I don't really want to get into right now.
 
How do you know that it did not already? Social and behavioral psychology are not incipient anymore. Nor is neurology.

What else is or would be missing?
I realize we have decent evidence for the spiritual. But what I am talking about is evidence the most hardcore skeptic can't deny. I am thinking of a time when people will be able to enter the spirit world and go out of body through nanobots, altering genetics, and similar things. It's just a matter of time. I can go into much more detail but I think you get the idea; if know about genetics, nanobots, astral projection or out of body experiences, and the power of technology to evolve. Doesn't take a genius to know that if out of body experiences are real that science will prove it without a doubt, giving everyone the ability to do it. That is assuming this phenomena is real and I have strong reason to believe it is. Some people are born with this ability to leave their body ever since they were born at night. They have just always naturally been able to do it. No doubt it's genetics that play a huge role in their ability to do this. I can go into further detail if you like.

Edit I will give you a hint. Once we get to the point where we can use nanobots to enter full consciousness immersion into video games we will be getting close to being able to alter our consciousness for things like kundalini awakening and out of body experiences.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I realize we have decent evidence for the spiritual.

I don't know about that. The word is just too vague to be much useful.


But what I am talking about is evidence the most hardcore skeptic can't deny.

So am I, but apparently evidence for something else entirely.

You seem to think of skepticism as some sort of problem or at least barrier. I do not.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
I mostly agree. I am just saying IMHO that science will prove spirituality and the spirit world in the future that is all. And I have my own reasons as to why I believe that that I don't really want to get into right now.

just out of curiosity- do you have something you would consider to be personal/direct experience of the supernatural/spirit world?
 
#1. There is no evidence that people are leaving Christianity in the West.

#2. Your statistics regarding Islam don't mean what you think they do. In order to become an increasingly percentage of the world's population Islam only has to keep pace with population growth. Since secular populations are shrinking and religious populations are growing, the increase in religious population results in an increasingly religious population. Secular people seldom have many children, while religious people often do.

Islamic population demographics pretty much assume everyone in every Islamic country is a Muslim, unless they belong to one of a few recognised religious minorities. If these minorities were converting to Islam at any significant rate then they wouldn't exist or would at least be visibly shrinking, which they are not. Islam is not therefore growing beyond population groups in the Islamic world. To not see it as shrinking in real terms, would require an apostasy rate of almost 0%. An incredibly low apostasy rate of even 0.001% would require maybe 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 actual conversions per year just to maintain parity.

These are not happening in the Islamic world, and contrary to what many people would have you believe, the number of people in the non-Islamic world who are converting remains very, very low. Give apostasy rates are probably significantly higher than 0.001%, it is hard to see where the growth is coming from.

Islam, considered the 'fastest growing religion', is almost certainly shrinking if you adjust for population growth.

In terms of the religions that have the most actual conversions, I would imagine that Christianity comfortably wins this at the moment, mostly from China, which is one of the few places seeing a significant uptake in religious adherence. Denominationally Protestantism is gaining the most converts and so is almost certainly the most converted to faith in the World.

The problem is that it is also near to the top of the faiths most people are leaving, as can be clearly seen in the West. If we look over the last 50 years, it is quite fanciful to believe that more people have joined Christianity than left it.

So where are all the net converts coming from to grow all Abrahamic religions beyond the population growth rate?
 
That was called the desecularization hypothesis, it was discredited beginning in the early 1970's and has been toast since the late 1990's. Students of the sociology of religion have documented the desecularization of the world extensively since then. The world is becoming more conservative and more religious. You might read the following books to acquaint yourself with this:

Jürgensmeyer, Mark. Global Rebellion: Religious Challenges to the Secular State, from Christian Militias to Al Quaeda. Berkely, CA: University of California Press, 2008.

Finke, Roger and Stark, Rodney. The Churching of America 1776-1990: Winners and Losers in our Religious Economy. New Jersey: Rutgers University Press, 1992.

Philpott, Daniel, & Shah, Timothy Samuel, & Toft, Monica Duffy. God’s Century: Resurgent Religion and Global Politics. New York: Norton & Company, 2011.

Kelley, Dean M. Why Conservative Churches are Growing: A Study in Sociology of Religion. New York:
Harper and Row, 1972.

The Desecularization of the World: Resurgent Religion and World Politics
Peter L. Berger, Editor, 2008.

and so on. The desecularization hypothesis is thoroughly disproven.


Where? Over the past 100 years, in various parts of the world, there has been a very strong shift towards liberal democracies and secular humanism. In the Western world, these are pretty much a given. But even where there has not been either approach, such as China or USSR, secular and atheist views are still found.

Because it is. We have sharpened our axes and we are chopping down god. We questioned "his kings" and removed them, and slowly we are working up the courage to question god.

I doubt this. They would be spreading like wildfires if they were. Islam only got ahead because people suddenly knew about it after 9/11. To average the numbers I got, there are 3 births per second. This means 32,000,000 new converts each and every year, with very few people leaving.

Do not forget yours also came from man.

You aren't.
 

Angel1

Angel
New isn't always better, improved, or more advanced - to say the least...

True. I agree. In the study of Theosophy, it is taught that after the upgrade by the Master or Avatar, later followers and students who understand less proceed to degrade or corrupt the innovations. But there is always advancement. 2 steps forward, then 1 step back for the necessary assimilation.

Searching for Truth is much like panning for gold. Tons of dirt, very little gold.
 

we-live-now

Active Member
One more major point which is that if there is anything at all to any of this spiritual stuff, then there absolutely has to be a path from science to find spirituality or a spirit world. Hence science will be the path to spirituality, we just don't see it yet. Science isn't advanced enough. But science will find spirituality IMO

You are RIGHT on!

And this is the exact things I have been writing about in my blog. And I am about to share some powerful things I have been sitting on for weeks and months now that I believe you will see. You think, I like that. I see this in scripture, but NOT in the words man translated and "crucified", but in his ORIGINAL untouched words.

The very "CHURCH" we see outwardly right now is actually the very "OLD covenant" spiritual Israel that HE placed into a body and it's god rules our outer man still. It will be "circumcised" away on the "8th SPIRITUAL day" which is NOT a 24 hour earthly day. IT could even be a thousand or a million years or longer.

Science and those who haven't been brainwashed by religion WILL see the TRUTH. You are VERY insightful my friend. Check out my blog as I am about to start talking about how each of his original words have precise numeric numbers (that can't be changed and never do change) and what they reveal is amazing.
 
You are RIGHT on.......

Check out my blog as I am about to start talking about how each of his original words have precise numeric numbers (that can't be changed and never do change) and what they reveal is amazing.
I'm glad someone else knows about this. It's only the next logical step that we can predict by looking at what we know from our past and present. I'm checking out your blog. Perhaps we can talk about this more in depth via PM's.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Well I'm certainly glad I made this thread. The diversity and depth of responses is amazing.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
#1. There is no evidence that people are leaving Christianity in the West.

Census data from the UK shows a decrease in Christian identity in the population and an increase in the demographic of 'no religion'. Here's the data for Scotland:

Demographics

and here's the data for England & Wales:

Summary: What does the Census tell us about religion in 2011? - ONS

There's a picture with arrows and a graph or two but the comparative data is on either side of that.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Census data from the UK shows a decrease in Christian identity in the population and an increase in the demographic of 'no religion'. Here's the data for Scotland:

Demographics

and here's the data for England & Wales:

Summary: What does the Census tell us about religion in 2011? - ONS

There's a picture with arrows and a graph or two but the comparative data is on either side of that.

I think this census data is probably lagging behind actual adherence trends too.
 
Oh undoubtedly. I'm sure this data was out of date as soon as it was published.

European Christianity is a little bit of an anomaly, but there are two problems with that data. One of them is that Europeans as a race are shrinking in population, even in Europe--while unborn Europeans are being replaced by foreigners. In addition, there is a tremendous rise in conservative Muslims there.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
European Christianity is a little bit of an anomaly, but there are two problems with that data. One of them is that Europeans as a race are shrinking in population, even in Europe--while unborn Europeans are being replaced by foreigners. In addition, there is a tremendous rise in conservative Muslims there.

I don't know if it's tremendous. There are more conservative Muslims in a few countries than there were before, but there are more non-conservative Muslims. And far more non-Muslims than either.
 
European Christianity is a little bit of an anomaly, but there are two problems with that data. One of them is that Europeans as a race are shrinking in population, even in Europe--while unborn Europeans are being replaced by foreigners. In addition, there is a tremendous rise in conservative Muslims there.

I just realized I didn't finish answering your question. There are only about 53 million people in England, which makes it a pretty tiny part of the West. Christianity is doing quite well in the West outside of Europe.
 
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