• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Which path is truly "bad"?

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Easily. Don't say the Lords name unnecessarily and without fear, Worship on the Sabbath, Don't worship idols or images of idolatry. Done?

That's your interpretation of it. Jews don't even say the proper name of their god out of fear and reverence, the different sects don't agree on which day the Sabbath is and what they can or cannot do on it and some sects see Catholics and Orthodox Christians as idolators for the use of icons and statues.

Seriously, The bible is upfront. It's those that seek to twist it with their own ideals that find violence and hatred in the bible.

The problem is that they're able to "twist" them in the first place. If it was clear and the Bible didn't contradict itself, they wouldn't be able to do that.

Ah, Again you're taking it out of context to suit your ideals. See what I mean? Paul said in the Church. That's it.

'So much for all that talk about "love" and "compassion".

Yeah, That's not Him condemning them to hell.

He is saying that they're going to hell and rhetorically wondering how they will escape it. Geez, Thana, really? :facepalm:

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to make Jesus the bad guy.
When someone says something sexist, Don't you stand up for women? Don't you condemn the sexist's judgements? Is that not what Jesus was doing? Condemning their evil deeds?

We're talking about Jesus, not me. I'm not supposed to be the "perfect" "son of god".
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
So because there are accounts of violence in the bible, The bible promotes violence? I don't understand your logic..

Yes, when a book tells you to brutally murder so and so for almost any reason we call that promoting violence. This isn't even logic, it is a definition.

Promote | Define Promote at Dictionary.com

It's not contradicting, You're talking about two different things. A spiritual war (meaning, Within ourselves), And turning the other cheek, Which is concerning flesh (the desire to be angry, to lash out)

So Jesus needs a sword... for internal warfare? There anti-Christ won't be physical? You seem all sorts of mixed up here.

Ho hum.. Seriously if you just want to bash Christianity then I'm not interested. If you want to have a debate, Then keep it about subjects we can debate. Christianity being akin to depression is just hogwash and personal opinion.

Hogwash? Actually Christianity fits enough criteria of major depression where if you came into my office and told me how you felt (omitting your religion) it would be my duty to try and at least try and treat for depression.
 

Thana

Lady
That's your interpretation of it. Jews don't even say the proper name of their god out of fear and reverence, the different sects don't agree on which day the Sabbath is and what they can or cannot do on it and some sects see Catholics and Orthodox Christians as idolators for the use of icons and statues.

So? I don't understand what you're driving at. If you want to follow this logic.. Then everything can be said to be one's interpretation.

The problem is that they're able to "twist" them in the first place. If it was clear and the Bible didn't contradict itself, they wouldn't be able to do that.

I'll bring up my analogy again, Because The Law says you have the right to bear arms, And you kill bears and take their arms, Is it the fault of the Law? Should we now abolish the Law because it can be interpretated as allowing the killing and taking of bear arms?


'So much for all that talk about "love" and "compassion".

How does that take away love and compassion?


He is saying that they're going to hell and rhetorically wondering how they will escape it. Geez, Thana, really? :facepalm:

No..
The bible says there are people going to hell. It's not vague or misleading about that.
He's trying to get them to repent. He's not condemning them.

We're talking about Jesus, not me. I'm not supposed to be the "perfect" "son of god".

So you're saying Jesus should not have said anything? He should have just let those guys go on being evil, He shouldn't rebuke anyone? I mean Jeez...
 

Thana

Lady
Yes, when a book tells you to brutally murder so and so for almost any reason we call that promoting violence. This isn't even logic, it is a definition.

The bible told those people (In that culture), And with very strict criteria. No one kills people for adultery or anything of the like now. It was not promoting violence, It was recounting the violence done then, And what was told to the people then.

So Jesus needs a sword... for internal warfare? There anti-Christ won't be physical? You seem all sorts of mixed up here.

Err yeah, Jesus is a spiritual being, So is the Anti-Christ.

Hogwash? Actually Christianity fits enough criteria of major depression where if you came into my office and told me how you felt (omitting your religion) it would be my duty to try and at least try and treat for depression.

As I said, That's your opinion.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
So? I don't understand what you're driving at. If you want to follow this logic.. Then everything can be said to be one's interpretation.

My point is that it's not as clear as you like to think! :facepalm:

I'll bring up my analogy again, Because The Law says you have the right to bear arms, And you kill bears and take their arms, Is it the fault of the Law? Should we now abolish the Law because it can be interpretated as allowing the killing and taking of bear arms?
See above. :facepalm:

How does that take away love and compassion?
Being a sexist dick is not having love and compassion.


No..
The bible says there are people going to hell. It's not vague or misleading about that.
He's trying to get them to repent. He's not condemning them.

Telling a person they're going to hell is a form of condemnation. He's the one who introduced the idea of hell to the Bible in the first place.

So you're saying Jesus should not have said anything? He should have just let those guys go on being evil, He shouldn't rebuke anyone? I mean Jeez...

My point is that he was being insulting. You are the one who decided to take one sentence and argue it to death. I'm prepared to move on since this is not going to go anywhere.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
The bible told those people (In that culture), And with very strict criteria. No one kills people for adultery or anything of the like now. It was not promoting violence, It was recounting the violence done then, And what was told to the people then.

Ah so we can throw out the old texts then. So where's your leg to stand on?

Err yeah, Jesus is a spiritual being, So is the Anti-Christ.

Ah, I was under the impression that much of the myth of Christ required a very physical existence. Must be difficult to crucify a non-physical entity - cudos to the Romans.

As I said, That's your opinion.

Which is great, but we are in big-boy/girl land. You don't get to simply say that something is an opinion and run away unless someone makes an unsupported claim. Lucky for me I provided quite a nice summary of how Christianity does, in fact (look into fact vs opinion) resemble depression.
 

Thana

Lady
My point is that it's not as clear as you like to think! :facepalm:

It is though, It's just some people interpret it to suit their ideals! A violent person will find violence in the bible. You know I knew one woman who loved a married man and somehow interpreted scripture in the bible that she believed meant she could lust after Him!

Being a sexist dick is not having love and compassion.

He wasn't sexist. Women back then had very little education, So you can understand why He felt that they shouldn't interrupt teachings. His passages were meant to mean that it was the responsibility of the man to learn all he could, Then pass that knowledge onto His wife. Women are in church now, Atleast, Protestant churches and we're all happy and content with this.

Telling a person they're going to hell is a form of condemnation. He's the one who introduced the idea of hell to the Bible in the first place.

No.. Jews have Hell.
Jesus introduced eternal Hell.

My point is that he was being insulting. You are the one who decided to take one sentence and argue it to death. I'm prepared to move on since this is not going to go anywhere.

Sure we can move on.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
He wasn't sexist. Women back then had very little education, So you can understand why He felt that they shouldn't interrupt teachings. His passages were meant to mean that it was the responsibility of the man to learn all he could, Then pass that knowledge onto His wife. Women are in church now, Atleast, Protestant churches and we're all happy and content with this.

That would make sense but...he could've said that women are to be educated as men are and that after they are educated, they may hold the same positions as men. It's not as if educated women were completely unheard of. But instead, Paul says that women are to be quiet and to be submissive and uses Eve's sin as the reason why.
 

Thana

Lady
Ah so we can throw out the old texts then. So where's your leg to stand on?

I never said that mate.

Ah, I was under the impression that much of the myth of Christ required a very physical existence. Must be difficult to crucify a non-physical entity - cudos to the Romans.

He was a man. He is not a man anymore. I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend.

Which is great, but we are in big-boy/girl land. You don't get to simply say that something is an opinion and run away unless someone makes an unsupported claim. Lucky for me I provided quite a nice summary of how Christianity does, in fact (look into fact vs opinion) resemble depression.

Fine I'll address it.






Feelings of sadness, emptiness or unhappiness - This is the most common reason I hear people talk about loving Christianity. Without it there is just emptiness and darkness, however the concept of God fills a that gap. The problem is that the belief is actually what causes that gap. Nobody sees the gap except in hindsight because they are taught about the gap.

This is untrue.
You're trying to say that there is never a gap, Which is crap. People get depressed without and with religion. They feel they have gaps in their lives, And then they move on. Just because they move on doesn't mean there was never a gap.

Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters - irritability even over small matters, such as how others live their lives, people pointing out contradictions, etc. Even in this thread members have gotten flustered to the point where the seem to lose track of even their own previous comments.

Well, We're people. We get upset. Big deal? So does everyone.

Loss of interest or pleasure in normal activities, such as sex - Um, every sin?

Nope. Christians have healthy and satisfying sex lives. And they desire sex just as much as the next person.

Tiredness and lack of energy, so that even small tasks take extra effort - this point is kind of the opposite. I've known so many religious people who describe services are their recharge for the week. Again, the problem is that they see it this way because of the religion.

Okay now we're just getting silly.

Anxiety, agitation or restlessness — for example, excessive worrying, pacing, hand-wringing or an inability to sit still - the entire religion is based around carrying the sins of others, worrying about the afterlife, and being concerned with what others are up to.

No. We're not carrying the sins of others, We're forgiven. We don't worry about the afterlife, We know where we're going. And we don't mind if others want to sin, That's their responsibility.

Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or blaming yourself for things that are not your responsibility - This needs absolutely no explanation.

Actually it does. I don't feel guilt or fixate on my past or blame myself for others problems?

Frequent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide - suicide, no. This is because the punishment for suicide is rejection from heaven, the entire point of the religion. However, note that thoughts of death need not be about killing oneself. Just thinking about death constantly can be a sign of depression, and in these "Aeon of Osiris" religion there is a massive obsession with death.

Some people do, Some people don't. The difference is we see death as a good thing. We're not worried about it.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
We're forgiven. We don't worry about the afterlife, We know where we're going. And we don't mind if others want to sin, That's their responsibility.

That is not what Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach. You must confess your sins to a priest regularly and your salvation is not assured like the Protestants like to think (there's none of that "once saved, always saved" stuff or at least it is understood in a very different way). You must die in a state of grace, making sure that all mortal sins are confessed with a truly contrite heart. Otherwise you may go to hell or, if you're lucky, go to purgatory.
 

Thana

Lady
That is not what Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach. You must confess your sins to a priest regularly and your salvation is not assured like the Protestants like to think (there's none of that "once saved, always saved" stuff or at least it is understood in a very different way). You must die in a state of grace, making sure that all mortal sins are confessed with a truly contrite heart. Otherwise you may go to hell or, if you're lucky, go to purgatory.

Yeah I don't particuarly like Catholicism.. Makes me mad.
 

Thana

Lady
Well at least we now officially know you're an invalid source of information. Beside rabbinical Judaism (where the max time is still only 1 year) Gehenna is actually a physical location. Thanks for playing though!

Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's an interpretation. All the Jews that I have spoken to believe in a literal hell that they go to for a short time until their souls are purified.

"In Jewish, Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna#cite_note-2
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
That's an interpretation. All the Jews that I have spoken to believe in a literal hell that they go to for a short time until their souls are purified.

1. Hell is eternal.
2. You're talking to some strange Jews. But on the other hand most older Jews still say we built the pyramids, so learn to do research.

As for now, there's nothing Saint_Frank and I could possibly learn from you.
 

Thana

Lady
1. Hell is eternal.
2. You're talking to some strange Jews. But on the other hand most older Jews still say we built the pyramids, so learn to do research.

As for now, there's nothing Saint_Frank and I could possibly learn from you.

Well, Alrighty then. A bit arrogant, But if you want to bow out then that's cool just say so.
 
Top