Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[Rick O'Shez]

What can we rule out?

We can't rule anything out, the universe is vast and strange and there is still much to discover, and undoubtedly there are possibilities we haven't even thought of yet. But we certainly can't rule God in, that's more to do with wishful thinking than reality.

 

[Unification]

Self created. /in my belief/.


Some people think that G-d was not always existent, but was somehow created after the universe, if your interested.

I understand that, seems to make more sense to me that if anything, "God" went from non-being to being and "God" is emergent, as time is likely emergent, and "God" as immanence. Where "God" can only be found within the human "being." It's a mutual dependence. The human and the being.

What says you about the self-creation?

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey, how can I use that information practically? Thanks.

There is no restriction in using it.
Regards

 

[God lover]

We can't rule anything out, the universe is vast and strange and there is still much to discover, and undoubtedly there are possibilities we haven't even thought of yet. But we certainly can't rule God in, that's more to do with wishful thinking than reality.

Your bias is apposed to my bias

 

[prometheus11]

I'm not asking about restrictions, am I?

Why the dodge?

Tell me how to get a practical purpose from that knowledge. You can do it.

Go.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm not asking about restrictions, am I?
Why the dodge?
Tell me how to get a practical purpose from that knowledge. You can do it.
Go.

What do you understand from the word "practical", your own understanding not from a lexicon? Please
Regards

 

[prometheus11]

I had thought it was obvious. What can I do, or do faster, or better with that knowledge?

 

[prometheus11]

What can I do, or do faster, or better with that knowledge?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I understand that, seems to make more sense to me that if anything, "God" went from non-being to being and "God" is emergent, as time is likely emergent, and "God" as immanence. Where "God" can only be found within the human "being." It's a mutual dependence. The human and the being.
What says you about the self-creation?

According to Scripture God had No beginning, No start - Psalms 90:2
Eternity is in our hearts because for each day we can count we can count a next day both forwards and backwards.
God is also Creator - Revelation 4:11 - meaning No one can create The Creator.
Created Adam on the other hand, went from non-being, or non-life, to life, and fallen Adam returned to non-being, or non-life.
Neither God nor Adam created themselves.
God has a specific location or dwelling according to 1 Kings 8:27; 1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:49
Not the physical/material heavens, but a realm independent of the material universe(s) - Deuteronomy 26:15
Jesus too, told us where his God is located when Jesus said Our Father who art in: heaven

 

[leibowde84]

There is no restriction in using it.
Regards

This is merely dodging his question. How can he use it practically?

 

[cambridge79]

I think the very concept of existence should be explored starting from your question. I dont think we have to decide if something existed of nothing existed but what actually means existence before the big bang. The big bang created also space and time as we know it, and existence requires space and time to be defined

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think the very concept of existence should be explored starting from your question. I dont think we have to decide if something existed of nothing existed but what actually means existence before the big bang. The big bang created also space and time as we know it, and existence requires space and time to be defined

So if I understand you correctly, you want to understand what the existence was before the big bang using the concepts of space and time?

 

[cambridge79]

So if I understand you correctly, you want to understand what the existence was before the big bang using the concepts of space and time?

no, what i say is that the way we understand and define the concept of "existence" is related to space and time. Something exists because is THERE in a certain MOMENT.
what would mean "to exists" when there's not a THERE and there's no time, at least in the way we know them?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

no, what i say is that the way we understand and define the concept of "existence" is related to space and time. Something exists because is THERE in a certain MOMENT.
what would mean "to exists" when there's not a THERE and there's no time, at least in the way we know them?

Ok.....so if there was not a THERE and no time , why did the THERE there now replace the 'not a THERE' and no time?

 

[cambridge79]

Ok.....so if there was not a THERE and no time , why did the THERE there now replace the 'not a THERE' and no time?

I don't think I actually understand your question here.
Btw I didn't say there wasn't a there and no time before the big bang. I say that as far as I know we re unable to explore beyond that point. I personally dont think the big bang is the beginning of everything. I think its just the beginning of what we call the universe, but who knows what was there before our universe begins, or if theres something outside it. But this is purely a personal speculation

And I dont know if the question you ask should be put in the why form.

Why somehow imply a meaning. I dont think there s a meaning.
Its like asking why a rock falls down a mountain. There's no will behind that that's just the laws of physics at work. In the end its a how and there s no why

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't think I actually understand your question here.
Btw I didn't say there wasn't a there and no time before the big bang. I say that as far as I know we re unable to explore beyond that point. I personally dont think the big bang is the beginning of everything. But this is purely a personal speculation.

And I dont know if the question you ask should be put in the why form.

Why somehow imply a meaning. I dont think there s a meaning.
Its like asking why a rock falls down a mountain. There's no will behind that that's just the laws of physics at work. In the end its a how and there s no why

Ok...I'm with you...I thought you were saying there was non-existence before the big bang...no space..no time....and all that exists came from nowhere... The reason I asked why...is because if I ask how....the big bang proponent will say no one knows how it went from non-existence to existence at the start of inflation...basically one is not supposed to ask that question and just accept that the theory with red shift and all supports the idea of a big bang. So if you were one of those, when I asked 'why; instead of how, it was to see if what sort of answer I would get...like...no one knows why... But I do not accept there is an effect...universal existence...without a cause...unless it the one that I accept....there was no cause because there was no beginning.....eternity means just that...it does not have a start....only finite things have beginnings and endings....and for these we can to some degree understand the cause and effect process...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok...I'm with you...I thought you were saying there was non-existence before the big bang...no space..no time....and all that exists came from nowhere... The reason I asked why...is because if I ask how....the big bang proponent will say no one knows how it went from non-existence to existence at the start of inflation...basically one is not supposed to ask that question and just accept that the theory with red shift and all supports the idea of a big bang. So if you were one of those, when I asked 'why; instead of how, it was to see if what sort of answer I would get...like...no one knows why... But I do not accept there is an effect...universal existence...without a cause...unless it the one that I accept....there was no cause because there was no beginning.....eternity means just that...it does not have a start....only finite things have beginnings and endings....and for these we can to some degree understand the cause and effect process...

Interesting that you mention the ' cause and effect ' process because that is a biblical concept - Galatians 6:7. The law of cause and effect was set in motion by our Creator.
Our Creator - Psalms 90:2 - has No beginning / No start so there was No non-existence, but through our Creator's existence and through His dynamic energy ( strength and power ) Isaiah 40:26 - the tangible material realm came into existence after the spirit invisible realm. So, there was a beginning for creation, Not from No where but due to the un-created Creator's power and strength ( energy )- Psalms 104:30, and according to Isaiah 45:18 God formed Earth to be inhabited. Inhabited forever - Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think we have to decide if something existed of nothing existed but what actually means existence before the big bang. The big bang created also space and time as we know it, and existence requires space and time to be defined

' existence before the Big Bang ' -> Psalms 90:2.
So, ' what actually means existence before the Big Bang ' is the existence of our Creator. No start, No beginning but always existed full of power and strength ( energy )- Isaiah 40:26
We can have the concept of eternity in our hearts because for each day we can think of we can think of a next day counting both forwards and backwards forever and ever.

 

[Milton Platt]

There is something. This something was caused by a previous something. That something was caused by a previous something. And so so. There was never not something.

As far as we know.......and we probably will never really know. But yes, it seems that would be so. Our universe did have a beginning. But that should not be equated to matter/energy having a beginning.

 

[Milton Platt]

Interesting that you mention the ' cause and effect ' process because that is a biblical concept - Galatians 6:7. The law of cause and effect was set in motion by our Creator.
Our Creator - Psalms 90:2 - has No beginning / No start so there was No non-existence, but through our Creator's existence and through His dynamic energy ( strength and power ) Isaiah 40:26 - the tangible material realm came into existence after the spirit invisible realm. So, there was a beginning for creation, Not from No where but due to the un-created Creator's power and strength ( energy )- Psalms 104:30, and according to Isaiah 45:18 God formed Earth to be inhabited. Inhabited forever - Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5

You need to demonstrate his existence before you start telling us how he created everything. You realize that special pleading for your creator doesn't cut it? If we can assume he/it had no beginning, then we can assume matter/energy had no beginning just as easily and dispense with the god part. I won't even go into the absurdity of trying to argue a point by using bible quotes.