WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

There is a very important factor that is being ignored: Christians are not under the OT law. This applies to keeping the Sabbath.
Having entered God's rest, there is no need for any further mandated rest.

You are quite wrong here.. I am happy to discuss Hebrews 4 in detail. It disagrees with you. Before we do that thought can you please tell me what the New covenant is? (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12)

JESUS said
* Think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophet - Matthew 5:17
* Jesus magnified the law - Matthew 5:17-28
* The law will now pass away until heaven and earth pass away - Matthew 5:18
* Whoever will break the least of these commandments and teach men so will be the least in God's kingdom (the least are those who do not go there see 1 John 2:3-4)
* Whoever obeys and teaches the law will be called great in God's kingdom - Matthew 5:19
* Jesus taught that fail and obedience to Gods' law is required to receive eternal life - Matthew 19:17-21; John 3:36.
* Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
* Jesus taught that the two great commandments of love are not separate from obeying Gods' law - Matthew 22:36-40
* Jesus taught that if we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not worshiping God (Matt 15:3-9)
* Jesus says if we commit sin (breaking Gods law - 1 John 3:4) we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin - John 8:32-36
* Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love - John 14:15; 15:10
* If we love God we will obey His commandments and abide in His love - John 14:15; John 15:10

PAUL said
* Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4:1-9.
* Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
* Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
* Paul says faith is not separate from obedience to God's law - Romans 3:31
* Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
* Paul teaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" and Gods new covenant promise - Heb 8:7-11
* Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine - 2 Timothy 3:16
* AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
* Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" and is binding on all Christians. - Ephesians 6:1-2
* Paul tells us that God's Law (10 commandments) is holy, just and good - Romans 7:12
* God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is - Romans 3:20; 7:7
* The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death - Romans 6:23
* If we break God's Law we dishonor God - Romans 2:23
* If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God - Romans 3:19
* We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us - Romans 3:31
* If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law - Romans 6:1-7
* We should not break God's Law if we are under grace - Romans 6:15
* We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts - Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2
* It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus - Galatians 3:24
* God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness - Romans 6:22
* We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith - Romans 2:4-13
* God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word - Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Hebrews 8:9-10
* If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements - Hebrews 10:26-27

JOHN said

* John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
* If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
* We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
* Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
* Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
* If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
* John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
* If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
* If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
* It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
* It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
* God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Revelation 14:12; 22:14)

JAMES said

* James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law - James 2:8
* If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law - James 2:9-11
* James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom - James 2:12)
* The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment - James 2:12
* If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith - James 2:16-26

PETER said

* Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law - 1 Peter 1:2
* We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days - 1 Peter 1:5
* We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy - 1 Peter 1:13-16
* Jesus is your example who did no sin - 1 Peter 2:21-22
* Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh - 1 Peter 4:1-3
* Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved - 1 Peter 4:17
* God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4
* The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah - 2 Peter 2:6
* If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost - 2 Peter 2:20-22
* God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God 2 Peter 3:5-14

JESUS AND THE APOSTLES ALL TAUGHT AND OBEYED THE SABBATH

* It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
* Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind - Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27
* Jesus is Lord (creator) and owner of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28
* If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest - Hebrews 4
* It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all - James 2:8-12
* Breaking it is sin - 1 John 3:4
* God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded - Revelation 14:12; 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20
* Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22
* The Apostle and disciples all kept the Sabbath after the death and resurrection of Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10
* Jesus taught that God's people would be still keeping the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection - Matthew 24:20; Mark 13:18.

CONCLUSION: Jesus and all the apostles taught and obeyed Gods 10 commandments from a new heart that loves. The bible does not teach anywhere in the old or new covenant scriptures that Gods 10 commandments are abolished. This doctrine of lawlessness is a teaching of the devil - **Beware!**

 

[Kathryn]

Sure it is. You have been listening to lies from Sunday school.

Nope. Passage, please. And I haven't been to Sunday school for decades, for the record.

Notice I said "passage," not just verse, please. Thanks.

Oh, one other thing - I believe the bible is all true but not all truth. I believe there is truth outside of the bible, for instance.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. Passage, please. And I haven't been to Sunday school for decades, for the record.

Notice I said "passage," not just verse, please. Thanks.

Yep.... so tell me please if Gods Word says in Ephesians 2:8 that we are saved by Gods grace that we receive through faith and Romans 10:17 tells us that this saving faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Words of God how can you be saved and receive Gods salvation if you do not believe what Gods Word says? Think it through. You cannot. Therefore scripture is the only rule of faith. If you do not believe me then likewise show me a single scripture that teaches that we are saved by faith and something else? - Thanks.

PS. If you believe that the bible is all true but is not all truth then you do not believe in the bible.

 

[Kathryn]

Yep.... so tell me please if Gods Word says in Ephesians 2:8 that we are saved by Gods grace that we receive through faith and Romans 10:17 tells us that this saving faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Words of God how can you be saved and receive Gods salvation if you do not believe in what Gods Word says? Think it through. You cannot. Therefore scripture is the only rule of faith. If you do not believe me then likewise show me a single scripture that teaches that we are saved by faith and something else?

Sorry, I don't believe that scripture is the only rule of faith. You can start with 2 Thessalonians 2:15 if you like.

And I absolutely do believe the bible is all true but not all truth. For instance, and this may sound ridiculous, but can you show me where in the bible it states that grass is green and the sky is mostly blue during summer days?

I absolutely do believe the bible is all true., I just do not believe it contains all the truth in the world. For instance, was any word of Jesus' unimportant or unnecessary? And yet we are told IN THE BIBLE, that many many words of Jesus' were not recorded.

 

[jimb]

For starters, god is a fictional creation, invented by humans. Secondly if you are saying you believe what day of the calendar you choose over another is a salvation issue, according to the Bible, you have understood nothing about the Christian religion and you need to go back to the most basic ideas. If you want to understand it, that is.

You couldn't be more wrong! Simply because you are unaware of the existence of God does NOT mean that He doesn't exist. Some of us know that He exists, because He has made Himself known to us personally.

Why do you claim to understand the Christian religion when you don't even believe that God exists? That is a JOKE!

 

[Kathryn]

Oh, here's another thing - you are making a common mistake when you confuse faith with scripture. They are two totally different things.

 

[Tomef]

everyone of those scriptures mentioned the Sabbath that you asked for to which I responded..

What I asked you, several times, as you know, is to reference a scripture in the NT that clearly states the sabbath should be held on a particular day. You have continued to avoid that question - so, where is the scripture that tells Christians the must respect the Sabbath by having one particular day of the week as a kind of holy day, which, according to the OT, would mean doing no work at all (like preaching, church activities etc)?

Again:

Which NT passage tells Christians they must treat every Saturday as a sabbath day?

And:

Where in the NT is this treated as a salvation issue?

And again:

Why do you insist that this: Therefore do not let anyone judge you:

Applies to the first three items in the list:

by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration

But not the final part of the same list?

or a Sabbath day.

It makes no sense; what you are pushing is a blatantly obvious removal of words from their transparently obvious context in order to push a contrived doctrine. It couldn’t be any clearer. Whether you translate it as a sabbath day or sabbath days makes no difference at all to the meaning.

 

[Tomef]

Why do you claim to understand the Christian religion when you don't even believe that God exists?

The same way anyone can study and understand any religion they don’t believe in.

 

[Tomef]

I was wondering why you were finding it so hard to understand plain scripture.

Of the two of us it’s not me that cannot understand the obvious meaning. You are lost in the your dogma; this is what lost actually means, the inability to think beyond fixed ideas you have accepted despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[YoursTrue]

Posting scripture in disagreement with you is not deflecting. It is sharing scripture that is in disagreement with you.

As posted earlier to you and proven from the scriptures, it is not hollow to believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to the scriptures this is the very definition of what genuine saving faith is (Ephesians 2:8-9; James 2:15-26). Not believing and not obeying what Gods Word says is the very definitions of what sin is (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23; John 3:36 and Matthew 7:21-23). James also calling this the dead faith of devils (James 2:15-26). So it is not obsession to believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the bibles definition of genuine saving faith without which it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). What is hollow is to think you have faith if you do not do what Gods word asks you to do and to think you are in a saved state before God.

Indeed. So does this say Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? - Nope. According to James breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments in sin right? (James 2:10-11) and we know according to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin are not in a saved state before God (see Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4). Jesus warns us in Matthew 15:3-9 that all those who follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God are not worshiping God. Begs the question who should we be following; God or man? We have all been taught lies at Sunday school.

There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest as a replacement for Gods Sabbath commandment in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition leading many to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care.

So do you think God takes one day a week off every week?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

When the prophecies as spoken of in the Bible are fulfilled, you (we) will know beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's like reading about a foreign country or actually going there.

The messianic prophecies have in fact NOT been fulfilled.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not really I just provide what the scriptures say.

False.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

God blessed the Sabbath day and made the Sabbath day a holy day of rest for all mankind.....

False. There is absolutely NOTHING in Genesis 2:1-3 that commands anyone rest. NOTHING. It states that *God* rested. It does not enjoin on anyone else to do likewise.

MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath:[28], so that the Son of man is LORD OF THE SABBATH (creator).

How is Mark before Sinai? Sheesh. You really don't know how to do this, do you.

Not really there are many scriptures in Genesis showing Gods people already knew Torah through the spoken Words of God.

Yet you haven't been able to show me a single one.

You were making the assumption that they did not despite clear evidence in Genesis 26:5 where God said about Abraham "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws (torah).

Again, you have been totally unable to document WHICH laws that refers to. You are ASSUMING that it includes teh Sabbath, but can offer NO EVIDENCE that any command was given prior to the manna incident.

Not really

Yes really.

. So we will agree to disagree.

Oh, indeed. This is not personal for me. I'm actually quite fine with others disagreeing with me. And honestly, if keeping the sabbath brings you closer to God, go for it. I just don't think it is obligatory for you in the way that it is for me.

 

[YoursTrue]

The messianic prophecies have in fact NOT been fulfilled.

I realize that's what you and others believe.

 

[YoursTrue]

False. There is absolutely NOTHING in Genesis 2:1-3 that commands anyone rest. NOTHING. It states that *God* rested. It does not enjoin on anyone else to do likewise.

How is Mark before Sinai? Sheesh. You really don't know how to do this, do you.

Yet you haven't been able to show me a single one.

Again, you have been totally unable to document WHICH laws that refers to. You are ASSUMING that it includes teh Sabbath, but can offer NO EVIDENCE that any command was given prior to the manna incident.

Yes really.

Oh, indeed. This is not personal for me. I'm actually quite fine with others disagreeing with me. And honestly, if keeping the sabbath brings you closer to God, go for it. I just don't think it is obligatory for you in the way that it is for me.

How did God rest, by not taking an elevator unless it was an emergency? Oh no, there were no elevators back in those days, hmm? Does God rest once a week?

 

[YoursTrue]

False. There is absolutely NOTHING in Genesis 2:1-3 that commands anyone rest. NOTHING. It states that *God* rested. It does not enjoin on anyone else to do likewise.

I believe that is true. So how do you believe or think God rested on that day? What do your sages teach?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How did God rest, by not taking an elevator unless it was an emergency? Oh no, there were no elevators back in those days, hmm? Does God rest once a week?

I'm not sure what point you think your rhetorical questions make.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe that is true. So how do you believe or think God rested on that day? What do your sages teach?

I think it is clearly allegorical, and not literal. IOW, figurative, poetic language, not meant to be taken literally. God does not get tired, and is not in need of resting.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think it is clearly allegorical, and not literal. IOW, figurative, poetic language, not meant to be taken literally. God does not get tired, and is not in need of resting.

So then what others say can also be poetical, etc. No discussion in essence. Thanks again. And about God not getting tired, that also is mythical, right?

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure what point you think your rhetorical questions make.

really? You don't know? ok, have a good day...and take care ...