metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And that is exactly the point I was making.
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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
You did not make any points. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living, including Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment. The 613 are not. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness which is what you are promoting. That is a doctrine of devils and the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4).
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I assume you are referring to the "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-34, when the Law would be written in the hearts of the house of Israel, and the house of Judah, and no one would "teach" "know the LORD", for they shall all know Me". Well, that has not happened, and will not happen until Judah and Israel/Ephraim have been reunited on the land given to Jacob, under "My Servant" David. (Ezekiel 34 & 36 & 37). At that time the combined Israel/Ephraim, and Judah will "walk in My statutes", and "observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Even the nations/Gentiles, who survive the "day of the LORD"/Har-Magedon/the Great Tribulation, will keep the feast of Booths every year. (Zechariah 14:16).
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Yes the New Covenant has happened. Did you miss reading about it in the new testament?
Are you talking about the false gospel of grace, the "message" of the "enemy" (Mt 13:25), per the false prophet Paul? It certainly does not correspond to the description with respect to Ezekiel 36 & 37 & Jeremiah 31:33-34, whereas no one with have to teach their neighbor about the LORD, and that there will be a covenant of eternal peace with the combined houses of Israel and Judah, and they will both reside in the land given to Jacob, and they will be given a "new heart" and a "new spirit" (Ez 36:26), and have their sins washed away, and live under the leadership of David. I don't know, but it appears that you have built your "house"/church on a foundation of sand (Mt 7:24-28). This is not completed until the son of man returns "immediately" after the "tribulation" when the "stars fall from the sky" (Mt 24:29-30).
22and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. 23“They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.
24“My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25“They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. 26“I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27“My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28“And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Please forgive me but I do not believe in the nonsense you posted above about the Apostles Paul being a false prophet. Now you have made these false claims many times now despite me asking you to prove your claims that Apostle Paul being a false prophet. If you cannot prove what you say then why say it? You are not making these statements against Paul the Apostle but against God whose words you choose to deny by twisting scripture to your own demise. Look at your post? There is not a single scripture you posted that supports anything you have said. Does that now worry you? It should.
According to "Scripture", if anyone who claims to speak for God, makes a false prophecy, they are a false prophet. You claim, according to what Paul wrote, that Paul speaks for God, and his words are "scripture". Paul said, "we shall not all sleep/die". According to "Scripture", "everybody dies for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). Which is to say, Paul is dead, everyone he talked to his dead, and everyone else is going to die. Paul is a false prophet. Yeshua says to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and you uphold the leaven (hypocrisy) of the Pharisee of Pharisees. The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:33-34 is accompanied by the fact that no one will have to teach to their neighbor "know the LORD" for they will all know the LORD. Well, I don't think everyone knows the LORD, for you apparently think that I don't know the LORD, or His Word. The people don't even know, nor understand (Isaiah 6:9 & Mt 13:11-14) what the "kingdom of heaven" even is (Daniel 12:10), because of their wickedness/lawlessness. The darkness, the "message" of the "enemy"/"devil"/"evil one" (Mt 13:25 & 38-39), the message of lawlessness, Paul's gospel of grace/cross, they accept, but the message of the kingdom, well, that they don't understand (Daniel 12:10). The "message" of the "son of man", righteousness, states that the "message" of the "devil" will be planted next to the "good" seed. It is planted in the same field/book (NT). (Mt 13:11-50) The "tare" seed produces lawlessness/wickedness, whereas the "good" seed (wheat seed) produces righteousness. The tares are separated from the wheat at the "end of the age", and the tares are gathered "first" and then thrown into the "furnace of fire". (Mt 13:30) Not that you would look at the message of the son of man, but I have made it easy for you, by printing it below.
Matthew 13:25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left.
Matthew 13:13“Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14“In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Daniel 12:10 Many will be purged, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
Deuteronomy 18:22
In the narrow sense, a false prophet is a self-proclaimed prophet of God who gives a prophecy that turns out to be false: "When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him"
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
You do err not understanding the scriptures here. Now which scripture did you provide that teaches Paul the Apostle is a false teacher? - Nothing. It is your understanding of the scriptures that is the problem not the writings of the Apostle you claim not to believe. All you are showing in your posts here is that you do not know Gods Word and you twist scripture to cause you not to believe Gods Word. Sorry I do not believe you. You just proved my point. You cannot prove what you say and teach and what you believe the scripture from Paul are saying are in error. It is you that is in error but you cannot see this or hear this. The word of God in Isaiah 6:9-10 is fulfilled in your own ears but you do not see or hear so lets agree to disagree.
Isaiah 6:9-10 is noted with respect to Matthew 13:11-15, and is about the "kingdom of heaven", the gospel of Yeshua, the "message" of the "son of man" (Mt 13:24-25), whereas the "message" of the "enemy", the message of Paul, the false prophet (Mt 7:15), is accepted and followed by the "many" (Mt 7:12) is the message of lawlessness, the gospel of grace/cross. You call Paul "the Apostle", whereas Paul is the lone person saying that he is an apostle, which according to Yeshua, makes that statement "not true". (John 5:31) The writings of the unknown author of 2 Peter, calls Paul a brother, as in a brother of Judas Isariot and Peter, as they are both mentioned in Zechariah 11, whereas Peter is the "worthless shepherd" taken together with Paul (Zech 11:7-10) to "pasture the flock (Christian church) to slaughter/destruction" (Mt 7:12-15). The canon of your "scripture" comes from the daughter of Babylon, and that "house"/church, is about to "fall". (Mt 7:24-27). Your total perspective is built on a foundation of sand.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Please forgive me but I do not believe your nonsense here. Did you notice there is not a single scripture you posted that supports your claim that Paul is a false apostle? Again from what I see it is your interpretation of these scriptures where the error is. The Apostle Paul does not teach lawlessness.
Paul's gospel of grace/cross
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
With respect to the kingdom of God, whereas David will be king over the unified Israel, living on the land given to Jacob/Israel, they will be given a new heart and spirit and keep "My ordinances".(Ez 37:24 & 36:26-27 & Jeremiah 31:31-34) Don't forget that Paul said no one was to judge you concerning eating sacrifices to idols, and sabbaths. Well, sorry to say, but after the "day of the LORD", any surviving of the nations/Gentiles, will have to keep the feast of Booths (God's ordinance) in Jerusalem every year, or suffer no rainfall (Zechariah 14:16). Out of sight of the apostles, Paul taught against circumcision which came from Abraham, whose name means father of nations/Gentiles, as prophesized in Zechariah 11 :10.Ezekiel 37:24 “And My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Please forgive me but I do not believe you and find your post claims quite bizarre trying to twist scripture to try and support a claim that the Apostle Paul is a false prophet. Have you ever considered that perhaps your interpretation of what the Apostle Paul is trying to say might be in error? We are warned in the scriptures that some things are hard to understand and unstable people twist his writings to their own destruction.
Now tell me exactly, what scripture did you post here to proves that the Apostle Paul here is a false prophet? - Nothing. You post similar posts despite me asking you many time to prove to me that the Apostle Paul is a false prophet. Also you might want to consider that King David cannot be the promised Messiah because he is Dead. If you do not believe Jesus is Gods promised Messiah you are still lost in your sins and unbelief according to the scriptures, (John 8:24; John 3:36).
You seem to be myopic in your reading. John 8:31-34 reads, "If you abide in my words then you are truly disciples of mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.... everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin." With respect to John 3:36, it says: "he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him".
1 John 3:4 New King James Version
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
You seem to abide in the words of Paul, the guy who told his followers "we shall not all sleep", whereas they all slept, and you depend on some unknown writer of 2 Peter 3, who espouses to be the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, Peter. If you read Matthew 1, it endeavors to prove that Yeshua is the seed of David. Yeshua said he was coming back, as the son of man (Mt 24), and he surely hasn't at this time fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34, nor did he fulfill Ezekiel 34, or 36 or 37 or Zechariah 14 or Matthew 24:29-31, as there is no covenant of peace with Israel, no king ruling the survivors of the nations/Gentiles from Jerusalem, whereas the Gentiles come to Jerusalem every year to worship the king on the feast of Booths. There is no king, the "Word of God" (Rev 19:13) ruling the nations with a rod of iron (Revelations 19:15). With respect to Psalms 110:1, the Lord is still sitting at the right hand of God. As for being 'lost in one's sins, well one must transgress the law, bear the "plagues" of "her"(daughters of Babylon)(Rev 18:4), and not have someone righteous to pray for them (James 5;16) for their healing, but instead plead to the beast Obama (Obama Care) to heal them. The fact that you are going to die (Jeremiah 31:30), and live in your sins/sickness, is a witness against your false beliefs. But then again, each to his own. You worship the cross, as did Constantine, after his battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 A.D., and you have more than one god, all in line with the leadership and decrees of the beast with two horns like a lamb, the Roman emperor Constantine and his Roman church. Your foundation of sand will not keep your "house"/church afloat (Mt 7:24-27).
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Look your name calling does not mean anything to me. It only show someone unable to support their claims and views when challenged. You either have scripture to support your views or you do not. You post scripture but there is no scripture that you have posted anywhere in this thread that supports your accusations that the Apostles Paul is a false prophet. I suggest you heed the words and scriptures of the Apostle Peter here...
- 2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
Your problem is that the consensus among critical bible scholars is that Peter didn't write 2 Peter. The other point is that Peter is the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who is also mentioned in Zechariah 13:7 per Matthew 26:31, as being among the sheep that "were scattered" when the Shepherd was struck. Peter was the guy who denied Yeshua 3 times which was mentioned in Mt 26:34. The followers of Paul, deny that Peter didn't write 2 Peter, because that would leave them in the lurch. You will need another critical source for your defamation of myself, and the glorification of Paul, besides Paul and his comrades.
There has been much debate over the authorship of 2 Peter. Most conservative evangelicals hold to the traditional view that Peter was the author, but historical and literary critics have almost unanimously concluded that to be impossible. For example: Ksemann states that 2 Peter is “perhaps the most dubious writing” in the New Testament.1 Harris says, “virtually none believe that 2 Peter was written by Jesus’ chief disciple.”2 And Brevard S. Childs, an excellent rhetorical critic, shows his assumption when he says, “even among scholars who recognize the non-Petrine authorship there remains the sharpest possible disagreement on a theological assessment.”3 | Bible.org
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I see you have no scripture to support your views so you need to pretend now that the Apostle Peter did not write Peter?
2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
You are better off believing the scriptures then ignoring them. The above scripture applies to you.
You might consider that Peter was "learned" only in the scope of being a fisherman. Doubtful if he could read and write. As for being "unstable", he said he would not deny Christ, yet he denied him 3 times. As for being stable when walking on water, that was not the case. 2 Peter was written by a well-versed apologist.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I suggest you heed the words and scriptures of the Apostle Peter here...
- 2 PETER 3:15-17 15, And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; 16, As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17, You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Colossians 2:16 says to let no man judge you in respect of a sabbath day. Those things were a shadow of the things that were to come. The reality (real thing) is found in Messiah. (But that's not saying I agree that we are commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.)
Under the Old covenant they were to keep the Sabbath as a day of rest. (That was the shadow) Now under the new covenant , we are working towards an eternal day of rest. Hebrews 4:8-11
Romans 14:5 - One man esteems one day above another, another man esteems every day alike. Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
There are many different kinds of sabbaths in the old covenant. Colossians 2:16 is not talking about Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. It is talking about the meat and drink offerings in the annual sabbaths (plural not singular) in the annual feast days. and not not letting others judge you in this regards. The scripture does not say Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.
All shadow laws point forward to things to come in Gods plan of salvation and atonement for sin pointing to Jesus as Gods promised Saviour for the sins of the whole world and were all given AFTER THE FALL AND SIN of mankind in the garden of Eden. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Gods 4th commandment and creation Sabbath to be a shadow of anything. Why? Because God made the Sabbath for all mankind BEFORE SIN AND LAW entered the world NOT AFTER SIN ENTERED THE WORLD. The Sabbath was made on the seventh day of the creation week when mankind was sinless and there was no plan of salvation and no law.
This is also further proven in Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 where the commandment starts of by saying "REMEMBER" THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY" The commandment is pointing BACKWARDS NOT FORWARDS TO THINGS TO COME as shadow laws do. The commandment is a MEMORIAL (Remember) pointing back to Genesis 2:1-3 as demonstrated in Exodus 20:11. So it is impossible for Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) to be a shadow law of anything as it points backwards as a memorial to the creation week (see Exodus 20:11) and to the seventh day where God blessed and made the seventh day a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) in honor of our God who is the creator of heaven and earth. You might also want to consider Gods 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (see 1 John 3:4) and if we break anyone of them just like committing murder or adultery we stand before God guilty of sin and death (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4 and Romans 3:19-20). Finally Hebrews 4:1-11 is telling is to keep the Sabbath not break the Sabbath (see Hebrews 4:1-5; 9-11). Happy to discuss this in detail if you are interested.
Again read the whole chapter of Romans 14. The chapter is talking about eating and drinking (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. There is no application to Gods Sabbath commandment here. You have to read that into the scriptures. Again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20) has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God and the very warnings of Hebrew 3 and Hebrews 4 and the very words of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 who says that if we do these things we are not worshiping God. It is not wise to cherry pick the scriptures taken out of context to the rest of the bible and try and build a doctrine around them to seek to try and justify sin (1 John 3:4) and unbelief.
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