Where are the Dead?

[Trailblazer]

It should, imo. Maybe I'm wrong but if your "religious beliefs" say there's no sex in heaven, then that's your religious belief.

They don't say that but it can be deduced because they say there is nothing physical in heaven and sex is physical.

And if it says that Bahaullah said the dead can communicate through mediums with the living, then that's part of your religious belief.

No, Baha'u'llah never said that.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't believe that the Bible is truthful, anyway, have a good one.

I do believe the Bible is truthful.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do believe the Bible is truthful.

lol, you mean certain parts of it, right?

 

[YoursTrue]

@Trailblazer I leave you with this point: did King Saul know that God forbade the Jews from accessing spirit mediums?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Firstly, this has nothing to do with my religious beliefs.

Secondly, I have no way of knowing if my husband wants to communicate with me but if he doesn't why did he keep turning the TV on?

Thirdly, I would need a medium since I am unable to communicate to the spiritual world, as I don't have that ability.

Fourthly, if he doesn't want to communicate with me the medium won't be able to contact him, or the medium will contact him and he will say he doesn't want to communicate with me. He would not communicate with me in life before or after he got sick, or while he was in the hospital so I had no closure. I don't even know for certain what he died of but I insisted on an autopsy so I will find out in due time, but my counselor told me I needed to try to contact him before I file a complaint with the health care system and possibly file a malpractice lawsuit. So as you can see this whole scenario is a big mess and it has taken me a whole year just to be able to deal with contacting him.

I do not think he was trying to frighten me by turning the TV on, I think he was trying to reach me, maybe to comfort me. He would never try to frighten me as he did not have a mean bone in his body.

Based on my personal knowledge and experience as a medium and paranormal investigator, I think that your husband is trying to interact with you and has been trying to get your attention by manipulating the television. It's happened to me before, except the television was clearly unplugged from the wall. The same happened to me with other electronic devices: a portable AM/FM radio (verified that there were no batteries), two table lamps, a blender, and an old rotary wall phone with a cut cord (verified that there was no phone service in the house). I've witnessed poltergeist activity for so long that it doesn't bother me or scare me. In all the years I've seen poltergeist activity, I've only been frightened by it once, and what I witnessed was inadvertently my fault. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that manipulating electronic devices and other material objects is one way for the dead to interact with and communicate with the living. It isn't necessarily something that should frighten people who want to communicate with and interact with the dead.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't understand your question.

So what I'm saying is what possibly can make you think that your late husband cannot go further than turning the tv off and on? How does this work in your mind? You say you need a spirit medium, then you say you believe the Bible, in which it specifically states that God does not want communication through spirit mediums (witches). It also states the dead are dead. They have no thoughts. They are -- dead.
But here are some statements from the Bible:
Leviticus 20:27 - "And a man or woman that has in them a spirit controlling them as medium of any kind must die; they shall stone them; their blood is on themselves."
Deuteronomy 18 - "When you enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire,a practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11casts spells, consults a medium or spiritist, or inquires of the dead. 12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD. And because of these detestable things, the LORD your God is driving out the nations before you.
13You must be blameless before the LORD your God. 14Though these nations, which you will dispossess, listen to conjurers and diviners, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so."

 

[YoursTrue]

Nobody is going to talk me out of what I have been planning to do for almost a year now. A couple of months ago, my counselor came up with the idea before I even brought it up, so I have a lot of support from her. I also have support from you, @JustGeorge and @Truthseeker and I have support from Ken, a man I met on a dating site who is a widower and communicated with his late wife several times.

It is not just Christians, but some Baha'is disapprove of trying to communicate with those who have crossed over to the next world, but that is because they rigidly interpret what some of the Baha'i Writings say, but there is no prohibition, just cautionary advice about what can happen if a medium is a fake, but I already know that.

Furthermore, when I see a person, I know I am seeing someone. Thank God I don't see ghosts. I don't pretend, and I don't play with ghosts. I am thankful for that. When I pray later, I will thank God that He taught me these things, whether you believe it or not, and whether others believe it or not. When I go to the store, I see people. I know they're there, I can see them. Ever wonder why Jesus appeared to his disciples so that they "saw" him? No spirit mediums necessary. OK, fini, it was interesting talking with you. I will thank God He taught me what the Bible really says.
Psalm 146 regarding the dead: His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

 

[Kenny]

I do not want to speak for @Sgt. Pepper but I think the bigger issue is that some of us don't believe that God was 'ever there for us' in the first place, and what is in the Bible is not enough to convince us otherwise.

Thank you for the honesty!

When I gave my life to Jesus I said in my mind, "Either the Bible is true or false! I'm going to start with it being true and test the sucker. I'll find out soon enough if it is false.".

I remember some years before staring into a Tom Collins at a bar appropriately called Mac's Zoo Room and wondering where all the miracles were that I had heard of in the Bible.

After giving my life to Jesus I saw God move amazingly! But I had to say "yes" first.

Could it be that He had His outstretched hand to help you through those difficult moments but we never grabbed the hand like I did staring a glass of alcohol?

 

[Kenny]

I think there is some truth to that and I would say that what we think we believe, owing to how we feel emotionally, does not always represent what we really believe.

A case in point is how I say I do not love God.

According to the definition love is an intense feeling of deep affection. I do not feel that way about God.

@Truthseeker and I talk a a lot about my love for God and this is what he said:

Truthseeker said:
You also forget about this Hidden Word:

48. O SON OF MAN!
For everything there is a sign. The sign of love is fortitude under My decree and patience under My trials.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

@Truthseeker said that he has seen me display these qualities, and I know I display them, so according to Baha'u'llah I love God, even if I do not "feel" that way.

Despite my feelings about God and what I think is a lack of love I always endure the trials and I have a lot of patience.

Thank you for your beautiful disposition.

I think about love, and certainly the love for my wife includes great feelings of deep affection.

As I meditated on the aspects of love, I began to wonder if I got the definition of love wrong.

I imagined Jesus on the cross looking at the very people He healed as they shouted obscenities at Him along with those who just had nothing but extreme hatred.

Did he have those feelings of deep affection? No;
Was he experiencing those goosebumps? No;
And I went down the line of all of what I thought were the physical and mental responses of when one has deep affections and realized that my definitions was too shallow.

When He said "Father forgiven them for they know not what they are doing", that was the definition of love. Feelings can come and go. Betrayal can come and go. Difficulties will come and go. His commitment never left even when all the feelings weren't there.

I think love is more than feelings.

Thoughts?

 

[Kenny]

It is true. According to the Bible, those who are wrong can't refuse their reward, and God won't refuse to reward with good, those who know.
(Matthew 6:16) . . .Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
(1 Corinthians 3:8) . . .each person will receive his own reward according to his own work.

Let me start by first saying you never come across offensive.

I think we have over-applied what I was saying. The context of what I am saying is only in reference to our position of Lazarus as historical vs parable. That is why I said that whoever is wrong won't change our future. Yes, there are some things that do make a difference.

Here you went from what we talked about to rewards. I think we can agree with rewards of our works. It is a change of subjects.

That is true, Ken. However, do you think that is worth mentioning?
Does it change that fact that persons do know the truth of God, and many don't, and those who don't know will die at the Lord's hands, even if they don't want to... according to what we read in scripture?

(John 8:31, 32) 31 . . .“If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
(2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8) . . .at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.

Do not forget what Jesus told actual people.
(John 8:44, 45) 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me.

Again, yes. We can agree with "if you remain in my word, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". In reference to historical Lazarus and parable Lazarus - it won't make us any more free or less free. IMV.

You really haven't given any substantive evidence that it is a parable. You believe your position is true and I believe my position is true. I don't think we are lying in that we believe our positions.

I love you Kenny.
Jesus said this... according to John.
(John 15:8-10) 8 My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

James, the brother of John, penned these words...
(James 2:17, 18) 17. . .faith by itself, without works, is dead. 18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

I don't think words mean much to God, if one cannot produce.
Matthew 7:21-23, as well as 1 Timothy 2:3, 4 helps us appreciate that it is about what God wants. Not what we think, or what we say.

It's truly sad to me, to hear pastors blasting the words of "Saved by grace / faith. Not works." while sitting on their laurels, and fleecing the flock.
It saddens me Kenny, because I believe you are a kind-hearted soul, but kind-heartedness do not win God's favor.
The Bible says, God cannot be bribed. If we allow wicked men to mislead us, it is because we do not want to do things God's way, but most want a ticket to heaven.

What do you say... Are works very important to God? Are you required by God, to prove your love, by what you do, rather than what you say?
Does your beliefs matter to God, according to scripture?

In answering thos questions, please consider this scripture also.
(2 Timothy 4:1-5)

Spoiler: Quote

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.

Remember Ken, the reason for telling you these things is because I love you, and your wife - your family, and friends.

I think you are confiscating salvation by works violating grace which is by faith and love and going back to the law of works vs a lifestyle of works birthed through love.

So I agree with all the scriptures you mentioned. Yes, works are important to God. We have to let our lights shine by our works. But the light is supplied by the oil of the Holy Spirit which is by grace and not by works lest we be bewitched Galatians 3:1-3.

If works could save us, Jesus wouldn't need to have died on the cross.

Faith and grace saves us and then, because we are saved, we should carry a boatload of works. Otherwise, our faith is dead.

If we go back to works for salvation, Romans 7 calls it spiritual adultery.

 

[Eli G]

Believing and spreading religious lies matter A LOT, since no one can represent God teaching falsehoods, nor he will accept someone saying that He is responsible for a lie he is believing. Teaching a religious lie is negating a divine truth. Besides, religious lies give false hope and a make a wrong representation of God and His justice. Religious lies belong to the father of the lie and liers. All Christians should be more than sure that what they teach is truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

lol, you mean certain parts of it, right?

Certain parts of the Bible are literally true and other parts are allegorically true.

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer I leave you with this point: did King Saul know that God forbade the Jews from accessing spirit mediums?

I have no idea, but even if he did, why do you think that what was addressed to the Jews thousands of years ago would apply to people living today?
That is drop dead illogical.

 

[Eli G]

Certain parts of the Bible are literally true and other parts are allegorically true.

And who determines which ones are this or that? Bahais?

 

[Eli G]

I have no idea, but even if he did, why do you think that what was addressed to the Jews thousands of years ago would apply to people living today?
That is drop dead illogical.

Because what God disapproved of 2 millennia ago he still disapproves of?

Mal. 3:6 “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. (...) "

Is. 41: 4 Who has acted and done this,
Summoning the generations from the beginning?
I, Jehovah, am the First One;
And with the last ones I am the same.”

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If it is not normal because no normal cause can be identified then it is paranormal.

That is correct. Nowadays, accepting the reality of ghosts and other paranormal phenomena is more common in modern society. In my opinion, the reasons why so many people are interested in the paranormal are either because they are curious to know what will happen to them and others after death or because they have personally experienced the paranormal and are sincerely looking for explanations to make sense of this incredible life-changing experience. The latter applies to me. It's the reason I started researching the paranormal back in August of 2007. I've been researching and investigating the paranormal for the past sixteen years. I've traveled across the country to investigate both notoriously known haunted locations and suspected haunted locations. The negative stigma associated with believing in the paranormal has significantly lessened during the last twenty-three years. In fact, it is more widely accepted and common in today's society to acknowledge the reality of ghosts and other paranormal phenomena.

Researching the paranormal is a hobby of mine. I've researched the trend of increased acceptance of the paranormal. Rather than starting from scratch, I decided to copy what I posted on a related topic. As shown by the statistics, belief in the paranormal has become more acceptable in modern society.

According to a survey from October 2021, 63 percent of its participants (2,000 people aged 21 and over) believe in the paranormal in some form. The people surveyed said the most common unexplained beings they believe exist include ghosts (57%), aliens (39%), and Bigfoot (27%). A third (35%) of the people surveyed said they have felt an unexplained presence in their home, prompting them to believe that they are being haunted. Here is a link to the survey: "Paranormal Nation: Nearly two-thirds of Americans believe in ghosts or aliens." For the record, there is a designated day each year (May 3rd) for people who believe in paranormal phenomena: National Paranormal Day 2023—A day for people who believe in ghosts and paranormal activities.

The following articles demonstrate how there has been a steady increase in people believing in paranormal phenomena since the year 2000.

Gallup Poll: One Third of Americans Believe in Ghosts (2000)

Americans' Belief in Psychic and Paranormal Phenomena Is up Over Last Decade (2001)

Three in Four Americans Believe in Paranormal (2005)

Brilliant Scientists Are Open-Minded about Paranormal Stuff, So Why Not You? (2012)

Spooky Number Of Americans Believe In Ghosts (2013; updated 2017)

Pew Research Center: 18% of Americans say they’ve seen a ghost (2015)

Paranormal America 2017 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2017)

Paranormal America 2018 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2018)

You Gov America: Many Americans believe ghosts and demons exist (2019)

Reports Of Paranormal Activity On The Rise During Coronavirus Stay-At-Home Orders (2020)

57 Percent of Americans Believe in Ghosts — and Many Think There's Paranormal Activity in Their Home (2021)

You Gov America: Two-thirds of Americans say they've had a paranormal encounter (2022)

 

[Trailblazer]

So what I'm saying is what possibly can make you think that your late husband cannot go further than turning the tv off and on?

I never said that he couldn't go further. He also made things in my house disappear, never to be found again.

How does this work in your mind? You say you need a spirit medium, then you say you believe the Bible, in which it specifically states that God does not want communication through spirit mediums (witches). It also states the dead are dead. They have no thoughts. They are -- dead.

The Bible says that dead bodies are dead, but we don't need the Bible to know that. When the body died the spirit (soul) leaves the body and passes to another world, but sometimes that spirit can come back to this world and cause paranormal things to happen.

As I just said in a previous post, the Old Testament does not apply to people living in today's modern world. That's why we don't stone adulterers or homosexuals to death, and we don't make animal sacrifices either. What about the word OLD do you not understand? You are trying to make an old book apply to a modern world but it won't work.

But here are some statements from the Bible:
Leviticus 20:27 - "And a man or woman that has in them a spirit controlling them as medium of any kind must die; they shall stone them; their blood is on themselves."

Then let's stone to death adulterers and homosexuals too. Do you think that's right? The Old Testament is outdated. It does not apply to the modern world. The spiritual teachings are eternal, but the injunctions and laws don't apply to people living today.

Deuteronomy 18 - "When you enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire,a practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11casts spells, consults a medium or spiritist, or inquires of the dead. 12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD. And because of these detestable things, the LORD your God is driving out the nations before you.
13You must be blameless before the LORD your God. 14Though these nations, which you will dispossess, listen to conjurers and diviners, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so."

This was written for the Jews living thousands of years ago and does not apply to anyone living today.

“the Law of God is divided into two parts. One is the fundamental basis which comprises all spiritual things—that is to say, it refers to the spiritual virtues and divine qualities; this does not change nor alter: it is the Holy of Holies, which is the essence of the Law of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá’u’lláh, and which lasts and is established in all the prophetic cycles. It will never be abrogated, for it is spiritual and not material truth; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen......

These foundations of the Religion of God, which are spiritual and which are the virtues of humanity, cannot be abrogated; they are irremovable and eternal, and are renewed in the cycle of every Prophet.

The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 47-48

 

[Eli G]

I wonder why atheists of the forum seem not to watch this spiritism activism while they are so agressive with Biblical teachings.

Do they consider spiritism a science?

 

[Trailblazer]

Psalm 146 regarding the dead: His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

I don't need the Bible to figure that out. When the body dies the brain dies and no more thoughts come from the body, but the soul (spirit) continues to live after the body dies, and since it is the soul that is responsible for consciousness, the person continues to think after he is transformed into a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[Trailblazer]

And who determines which ones are this or that? Bahais?

No, it does not require a Baha'i to determine this. It only requires someone with a logical mind and spiritual perception.