Where are the Dead?

[nPeace]

you ignored my statements. You say it is a parable because Jesus spoke in parables - so it is a parable because Jesus spoke in parables THAT is circular reasoning.

Show me any of the other true parables where Jesus used actual names. Let it be confirmed by a witness of two.

you don't have one, so..... Jesus spoke in parables and that is why it is a parable.... and you list the parables... circular.

I didn't say that Ken.
I'll give you a box of KFC if you can show me where I said that.

Just applying your circular statements.



no reference that it is dead



EXACTLY!

So, you agree that the scriptures make clear that if we are wrong it changes our faith results?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You can cherry-pick Bible verses and interpret them to mean what you want them to mean, but that does not change reality.

I thought I'd tell you that in my personal interactions with Jehovah's Witnesses, I realized that they were taught a very precise doctrine regarding salvation. So, I suppose the same could be true for what they were taught about the afterlife. I've had a few of them come to my house and attempt to woo me into converting, and I've met a few while leading an evangelism team in street preaching. A few of them attempted to challenge me and my team regarding our message and interpretation of the Bible, but we stood firm and countered everything they threw at us, and they eventually gave up and left. It was the same with the ones who came to my house and attempted to convert me. I stood firm and apparently confused them by asking them questions about the Bible that they didn't appear prepared to answer or maybe weren't trained to answer. After this happened a few times, they stopped coming to my house.

I was relieved because I had grown weary of their pesky intrusion. In my experience with them, their knowledge of the Bible was limited to the scriptures and doctrines they were taught. None of them performed well when they were pushed to deviate from the script. I'm not sure if this is true of all Jehovah's Witnesses, but it was certainly true of those I've met. However, I suppose some JWs are better trained in their official doctrines than others in their church.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you for taking your time to answer.

I still don't find in your comment anything proving that "Abraham's Bosom" is a literal place unless you refer to this place:

Gen. 49:29 After that he gave these commands to them: “I am being gathered to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Eʹphron the Hitʹtite, 30 the cave in the field of Mach·peʹlah in front of Mamʹre in the land of Caʹnaan, the field that Abraham purchased from Eʹphron the Hitʹtite as a property for a burial place. 31 There they buried Abraham and his wife Sarah. There they buried Isaac and his wife Re·bekʹah, and there I buried Leʹah. (...) 33 Thus Jacob finished giving these instructions to his sons. Then he drew his feet up onto the bed and breathed his last and was gathered to his people.

... where the bodies of the deceased, including Abraham and Sarah in his bosom, were deposited.

Yes but even the expression in his bosom especially in this context must absolutely be taken illustratively.

 

[YoursTrue]

I thought I'd tell you that in my personal interactions with Jehovah's Witnesses, I realized that they were taught a very precise doctrine regarding salvation. So, I suppose the same could be true for what they were taught about the afterlife. I've had a few of them come to my house and attempt to woo me into converting, and I've met a few while leading an evangelism team in street preaching. A few of them attempted to challenge me and my team regarding our message and interpretation of the Bible, but we stood firm and countered everything they threw at us, and they eventually gave up and left. It was the same with the ones who came to my house and attempted to convert me. I stood firm and apparently confused them by asking them questions about the Bible that they didn't appear prepared to answer or maybe weren't trained to answer. After this happened a few times, they stopped coming to my house.

I was relieved because I had grown weary of their pesky intrusion. In my experience with them, their knowledge of the Bible was limited to the scriptures and doctrines they were taught. None of them performed well when they were pushed to deviate from the script. I'm not sure if this is true of all Jehovah's Witnesses, but it was certainly true of those I've met. However, I suppose some JWs are better trained in their official doctrines than others in their church.

Pardon me, Sgt. Pepper, but when you say your team are you speaking of unseen spirit persons?

 

[Kenny]

Thank you for taking your time to answer.

I still don't find in your comment anything proving that "Abraham's Bosom" is a literal place unless you refer to this place:

Gen. 49:29 After that he gave these commands to them: “I am being gathered to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Eʹphron the Hitʹtite, 30 the cave in the field of Mach·peʹlah in front of Mamʹre in the land of Caʹnaan, the field that Abraham purchased from Eʹphron the Hitʹtite as a property for a burial place. 31 There they buried Abraham and his wife Sarah. There they buried Isaac and his wife Re·bekʹah, and there I buried Leʹah. (...) 33 Thus Jacob finished giving these instructions to his sons. Then he drew his feet up onto the bed and breathed his last and was gathered to his people.

... where the bodies of the deceased, including Abraham and Sarah in his bosom, were deposited.

No... I, I don't think Abraham is talking to a rich man and Lazarus in that cave. - But that was a good one. Unless you think that all of this is happening in that cave:


Ecclesiastes 7:14 ) . "God hath set the one over against the other", say F6, ``this is hell and paradise, what space is there between them? an hand's breadth; R. Jochanan says a wall, but the Rabbans say, they are both of them even, so that they may look out of one into another.'' Which passage is cited a little differently F7, thus; ``wherefore did the holy blessed God create hell and paradise? that they might be one against another; what space is there between them? R. Jochanan says, a wall, and R. Acha says an hand's breadth: but the Rabbans say, two fingers.'' And elsewhere it F8 is said, ``know that hell and paradise are near to one another, and one house separates between them; and paradise is on the north east side---and hell on the north west.'' Mahomet seems to have borrowed this notion from them, who says F9, ``between the blessed and the damned, there shall be a vail; and men shall stand on "Al Araf", (the name of the wall or partition, that shall separate paradise from hell,) who shall know every one of them by their mouths.'' ``into which no man can enter but the righteous, whose souls are "carried" thither, (aykalm dyb) , "in the hand", or "by the means" of angels.'' And elsewhere they say,``with the Shekinah come three ministering angels to receive the soul of a righteous man.'' Particularly it is said of Moses, at the time of his death, that ``the holy blessed God descended from the highest heavens, to take the soul of Moses, and three ministering angels with him.'' And sometimes they say, not only three angels, but three companies of angels attend at such a time: their words are these; ``when a righteous man departs out of the world, three companies of ministering angels meet him; one says to him, "come in peace"; and another says, "walking in his uprightness" and the other says, "he shall enter into peace"''

 

[Kenny]

So, you agree that the scriptures make clear that if we are wrong it changes our faith results?

Does the difference make the difference between Heaven and Hell in your belief system?

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought I'd tell you that in my personal interactions with Jehovah's Witnesses, I realized that they were taught a very precise doctrine regarding salvation. So, I suppose the same could be true for what they were taught about the afterlife. I've had a few of them come to my house and attempt to woo me into converting, and I've met a few while leading an evangelism team in street preaching. A few of them attempted to challenge me and my team regarding our message and interpretation of the Bible, but we stood firm and countered everything they threw at us, and they eventually gave up and left. It was the same with the ones who came to my house and attempted to convert me. I stood firm and apparently confused them by asking them questions about the Bible that they didn't appear prepared to answer or maybe weren't trained to answer. After this happened a few times, they stopped coming to my house.

I was relieved because I had grown weary of their pesky intrusion. In my experience with them, their knowledge of the Bible was limited to the scriptures and doctrines they were taught. None of them performed well when they were pushed to deviate from the script. I'm not sure if this is true of all Jehovah's Witnesses, but it was certainly true of those I've met. However, I suppose some JWs are better trained in their official doctrines than others in their church.

Are you psychic? It's funny you mentioned that because I just opened a letter I got in the mail from someone in the JW organization. It was addressed to my late husband since they have sent letters before and that is who they have as a contact. Every time I see something with his name on it I go to pieces, so I covered up the addressee and put JWs on it since I plan to read it later after I am more composed. I am kind of curious what is in the letter.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Are you psychic?

You know, that's not the first time I've done that.

It's funny you mentioned that because I just opened a letter I got in the mail from someone in the JW organization. It was addressed to my late husband since they have sent letters before and that is who they have as a contact. Every time I see something with his name on it I go to pieces, so I covered up the addressee and put JWs on it since I plan to read it later after I am more composed. I am kind of curious what is in the letter.

I'm sorry that seeing the letter addressed to your late husband upset you. I'm sure you'll feel better once you talk to the medium and get some closure.

 

[nPeace]

Does the difference make the difference between Heaven and Hell in your belief system?

From my reading of the Bible, the Bible is not about Heaven and Hell. That's what I grew up hearing preached in church.
I learned from studying the Bible, that God holds out everlasting life for a small / little flock to rule as kings in the heavenly kingdom, over the earth that will be inhabited with millions of people making up God's earthly family... all rescued from sin, and death in the common grave of mankind.
So, yes, it does make a difference between life and death, in my understanding of scripture.

 

[Kenny]

From my reading of the Bible, the Bible is not about Heaven and Hell. That's what I grew up hearing preached in church.
I learned from studying the Bible, that God holds out everlasting life for a small / little flock to rule as kings in the heavenly kingdom, over the earth that will be inhabited with millions of people making up God's earthly family... all rescued from sin, and death in the common grave of mankind.
So, yes, it does make a difference between life and death, in my understanding of scripture.

Does the difference change the reality of you living as a king in the heavenly kingdom?

 

[YoursTrue]

You know, that's not the first time I've done that.



I'm sorry that seeing the letter addressed to your late husband upset you. I'm sure you'll feel better once you talk to the medium and get some closure.

May I ask why someone would try to talk to an unseen spirit person and not God?

 

[Eli G]

No... I, I don't think Abraham is talking to a rich man and Lazarus in that cave. - But that was a good one. Unless you think that all of this is happening in that cave:


...

But ... you believe the parable is a real story, and in that story "Lazarus" has a body. If he is in Abraham's bosom literally, Abraham has a body too. But the body of Abraham, where is it?

Luke 12:23 And in the [Hades] he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’

So, is it a real story or just a parable as many believe?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry that seeing the letter addressed to your late husband upset you. I'm sure you'll feel better once you talk to the medium and get some closure.

That upset me a little but what upset me more was something else that happened today.

I was looking for a photo of my mother that I knew was in this small album she gave me and when I opened it I saw her standing next to my late husband. She always loved him and he always loved her.... I caught only a glimpse long enough to know it was him by the sweater, then I immediately closed it. My mother passed on in 2007 so that photo has to be at least that old.

It is a really bad idea for the GriefShare group to ask us to bring photos of the person we lost who is now dead. I won't be bringing any photos and I will be telling them how I feel next Saturday, how much pain that caused me. This will be the last session of the series of 13 sessions and I will probably not go back in the fall to repeat the series.

My counselor assigned me the task of e-mailing the medium who I plan to use to contact him, and opening that album triggered me to do that. Since I have to e-mail the medium before my counseling appointment on Thursday, I e-mailed his assistant and now I wait to hear from her.
I don't know what I will find out in the communication but I am now beyond the point where I can worry about that. I have to try to get some information and closure.

 

[Trailblazer]

May I ask why someone would try to talk to an unseen spirit person and not God?

I need to communicate with my late husband, not God.
What good would it do me to talk to God? I already talked to God, over and over and over again, but God does not talk back, in case you never noticed.

 

[nPeace]

Does the difference change the reality of you living as a king in the heavenly kingdom?

I'm not going to be living as a king in the heavenly kingdom... but yes, the anointed cannot be ignorant of the Truth, or God's purpose.
What are you trying to get at though?
What I understand from scripture is that what we believe affects our relationship with God, and can hinder our getting to know God; drawing close to him; hating what God hates, and separating ourselves from such things... or otherwise.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That upset me a little but what upset me more was something else that happened today.

I was looking for a photo of my mother that I knew was in this small album she gave me and when I opened it I saw her standing next to my late husband. She always loved him and he always loved her.... I caught only a glimpse long enough to know it was him by the sweater, then I immediately closed it. My mother passed on in 2007 so that photo has to be at least that old.

It is a really bad idea for the GriefShare group to ask us to bring photos of the person we lost who is now dead. I won't be bringing any photos and I will be telling them how I feel next Saturday, how much pain that caused me. This will be the last session of the series of 13 sessions and I will probably not go back in the fall to repeat the series.

My counselor assigned me the task of e-mailing the medium who I plan to use to contact him, and opening that album triggered me to do that. Since I have to e-mail the medium before my counseling appointment on Thursday, I e-mailed his assistant and now I wait to hear from her.
I don't know what I will find out in the communication but I am now beyond the point where I can worry about that. I have to try to get some information and closure.

I know I've already said this, but I'll say it again: I wish I could help you communicate with your late husband. Please let me know if I can assist you in any way or if you just need to talk. My inbox is always open for you. If I could, I would help you contact your late husband and help you find some closure.

I need to communicate with my late husband, not God.
What good would it do me to talk to God? I already talked to God, over and over and over again, but God does not talk back, in case you never noticed.

I need to say that it is no one's business why you want to communicate with your late husband through a psychic medium, unless you wish to discuss it with another person. In my opinion, no one has the right to try to dissuade or shame you into changing your mind. It is your decision and no one else's. I don't care what their religious beliefs are. As far as I'm concerned, they should mind their own business. And I agree with you about trying to talk to God.

 

[YoursTrue]

I need to communicate with my late husband, not God.
What good would it do me to talk to God? I already talked to God, over and over and over again, but God does not talk back, in case you never noticed.

My God does not speak English in verbal outloud communication. He answers me though. I am very happy I no longer consort or converse with spirits. I am thankful for that because the God I worship taught me not to do that. He taught me because of what he told me in the Bible. So may you have a good day. I am very happy He taught me.

 

[YoursTrue]

Does the difference change the reality of you living as a king in the heavenly kingdom?

Not that this is directly pertinent to the subject, but I would like to mention that Jesus is no longer human. He was killed. Gave up his human life. His spirit came from heaven. He went back to heaven after he was resurrected. This in relation to those who would be kings. Although they were not born perfect and did not live in heaven as Jesus did before he came to the earth. Thank you for your post though because it helped me reflect on this.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know I've already said this, but I'll say it again: I wish I could help you communicate with your late husband. Please let me know if I can assist you in any way or if you just need to talk. My inbox is always open for you. If I could, I would help you contact your late husband and help you find some closure.



I need to say that it is no one's business why you want to communicate with your late husband through a psychic medium, unless you wish to discuss it with another person. In my opinion, no one has the right to try to dissuade or shame you into changing your mind. It is your decision and no one else's. I don't care what their religious beliefs are. As far as I'm concerned, they should mind their own business. And I agree with you about trying to talk to God.

If you can talk of your beliefs, I can presently speak of mine. Thank you. I don't ask you to accept them. I explain the freedom God has blessed me with now.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That upset me a little but what upset me more was something else that happened today.

I was looking for a photo of my mother that I knew was in this small album she gave me and when I opened it I saw her standing next to my late husband. She always loved him and he always loved her.... I caught only a glimpse long enough to know it was him by the sweater, then I immediately closed it. My mother passed on in 2007 so that photo has to be at least that old.

It is a really bad idea for the GriefShare group to ask us to bring photos of the person we lost who is now dead. I won't be bringing any photos and I will be telling them how I feel next Saturday, how much pain that caused me. This will be the last session of the series of 13 sessions and I will probably not go back in the fall to repeat the series.

My counselor assigned me the task of e-mailing the medium who I plan to use to contact him, and opening that album triggered me to do that. Since I have to e-mail the medium before my counseling appointment on Thursday, I e-mailed his assistant and now I wait to hear from her.
I don't know what I will find out in the communication but I am now beyond the point where I can worry about that. I have to try to get some information and closure.

I'd also like to say that you shouldn't feel pressured to contact your late husband. Take all the time you need. Of course, I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm sure you already know that it will be a very emotional experience for you. I've given readings to many people over the years, so I know that it can be a very emotional experience to receive a message from a deceased loved one through a medium. It can be even more emotional when you can talk to your deceased loved one through a medium. I know that it can be life-changing and that it can bring closure and healing for both the living and the dead.