when does reincarnation happen?

[Maya3]

When do you think a soul enters the baby´s body?
Is it at conception, or once the baby is fully formed? Or at birth?

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

This is just my POV, based on some personal experience, so take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much. If it's an old soul, and they know what they're doing, they will come in right away. Old souls know the story, as they've been through it many times. From the astral plane, they will select a family, and hover about, even encouraging the selected family to create a physical body specifically for them. When this is the case, they will enter a few hours or even minutes after conception, the physical part they need. They do this because its more or less first come, first serve.

For really dharmic families who are ideal candidates, there will actually be a line-up of souls wanting to get in.

Young souls, however, don't know what they're doing. They don't believe in reincarnation at all, for starters, and have no idea as to the story. So they will wander about the astral plane, occasionally enter animals by mistake, and eventually take whatever is available. So in this case it might be 5 months into the pregnancy, and it'll be in a family that also doesn't know what its doing, or even that souls exist. An alcoholic will re-enter the womb of another alcoholic, for example. So like attracts like.

Sometimes an old soul will purposefully take on a birth like this for one specific reason ... to work out karma faster. These are the people you meet who blow your mind away because of their intelligence or sanity, despite horrific conditions.

Then we have a range of all cases in between these two extremes.

 

[BSM1]

This is just my POV, based on some personal experience, so take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much. If it's an old soul, and they know what they're doing, they will come in right away. Old souls know the story, as they've been through it many times. From the astral plane, they will select a family, and hover about, even encouraging the selected family to create a physical body specifically for them. When this is the case, they will enter a few hours or even minutes after conception, the physical part they need. They do this because its more or less first come, first serve

.

Excellent answer. So, in your opinion, are old souls reincarnated whereas new souls are just reborn?

 

[Vinayaka]

No. It's all reincarnation, but at different knowledge or vibratory rate levels. Its knowledge, like math. There is kindergarten math, and there' s calculus.

But just a reminder, this is a Hinduism DIR.

 

[Maya3]

This is just my POV, based on some personal experience, so take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much. If it's an old soul, and they know what they're doing, they will come in right away. Old souls know the story, as they've been through it many times. From the astral plane, they will select a family, and hover about, even encouraging the selected family to create a physical body specifically for them. When this is the case, they will enter a few hours or even minutes after conception, the physical part they need. They do this because its more or less first come, first serve.

For really dharmic families who are ideal candidates, there will actually be a line-up of souls wanting to get in.

Young souls, however, don't know what they're doing. They don't believe in reincarnation at all, for starters, and have no idea as to the story. So they will wander about the astral plane, occasionally enter animals by mistake, and eventually take whatever is available. So in this case it might be 5 months into the pregnancy, and it'll be in a family that also doesn't know what its doing, or even that souls exist. An alcoholic will re-enter the womb of another alcoholic, for example. So like attracts like.

Sometimes an old soul will purposefully take on a birth like this for one specific reason ... to work out karma faster. These are the people you meet who blow your mind away because of their intelligence or sanity, despite horrific conditions.

Then we have a range of all cases in between these two extremes.

I love this!

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you. For Hindus like me, which includes a lot of born Hindus I know, who have experiences in the field, it is just basic stuff. So really it's no big deal. Reincarnation is rarely even discussed, its just such a given.

People in cultures who eat insects think it is no big deal. Only those unfamiliar with the concept see it as a big deal.

 

[ratikala]

When do you think a soul enters the baby´s body?
Is it at conception, or once the baby is fully formed? Or at birth?

Maya

dear maya ,

at conception , ..... some people are actualy aware of the souls presence as it enters the womb , yes as vinayaka says the soul is attracted to life and takes on a birth befiting its karmic imprints , a wise or awake soul will choose its birth , choose a pious family and good conditions for its next life ,.... it can choose to be born in the same tradition or conditions where it can continue its sadhana . a more worldly motivated soul will be attracted to fammiliar saroundings and may be re born in or around its fammily members , others are attracted to particular conditions or situations rather than persons .

it is said that those with animalistic tendancys in their previous lives may take lower births but I belive on the whole these are lower human births , but concider the story of the deciple's question and his guru's reply , ......the deciple asked his guru if there was a way by which he might offer then consume flesh ? asking his guru if there was some mantra by which he may do this ? ..... the guru replied , .... NO ! some days later the deciple came again to the guru and repeated his request saying that he had heard that there was a mantra which could be chanted which permited him to offer then eat flesh ? ....the guru again replied , ...NO ! the deciple would not let it rest and again asked his guru if there was not some particular special mantra which might be chanted which would permit this offering ? ....this time the guru turned to his deciple saying allright if you are determined to offer and consume flesh , if this is your wish , then I will give you a mantra by the utterance of which you may do as you desire , .....you must go in person to the animal that you wish to sacrifice and as you prepair to slaughter the animal , as you hold the knife to its throat you must whisper in its ear , I will kill you in this life time you will kill me in the same manner in the next life !

one might assume that the deciple curses him self to a similar animal birth to experience un nececary slaughter !

it is allso said that one who kills a cow takes as many animal births as there are hairs on the body of that cow !

for a non hindu to kill a cow is an act of ignorance , but for a hindu to kill a cow is a grave sin which he knows he should not commit there fore the reaction is far stronger than the act done in ignorance .

 

[Vrindavana Das]

A sperm would not swim towards an ovary if there were no life (soul) in it. A baby's body is formed around the soul. Without the soul, body cannot develop; just like your body cannot develop without your soul being present in it.

No soul can choose which family etc. it is going to be born in. It is decided by it's previous karma and superior powers.

To clarify, if a person kills a cow, he WILL have to be born a cow and the cow WILL be born as a human to slaughter this erstwhile human (now cow) and settle the karmic debt. This is the law of nature.

This statement of Lord Krishna in Bhagavad Gītā confirms that souls are reincarnated according to their karma:

prāpya puṇya-kṛtāḿ lokān
uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ
śucīnāḿ śrīmatāḿ gehe
yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate​

The unsuccessful yogī, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy. [B.G. 6.41]

 

[Babs]

I can't say if this is the normal thing to go on, but....my last incarnation ended around 4 months before my current incarnation and I was full term. I still can't say if there was any time spent in the afterlife before I went into my new body, how much time that might have been, or if the transition was immediate.

 

[Valjean]

This is all just speculation, of course. Like the old controversy over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. There's really been no systematic, scientific research on the subject which, IMHO, would be the only way really to shed any light on it.

Of course, there are the insights from enlightened persons, but these are personal revelations only. Taking someone else's word for something without supporting evidence or personal experience... well, we've seen the results of that.

Personally, I see re-incarnation as a multi-level phenomenon (as I do most things). At one level there's really nothing to re-incarnate, as there's ultimately only a single, extant consciousness and no past/present/future.

At a less unified level, reality would still not be the directional, time-bound "arrow" we experience in 3rd-state.
Individual lives are running repeatedly and continuously, over and over, like film strips. Any jivatman can jump aboard.
As for "time", we could jump aboard our grandfather's dharma-strip just as easily as any in the (illusory) "future."

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, there are many POVs. There always is. For the OP, its really 'what makes the most sense?"

There is also personal experience, like direct recall of a past life. So the scientist will just say, 'a daydream, wishful thinking, or 'a hallucination'. Not only his right, but perhaps his duty to say that.

As far as time of entrance, my wife always knew when she was pregnant, right after conception. The first time I was very skeptical. Two weeks later when the physical tests came in, I was less skeptical. By the time our fifth child was born, I trusted her. She never once said, "I'm pregnant" when she wasn't, and she got all 5 correctly. The scientist will say I'm lying to make a point. Oh, well, anyone is entitled to believe another person is lying.

 

[ratikala]

Yes, there are many POVs. There always is. For the OP, its really 'what makes the most sense?"

dear vinayaka ji ,

what you say is perfectly in line with the experience of some frends of mine , some people have a natural aptitude to sence such things , one couple I know the husband spoke of a strong sence of that other being sliping in between them , he wasnt even familiar with the subject of reincarnation at that point but he knew that conception had happened at that moment .
another freind told me he could sence the new being his wife carried before she even thought that she might be pregnant , this must hapen with many people , but from the personal reports I have heard it is without doubt that one or other parent senced their being another soul either from conception or from very early on in the pregnancy .

I am hardly interested in sciences veiw point on this I am afraid I trust human intuition on this one , simmilarly I have another freind who allways sences when a person is ready do leave their body , I have never known him to be wrong either ,
one family freind had undergone hospital treatment and was showing remarkable signs of recovery when he suddenly just lay down and passed away , everyone doctors included were some what surprised as he went so suddenly , after his death our friend said that he knew from the last visit that he had decided to go .he simply had not wanted to say anything .

things in this area are not as cut and dried as science might like to think nor are they provable by scientific methods alone as we are not dealing with physical matter alone .

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

This is very interesting question, I have been wondering the same thing but...Not on the same side !

I don't know exactly "when" a soul enter a body, I don't remember much thing from any past time But the relationship and the feelings a mother have, like Vinayakaji described, when she is pregnant is sure a sign. The sound of water, some posture, also have impact on childrens and adults as they consciously or inconsciously remind the womb....So there must be some kind of consicousness in here =0 Like Sri Vishnuji sleeping, in the state where He dream the next world, maybe we are like that in the womb, dreaming our next life ?


I was wondering about when you die ! There have been very much testimonies from people that experienced death, or near death experiences. Those people are from all around the world, events scientifically witnessed, so I personnaly give credits to their sayings. But this confuse me regarding reincarnation ! Since almost all of that people said they were feeling bliss, light, and saw dead relatives/animals dear to them !


I though at the time of death only the Atman remain, which is not our appearance/personality/ego. And at the time of next life, only the atman enter a new body and make new life, ego, physical features....

...But why do these people saw dead relatives while experiencing death/near death ? I mean, they shouldn't have their ex-physical appearance, or even be there as they should be merged with Brahman or in another body

Reincarnation is not very much discussed, I don't really know why, as it is a very interesting topic that can help understanding more how everything works


Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

Ratikala, thank you for your support. I am with you in that I really don't care what scientists say or think. They can't deny me my experience. That would be the epitome of arrogance.

For me, it just is what it is. Convincing others of the truth of reincarnation is not why we are here on this planet. Let nature take its course. In due time, all souls will understand the truth of it. Being stuck in the doubt of the intellect is a stage all must go through. Eventually there comes a point where you just can't deny mystical experience. Its too strong.

One of my children was a dear friend. He took out a life insurance in his parent's name for 100 000 dollars two weeks before he died in a tragic accident. I went to the funeral, spotted him watching from a tree, took him back to the city in my car, as if he was there in a physical body, but I didn't stop to buy him coffee. He may have appreciated the smell. :sorry1: We conceived and welcomed him shortly thereafter.

About a month before his dropping of the physical body, he tested my wife and I on parenthood by leaving a marijuana cigarette in our car. By throwing it out, I passed the test of parenthood. So then he was ready, and we were prepared. His tragic accident was no big surprise.

About two years into this lifetime, he looked at me and said, "I saw you once from the top of a tree." He had no reason at all to say that, although much later he was a tree climber. He just wanted some kind of really normal stable life, and we were able to provide the conditions where he was able to obtain that.

So this is how it is. An interesting little sideline, maybe. But we're here for moksha, not these little sidelines. "People say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." Good to know there are kindred spirits out there. :yes:

 

[Vinayaka]

@Jaya ... the soul body continues in a replica of its last physical body, until it takes on a new body. The atman is different and usually considered the Self which is the core of the soul body. This is just my personal understanding, and will be surely contradicted by a thinker.

 

[ratikala]

dear vinayaka ,

jai jai , many would say what an amasing story , except if you spend much time amongst indians and tibetans who are allways coming up with accounts of happenings like this
the scientificaly minded may like to dismiss such un provables , even when they can be proved for example people knowing things that they could not possibly know !and there are millions of accounts of this happening .

but excuse me I am straying from the original post , when does the spirit or soul enter ,
your account confirms that it is at conception .

again I am going of topic a little but if one wishes to read the 'bardo thodol' (liberation through hearing , 'the tibetan book of the dead'), one will come across descriptions of the entire process of life , death and rebirth , allthough the process of liberation through hearing in this form is particular to tibetan buddhism , much of the contents where it refers to the stages of leaving the body and taking a new , concur with much hindu thought , but the 'bardo thodol' gives an amazingly detailed account .
it is worth also to concider the close relationship tibetan buddhism holds to earlier indian yogic and tantric traditions when reading such texts .
reading the 'bardo thodol' would allso confirm that the soul enters at conception .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram jayabholenath ,

I don't know exactly "when" a soul enter a body, I don't remember much thing from any past time But the relationship and the feelings a mother have, like Vinayakaji described, when she is pregnant is sure a sign. The sound of water, some posture, also have impact on childrens and adults as they consciously or inconsciously remind the womb....So there must be some kind of consicousness in here =0 Like Sri Vishnuji sleeping, in the state where He dream the next world, maybe we are like that in the womb, dreaming our next life ?


I was wondering about when you die ! There have been very much testimonies from people that experienced death, or near death experiences. Those people are from all around the world, events scientifically witnessed, so I personnaly give credits to their sayings. But this confuse me regarding reincarnation ! Since almost all of that people said they were feeling bliss, light, and saw dead relatives/animals dear to them !

deffinately , you should find the 'bardo thodol' most interesting , I wont spoil it by telling you too much as it will explain many questions raised here
and is an interesting read as you might find your self relating to some aspects .
many people who have had near death experiences can identify perfectly with the early stages .

yes , it is very interesting to the western mind as we are reared to , or conditioned to think quite differently about death . on the whole people of hindu , buddhist , ...., birth think very differently and take such things to be known by all , therefore it is not so much discussed , it dosent need to be , but the western mind is coming to terms with another way of thinking ..... so yes it is very interesting

 

[Vrindavana Das]

I though at the time of death only the Atman remain, which is not our appearance/personality/ego. And at the time of next life, only the atman enter a new body and make new life, ego, physical features....

At the time of death, the gross body dies. The soul, in the subtle body goes from one body to the next. The subtle body consists of soul, mind, intelligence and ego.

...But why do these people saw dead relatives while experiencing death/near death ? I mean, they shouldn't have their ex-physical appearance, or even be there as they should be merged with Brahman or in another body

One will merge with Brahman only if he has achieved liberation from material bondage.

If he has attachment for his dog, wife, children etc., then he will think of them at the time of death. If one remembers about his dog while dying, he will get the next life of a dog.

yam yam vāpi smaran bhāvam
tyajaty ante kalevaram
tam tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitah​

"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail." [B.G. 8.6]

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

:namaste Thank you very much everyone, your enlightenment is a blessing !


Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Tauqeer Ahmed]

At the time of death, the gross body dies. The soul, in the subtle body goes from one body to the next. The subtle body consists of soul, mind, intelligence and ego.



One will merge with Brahman only if he has achieved liberation from material bondage.

If he has attachment for his dog, wife, children etc., then he will think of them at the time of death. If one remembers about his dog while dying, he will get the next life of a dog.


.

yam yam vāpi smaran bhāvam
tyajaty ante kalevaram
tam tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitah​

"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail." [B.G. 8.6]

Dear Vrindavan Ji,
Many thanks for the insight in this complex issue. So we take it that if we remember God while dying we shall be God Himself in the next birth.
Please confirm.