Whats the difference?

[Dream Angel]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

 

[cardero]

Apparently when it comes to securing a place in heaven it is not what you do but who you know.

 

[Jaymes]

To my knowledge many of the Christians on this forum do not make judgements about whether or not someone will go to hell; that is up to God.

However I do know people that believe what you've said, and I find it inane and more likely to drive people from Christianity than to it.

 

[Quagmire]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

Why does this worry you?

Apparently when it comes to securing a place in heaven it is not what you do but who you know.

LOL!

 

[Moey]

I haven't understood how that could happen either. Someone once told me that if you need to choose a religion than choose to be catholic because to recieve forgivness all you have to do is confess and recieve absolution. Since i am not catholic i don't know this to be true...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Every one is a sinner ...and every one needs to truly repent.

We as men can not be Judges of this... But God Can.

I believe differently to my church on this next bit....

I believe every one's spirit returns to GOD.
However, to enter the presence of God you must be sin free.
God wipes away those parts of your spirit that are sinful... including sinful memories and inclinations, before you enter.

This leaves many with little if any self left.

This accomplishes two things...
Only the pure come to the presence of God.
It removes the need for a physical hell.


But then of course I am a Heretic.

 

[Katzpur]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

Ah, the beauty of LDS Christianity! Throw out the nonsense and start from scratch.

 

[Mister Emu]

Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

I leave such people as the former to the mercy of God...

The Bible, as I understand, proclaims that all are deserving of 'hell', but those who accept Jesus recieve salvation as a gift, no one 'earns' heaven...

 

[Tigress]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

Faith as a [sole] means of salvation, as opposed to actions and intent, is one of the reasons I left mainstream Protestant Christianity behind. It simply did not make sense to me that God would care more about whether or not you believe in him, or what you choose to call him. To me, it smacks of pompousness.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I am not prepared to speak on the behalf of christians, but I do know that Allah judges the heart of people. If a person lives their lives having not received guidance from Allah, then what was in their hearts that made Allah decide not to guide them? This obviously cannot be answered by me or anyone else. Only Allah knows what resides in the hearts of people.

I don't subscribe to the belief that it is only what you believe that saves you. I am a firm believer in the earning of paradise. It follows logic that to reap a reward or benefit one needs to make effort to obtain it. If I wish for anything good I need to make some efforts at working towards it. I can't expect that it will drop from the sky for me. This method works even in obtaining abstract things such as respect and love. So why would it be the case that paradise drops from the sky right into my lap because I sat somewhere and supposedly believed the right thing? What good is that belief if I do not act upon it? It's like telling my husband I love him, but never make any move to prove that. My words become empty after a while. Who's to say I really love him, and he would question it also if he never sees evidence of this "love" I have.

As I said, I am a firm believer in both faith and works, and that one is no good without the other.

This next thing might be off topic but I often wonder why is it that atheists even care about this issue. If it is true that one does not believe any of this, then there should be no concern for heaven or hell. If it's fake why worry about it? If a person tells you that they believe you will go to hell for one reason or another, why sweat it if you think hell is mythical? I know it wouldn't worry me if a group of people thought I would be eaten by the one-eyed purple people eater after death, simply because I think that's stupid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

Many Pagan religions teach differently. Mainly is thier is no hell, but many teach that you live your wrong doings in life through the perspective of those you harmed, and live it over and over until you have fully felt the pain you caused.

 

[joeboonda]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

First, one who has been "horrid" all their life has hardened their heart, and rejected God to the point the Holy Spirit no longer strives with them, so it HIGHLY unlikely such a person would even make a "death-bed" confession.

Second, we forget, GOD IS HOLY. Our best deeds are but as filthy rags to God, completely worthless for salvation. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. If we fail to keep the littlest commandment, Jesus says we are guilty of all. We are utterly without hope of attaining salvation on our own.

Thirdly, we forget, GOD IS LOVE. God provided a way for all the world to have salvation here and now, by sending His Son to pay for ALL our sins, through His shed blood on the cross. All who trust in Him, that His death paid for ALL our sins, are completely forgiven, their sins having been paid for by Jesus, blotted out, wahed away, removed as far as the east is from the west (infinity), remembered no more.

Fourthly, we forget, SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT. We did nothing to merit it, nor earn it, we only accept God's free provision: the death of His Son. When we trust Christ, all our sins are laid on Him, AND He gives us HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS in place of our own, which is worthless.

Fifthly, we forget, although salvation is totally free, ABUNDANT LIFE, HAPPINESS, REWARD HERE AND IN HEAVEN, AND POSITION IN GOD"S KINGDOM ARE NOT FREE. God corrects His children, sometimes to the point of death if they keep on.

Lastly, WE ALL INHERITED ADAM'S SINFUL NATURE, we are dead in our trespasses and sins. But just as Jesus rose from the dead, alive, so He quickens, (makes alive) all who believe in Him, we are born again. This is how God reconciles us to Himself, there is no other way, and no other name by which we may be saved but Jesus Christ, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

 

[Dream Angel]

Ah, the beauty of LDS Christianity! Throw out the nonsense and start from scratch.

Sorry I dont understand what you mean?

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

This next thing might be off topic but I often wonder why is it that atheists even care about this issue. If it is true that one does not believe any of this, then there should be no concern for heaven or hell. If it's fake why worry about it? If a person tells you that they believe you will go to hell for one reason or another, why sweat it if you think hell is mythical? I know it wouldn't worry me if a group of people thought I would be eaten by the one-eyed purple people eater after death, simply because I think that's stupid.

I think its the effect of what people believe has on them and their dealings with others while living that concerns Atheists.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Joeboonda, did not Jesus say that he could save only one out of a thousand, the rest 999 are destined for eternal hell?

 

[gingernater]

Joeboonda, did not Jesus say that he could save only one out of a thousand, the rest 999 are destined for eternal hell?

i dont no whos told you this buts its all rong. Jesus's power is not restricted on who he can save. He can save who ever he wants for hes already done it.

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry I dont understand what you mean?

I know, it was kind of cryptic. Sorry. In your opening post, you said:

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

What I was thinking when I posted my response is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in what could be described as the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell of any Christian denomination. While we're not universalists in the very strictest sense, we come pretty close. We also do not believe that the final curtain falls at the end of this life. We believe that there is an intermediate period of time between death and the resurrection when the human spirit, though separated from the body at death, continues to exist as a cognitive entity. People who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ during their livetimes will have that opportunity prior to the Last Judgment. Each of us will move into the spirit realm with the exact same personalities and character traits as we now have. The pure in heart, who sincerely want to come to a knowledge of those things God wants them to know, will be able to do just that. By the time we stand before God to be judged, all will be able to say that they were given a fair shot at hearing the message, comprehending it and being able to either accept or reject it.

My comment about throwing out the nonsense and starting from scratch was a reference to the general Apostasy predicted by the apostle Paul. We as Latter-day Saints believe that within a few years following the deaths of the apostles, the purity and simplicity of Christ's gospel was corrupted by the doctrines of men. As the Church grew further removed from the Church Christ established, an accurate knowledge of the Plan of Salvation was lost. In order for that knowledge to be restored, a "restitution of all things" (as also prophesied) had to take place. By "starting from scratch" I meant to say that a Reformation was insufficient to do this. Jesus Christ had to personally restore that which was lost. He had to re-establish His Church with the original doctrines He taught 2000 years ago.

Now I bet you're sorry you asked, huh?

 

[Dream Angel]

Now I bet you're sorry you asked, huh?

Not at all!

 

[IanAlmighty]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

The problem arises before you even saw it. There is no way to truly determine who is 'good' or 'bad.' Even if there was some cosmic rulebook for living your life, does eternal damnation sound like a good punishment for anything? Even murder? No. There's no justification for eternal suffering. (Although I know a few of you out there will be ready to pounce, saying "It are not punishment! It are choice.")

Furthermore, why do those who supposedly claim to not believe in God or spirituality of any sort cling to the concepts of 'good' and 'evil.' These are merely cop-out terms used when we don't want to see the real reason behind our problems.

Getting back to the point, heaven and hell are simply higher forms of a more underlying problem in our society's morality. Am I being too vague? Should I simply return to lurking this forum? Perhaps I should. Ta-ta.

Oh- and I almost forgot. Selfishness can be a virtue.

</unnecessary preaching of personal views>

 

[roli]

The one thing that worries me about religion is that you can have someone who has been good all their life, done good for others, not been selfish, basically followed the morality of what the bible teaches (just didnt quite believe in the bible as it was made by men) Yet "Christians" say that they will go to Hell just because they didnt believe in Jesus Christ! Then youll have another person who has been horrid all their life, hurt people etc. And then at the end turned to Jesus and your saying he will go to Heaven!!!

How does that do any good?

Who are you or me to understand what God's justice is,how he carries it out and how he judges ,I mean in your limited, finite mind is it possible to match or surpass the mind of God ,your ability to comprehend and understand the mind and actions of God are futile and vain even in there conception
It's not just believing in a deity that makes you morally good or accepted by God.
Wth God it's that your goodness is not about what you have done outwardly to man but what you have secretly done in the hidden chambers of your heart gainst God,if men only got that simple principal.
God calls man's goodness filthy rags and self rightousness.
No man can have God ,find God or talk to God except through and by His Son Jesus Christ
God sent his son to pay for man's sins',those who accept Jesus receive salvation,forgivenenss ,redemption and the ability to come to God and are declared righteous (right standing before God), not by what prayer they prayed or what church they went to or what good deeds they do or by what they did'nt do, but by trusting JESUS as the sacrifice for sins.
Man judges the outward appearance and actions of man,but God judges the heart.
We think a murderer is worse than a thief,to God sin is sin and forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus is why he sent his son.

Disobedience to God's law is what is in the heart of both the thief and the murderer, not any different than the housewife who stays at home and gossips and kills with her tongue.

We only elevate ourselves into lofty positions of self rightoeusness when we look at others outward sin,but disregard the sin that lies within the heart of everyone of our souls.

Our job is not to think we have the right to chanllenge God in his decisions, but to challenge ourselves according to his law and ask ourselves,if he judges us according to the 10 commands,how we will fair, this should be our greatest concern.