What was the nature of Jesus?

[Sultan Of Swing]

1. The Jews did like Jesus for many reasons. Some of them were that Jesus kept on telling them that they were corrupt and not keeping the law. They didnt like that Jesus called himself the son of God. They didnt like the fact that their God would have a son thru a woman. So many things.

2. John 17. Jesus was in the mind of God before creation. Bible is clear on that. God created everything. God knew he would have a son. He knew that Adam & Eve would sin. Therefor, He would have to bring a son into the world to take away sin.

Where is the Bible clear on that? What in John 17 or 8 makes you think existence in the mind of God and not existence itself? What glory did Jesus have at that point?

 

[Wharton]

If we accept the notion of the trinity we are forced to accept the fact that God misrepresented Himself constantly about being a man and being mortal and having the capacity to sin and actualy dying and sacrificing His life and coming back from the dead. ... when God states that He is incaplable of being seen by mortal men, of being tempted or dying. If we limit the greatness of the Creator to humanity, we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves, as well as rendering the challenges of Jesus and his victory as utterly shallow and meaningless. Every form of false doctrine elevates mortal man and degrades our Creator.

What is not incarnated is not redeemed. From conception to death. God did die on the cross. Jesus experienced everything that is human. How else can He judge you fairly, as an equal/peer?

 

[moorea944]

Where is the Bible clear on that? What in John 17 or 8 makes you think existence in the mind of God and not existence itself? What glory did Jesus have at that point?

I think I made a mistake on my post. I wrote that the Jews liked.... I should have written that Jews DID NOT like.....

 

[moorea944]

What is not incarnated is not redeemed. From conception to death. God did die on the cross. Jesus experienced everything that is human. How else can He judge you fairly, as an equal/peer?

Great question! Easy anwer too.
First of all, God did not die on the cross. Think about it. God died?? Bible says that He cant die.

[Jesus experienced everything that is human. How else can He judge you fairly, as an equal/peer?]
I totally agree! Jesus experienced that because he was human. Same nature of the flesh. So many verses tell us that too. Just one is Hebrews 2. NEVER in the bible does it say that God is coming down to earth. It says that Christ will be the Son of God AND he will be David's son too. He will come from David, from the tribe of Judah.

Some people even believe that Jesus raised himself off the cross even though scripture tells us that God raise him from the dead. We really need to ask ourselves, "what am I believing in, my beliefs or the bible?"

 

[AllanV]

Jesus died on the cross because God is an energizing Spirit.
But Jesus maintained a nature different to Adam.
The nature of Jesus was gentle and held with in it Love and God energized the Love in Jesus.
Adam energized by his own self and the power behind what is seen in a personality. Every one reads each others personality and assesses and responds. This is based on biology and the natural senses and instincts.

Jesus resisted energizing his own self with its own personality and a nature was produced that was entirely Love with its attributes and God powerfully energized this.

This power of God in the energized nature with Love resurrected Jesus to immortality.

 

[Wharton]

First of all, God did not die on the cross. Think about it. God died?? Bible says that He cant die.

God died on the cross or else death is not redeemed. From conception to death, all phases of human nature are redeemed by the death of Jesus on the cross. You can't leave death out of the game plan.

 

[moorea944]

God died on the cross or else death is not redeemed. From conception to death, all phases of human nature are redeemed by the death of Jesus on the cross. You can't leave death out of the game plan.

Doesnt the bible say that Jesus died on the cross and then God raised him up? Why would you rephrase that to your own words and beliefs?? No where in the bible does it say that God died. That totally degrades our creator!!! God cannot die. So why would you even say that?!!?!

 

[moorea944]

This is something to think about too. John 17 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Is this verse saying that in order to have eternal life, we need to really know God and Jesus is? The right way? Yes.

 

[Wharton]

Doesnt the bible say that Jesus died on the cross and then God raised him up? Why would you rephrase that to your own words and beliefs?? No where in the bible does it say that God died. That totally degrades our creator!!! God cannot die. So why would you even say that?!!?!

It all depends on who you believe Jesus to be. If you believe him to be God/man in one person, then that person, both God and man, died on the cross. You can't separate the natures. A mere man that dies on the cross has no sacrificial value to the infinite. BTW, to die does not mean go out of existence.

John 19:30

* When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.”q And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.

 

[AllanV]

At 26 I had an experience of God and in it the mind of an immortal was shown with much knowledge. I was totally energized, partially collapsed and had difficulty breathing. There was a comparison at every point and this showed how mine did not measure up in the nature and personality that was produced, but the immortal mind is attainable.
Many years have gone by and my understanding is that Jesus resisted natural biological instinctive nature.
He resisted and won and the nature is extremely gentle and can not be comprehended or understood from the biologically driven mind.
I have experienced the Nature of Jesus and been fully energized by God. It was maintained for more than 3 days but a part of my old nature became obvious and the purity left me over several months. I was very vulnerable at this stage. It took 3 weeks of dedication to change, to be transformed by the renewing of my mind.
I didn't understand the scriptures that related to mind change until the experience occurred.
Jesus died to create a pattern of mind and nature that could be understood and kind of transposed into individuals that would try to overcome.

 

[moorea944]

It all depends on who you believe Jesus to be. If you believe him to be God/man in one person, then that person, both God and man, died on the cross. You can't separate the natures. A mere man that dies on the cross has no sacrificial value to the infinite. BTW, to die does not mean go out of existence.

John 19:30

* When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.”q And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.

Again, the bible says that God cannot die.
Jesus was a man , but not a mere man. God was his Father. Jesus had to die and to be raised by his Father (God). If God died, then who raised him up? And you can separate the natures. That's evident. When Jesus was on earth, mortal, his nature was a sin nature, like Adam, like us. That is different from God. God does not have a nature like that. Jesus of course is different now, he is immortal, in heaven , like his Father. And scripture tells us that by one man came the resurruction.

And to die, does mean to go out of existence. Jesus gave up his "spirit" or breath in Hebrew. That's all, he died. He was dead, until, he was raised by his Father. So many verses through out scripture that talks about death. There is nothing in death. Paul says that we have hope in the resurrection.

 

[Wharton]

Again, the bible says that God cannot die.
Jesus was a man , but not a mere man. God was his Father. Jesus had to die and to be raised by his Father (God). If God died, then who raised him up? And you can separate the natures. That's evident. When Jesus was on earth, mortal, his nature was a sin nature, like Adam, like us. That is different from God. God does not have a nature like that. Jesus of course is different now, he is immortal, in heaven , like his Father. And scripture tells us that by one man came the resurruction.

And to die, does mean to go out of existence. Jesus gave up his "spirit" or breath in Hebrew. That's all, he died. He was dead, until, he was raised by his Father. So many verses through out scripture that talks about death. There is nothing in death. Paul says that we have hope in the resurrection.

So you're implying that only a part of Jesus died on the cross? He wasn't fully dead? You're dividing/separating the natures? Only the human nature died on the cross? If so, you have no atonement.

So if you believe that Jesus was just a man or a' special' man, there was no need for his death. The death of a man can not atone to the infinite.

So where do you go, if you go out of existence when you die?

 

[Johnlove]

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throught scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit or false doctrine. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for other to follow.
Deut 18v15-18, Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messiah. This prophecy is directly quoted of Jesus in Acts 3v22.

We read of the promise that God would "raise up" (not desend) a prophet.

Romans 1v1-3, ....... Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Paul is not telling people about a triune God. Or that Jesus is God.

Psalm 89v19 and verses 26-33 of this Psalm clearly confirm verse 19 should be understood in reference to the Messiah. Here the Messiah is chosen "out of the people". We read that God will "make him" His firtborn.

1 Cor. 15v21-22 We are cautioned to understand that the resurrection came by man.

Hebrews 2v16-17. Jesus was made like his brethren in every respect. Once again, Jesus had an origin. He was made (not re-made)

2 John 1 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Jesus is the co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accept the concept of the trinity. And he also needed salvation.

Jesus never once expresses to his disciples that he is really God masquerading as a human being. Why would that be..... if that understanding was the truth? Jesus tells everyone he gave up his LIFE (not just his disguise body or his fake human nature charade). An immortal cannot die, therefore, if Christ were an immortal claiming he was sacrificing his life and not just a mortal disguise, then he lied. If we accept the doctrine of the trinity we most conclude that Jesus could not possibly give up a life that was immortal but had to be limited to only shedding the painful and very limited mortal shell he had temporarily inhabited, just like an overcoat.

If we accept the notion of the trinity we are forced to accept the fact that God misrepresented Himself constantly about being a man and being mortal and having the capacity to sin and actualy dying and sacrificing His life and coming back from the dead. ... when God states that He is incaplable of being seen by mortal men, of being tempted or dying. If we limit the greatness of the Creator to humanity, we are diminishing the glory of God and making God a reflection of ourselves, as well as rendering the challenges of Jesus and his victory as utterly shallow and meaningless. Every form of false doctrine elevates mortal man and degrades our Creator.

You a man trying to comprehend God? You have to believe there is a beginning to everything, is that not right?

God had no beginning, how does your human logic comprehend that?

Jesus was conceived by God. Do you know of any other human that was conceived by God? If God is one’s father does that not make him or her God?

Jesus personally has told me he is God, and who am I to question our Lord?

I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by my name. A Christian the lives God’s Word will be called out by his or her name by Jesus, and they will never doubt that Jesus is God.

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

 

[moorea944]

I would be happy to answer your questions

1. [So you're implying that only a part of Jesus died on the cross? He wasn't fully dead? You're dividing/separating the natures? Only the human nature died on the cross? If so, you have no atonement.]

I'm saying that Jesus died on the cross. Not half or part of him. He died on the cross, he was dead. He gave up his breath. I"m not dividing anything.

2. [So if you believe that Jesus was just a man or a' special' man, there was no need for his death. The death of a man can not atone to the infinite.]
Bible says he was a man and there was need for his death. He had to put his sin nature to death. When we die, we make God right. Jesus's death didnt atone for God, the atonement was for us.

Christ is our representative. He identified himself with human nature in life and in death. And we must identify ourselves with him. With him we must die; and with him we shall be raised to a life over which death has no power.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: if we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Tim. 2:11,12).

The fact that Christ died for our sakes is an important part of NT teaching. But let us get one thing clear, although Christ died for us, he did not die instead of us. As we have seen, Christ's followers have to die with him. This is the meaning of baptism " . . . our old man is crucified with him" (Rom. 6:6).

3. [So where do you go, if you go out of existence when you die?]
You dont go anywhere. Why do you have to go somewhere? Cant you just be dead?

Bible says that when your dead, you cant praise God, or love, hate or remember anything, etc... There is nothing in death. You cease to exist. You rot in the ground. We wait for the resurrection when Christ returns. So you would have it that we are judged at death? Bible tells us that we will be judged at his return.

 

[moorea944]

You a man trying to comprehend God? You have to believe there is a beginning to everything, is that not right?

God had no beginning, how does your human logic comprehend that?

Jesus was conceived by God. Do you know of any other human that was conceived by God? If God is one’s father does that not make him or her God?

Jesus personally has told me he is God, and who am I to question our Lord?

I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by my name. A Christian the lives God’s Word will be called out by his or her name by Jesus, and they will never doubt that Jesus is God.

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

[You a man trying to comprehend God?]
What? I'm not trying to comprehend God. What are you talking about...

[You have to believe there is a beginning to everything, is that not right?]
Well, not true. There is a beginning for some things. Not for God, but for us. Our beginnging.

[God had no beginning, how does your human logic comprehend that?]
I know God had no beginning......

[Jesus was conceived by God. Do you know of any other human that was conceived by God? If God is one’s father does that not make him or her God?]
Yes, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But that doesnt make him God. There is only one God. Not two. Jesus was also born of a woman. People address Jesus as a man or the Son of God or the son of man. But NEVER God.

[Jesus personally has told me he is God, and who am I to question our Lord?]
Jesus has told you that he is God?

[I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by my name. A Christian the lives God’s Word will be called out by his or her name by Jesus, and they will never doubt that Jesus is God.]
I'm happy for you.

 

[Johnlove]

[You a man trying to comprehend God?]
What? I'm not trying to comprehend God. What are you talking about...

[You have to believe there is a beginning to everything, is that not right?]
Well, not true. There is a beginning for some things. Not for God, but for us. Our beginnging.

[God had no beginning, how does your human logic comprehend that?]
I know God had no beginning......

[Jesus was conceived by God. Do you know of any other human that was conceived by God? If God is one’s father does that not make him or her God?]
Yes, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But that doesnt make him God. There is only one God. Not two. Jesus was also born of a woman. People address Jesus as a man or the Son of God or the son of man. But NEVER God.

[Jesus personally has told me he is God, and who am I to question our Lord?]
Jesus has told you that he is God?

[I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by my name. A Christian the lives God’s Word will be called out by his or her name by Jesus, and they will never doubt that Jesus is God.]
I'm happy for you.

Are you happy for me?

Your response to my post tells me you don’t believe me.

You chose to give me a sarcastic response, instead of answering my questions.

You seem to like your understanding of God, and don’t want anyone to question your beliefs, which may show you just how wrong you are.

 

[Wharton]

I would be happy to answer your questions

1. [So you're implying that only a part of Jesus died on the cross? He wasn't fully dead? You're dividing/separating the natures? Only the human nature died on the cross? If so, you have no atonement.]

I'm saying that Jesus died on the cross. Not half or part of him. He died on the cross, he was dead. He gave up his breath. I"m not dividing anything.

2. [So if you believe that Jesus was just a man or a' special' man, there was no need for his death. The death of a man can not atone to the infinite.]
Bible says he was a man and there was need for his death. He had to put his sin nature to death. When we die, we make God right. Jesus's death didnt atone for God, the atonement was for us.

Christ is our representative. He identified himself with human nature in life and in death. And we must identify ourselves with him. With him we must die; and with him we shall be raised to a life over which death has no power.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: if we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Tim. 2:11,12).

The fact that Christ died for our sakes is an important part of NT teaching. But let us get one thing clear, although Christ died for us, he did not die instead of us. As we have seen, Christ's followers have to die with him. This is the meaning of baptism " . . . our old man is crucified with him" (Rom. 6:6).

3. [So where do you go, if you go out of existence when you die?]
You dont go anywhere. Why do you have to go somewhere? Cant you just be dead?

Bible says that when your dead, you cant praise God, or love, hate or remember anything, etc... There is nothing in death. You cease to exist. You rot in the ground. We wait for the resurrection when Christ returns. So you would have it that we are judged at death? Bible tells us that we will be judged at his return.

So you don't believe Jesus is God? That would explain your position. And if such, you have no atonement. No redemption.

 

[kjv4me2you]

How do you see it as foreknowledge from the text itself? There's nothing in John 8:58 that suggests that. Why would the Jews try to stone Him over that?

Furthermore, what was the glory Jesus had with the Father before the creation of the world if it was just foreknowledge? (John 17:5)

 

[kjv4me2you]

How do you see it as foreknowledge from the text itself? There's nothing in John 8:58 that suggests that. Why would the Jews try to stone Him over that?

Furthermore, what was the glory Jesus had with the Father before the creation of the world if it was just foreknowledge? (John 17:5)

CHRIST JESUS TEACHES THE OUR FATHER AND THINE BE THE KINGDOM AND THE POWER AND THE GLORY,FOR EVER. AMEN.
(Mat 6:13 KJV) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

The only way to receive glory from YHWH-YaH is to give glory due YHWH-YaH's name and receiving glory from YHWH-YaH is receiving the spirit of glory. It is not the Glory that belongs solely to HIM whoses name is YHWH-YaH Elohim Shaddai.

(Rev 15:3 KJV) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great andmarvellous are thy works, YHWH-YaH Elohim Shaddai; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

(Rev 15:4 KJV) Who shall not fear thee, O YHWH-YaH and glorify thy name-YHWH-YaH? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

YHWH-YaH GIVES GLORY BUT NOT THE GLORY THAT IS DUE HIS NAME YHWH-YaH.
(Isa 48:11 KJV) For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

(1 Chr 16:29 KJV) Give unto YHWH the glory due unto His name: bring an offering, and come before Him: worship YHWH in the beauty of holiness.

HIS NAME IS YAH
(Psa 68:4 KJV) Sing unto God-Elohim, sing praises to His-Elohim's name-YaH: extol Elohim that rideth upon the heavens by His name YaH and rejoice before Him.

THE HONOR
For God to honor God amounts to NOTHING according to Jesus. (John 8:54 KJV) Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

If Jesus was God then as God he was honoring himself, which according to Jesus was nothing , but of course we know scripture does not declare Jesus to be God.

God was honoring His Son and later God would glorify His Son.

THE FOREORDAINED GLORY OF CHRIST

(2 Cor 8:23 KJV) .......the glory of Christ.

THE BLOOD OF CHRIST JESUS
(1 Pet 1:19 KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

IT IS THE BLOOD OF CHRIST OR THE BLOOD OF CHRIST JESUS AND NOT SOLELY THE BLOOD OF JESUS.
(Heb 10:19 KJV) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of ChristG129 Jesus'

(1 Pet 1:20 KJV) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

(1 Pet 1:21 KJV) Who (through CHRIST Jesus) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

God raised Christ Jesus as the glorified second man through Christ. (1 Cor 15:47 KJV) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the master from heaven.

(1 Cor 15:57 KJV) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our master Jesus Christ.

(Heb 9:24 KJV) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the
true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

(Heb 9:25 KJV) Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

(Heb 9:26 KJV) For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

(Heb 9:27 KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

(Heb 9:28 KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Would you know His name YHWH-YaH if you saw Him in heaven?

willyah

 

[AllanV]

Jesus has what is called a divine nature. This is totally possible to experience now.
It is more gentle than can be imagined or comprehended in own mind.
The natural mind must be found and all faults seen in own personality and these must be thrust away from. The will is used and when complete the gentle nature is apparent and God will energize the Love in that nature. This is an exquisite energy within the heart and chest with the mind being total free of strange thoughts, imaginations, fear. The mind is immersed in total awareness and it is like thinking out of another mind.
When interacting with humans they are unable to find anything aggressive or demanding or any of the usual human traits that bring conflict.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Future immortality that is living forever is the potential.