What should we do about corrupt Relions?

[Pure-Truth]

This thread is in response to Abuse and Corruption within Religious Institutions..

The steady incline of Religious Institutes abusing their very own claimed morality is cause enough for concern, so what do we do about these institutions?
Close them down? Put them on notice? or do we Tolerate ands allow them to continue on, Now the argument with out a doubt will - time and time again come up that, its the fault of individuals within the institution that such immorality rears itself..

But my point is, how is it that such immorality is able to exist and even persist in some cases for thousands of years, within such institutions, when they are the ones that have defined the very moral lines that are being violated? One would think religious leaders that have been appointed on the bases of being morally pure should be immune to crossing such lines, if indeed the referred religion is the one and only right path in attaining a higher standard of morality, and when I refer to the right path, I refer to the inference to what all religions claim, in that they are the right path to a higher morality..

Which to me points out, if their leaders are prone to violating defined moral lines, then that religion is in fact not the right path, as had it been the right path, their leaders should be prime examples of defined morality..
Obviously we cant close these religious Institutes down as their are to many individuals that have much the same morality, as all the institutions subscribers base much of their reasoning much the same as their leaders have preceding them, what is implied by me here is that what ever information is provided in the attainment to a higher morality may in fact promote the crossing of moral lines, and if we look to the headlines we have the evidence, YES?..

what say you? Oh!? And be Nice to each other..

Cheers,

Pete..

 

[challupa]

Well I for one would like to see more accountability used when said individuals in said institutions are caught doing something that is legally wrong. I don't like to see priests moved to another jurisdiction when there is a complaint about sexual wrongdoing. That is happening from what I hear and it is wrong. Just my opinion...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well I for one would like to see more accountability used when said individuals in said institutions are caught doing something that is legally wrong. I don't like to see priests moved to another jurisdiction when there is a complaint about sexual wrongdoing. That is happening from what I hear and it is wrong. Just my opinion...

I agree.

If individuals are guilty of crimes (including the crime of covering up a crime), then prosecute them. If the organization itself has committed a crime, then prosecute it the same way that a corporation would be prosecuted.

 

[Mister Emu]

Those who have committed crimes should face the justice systems... any cover up of crime should also be investigated and acted upon...

 

[gnomon]

This thread is in response to Abuse and Corruption within Religious Institutions..

The steady incline of Religious Institutes abusing their very own claimed morality is cause enough for concern, so what do we do about these institutions?
Close them down? Put them on notice? or do we Tolerate ands allow them to continue on, Now the argument with out a doubt will - time and time again come up that, its the fault of individuals within the institution that such immorality rears itself..

But my point is, how is it that such immorality is able to exist and even persist in some cases for thousands of years, within such institutions, when they are the ones that have defined the very moral lines that are being violated? One would think religious leaders that have been appointed on the bases of being morally pure should be immune to crossing such lines, if indeed the referred religion is the one and only right path in attaining a higher standard of morality, and when I refer to the right path, I refer to the inference to what all religions claim, in that they are the right path to a higher morality..

Which to me points out, if their leaders are prone to violating defined moral lines, then that religion is in fact not the right path, as had it been the right path, their leaders should be prime examples of defined morality..
Obviously we cant close these religious Institutes down as their are to many individuals that have much the same morality, as all the institutions subscribers base much of their reasoning much the same as their leaders have preceding them, what is implied by me here is that what ever information is provided in the attainment to a higher morality may in fact promote the crossing of moral lines, and if we look to the headlines we have the evidence, YES?..

what say you? Oh!? And be Nice to each other..

Cheers,

Pete..

I can't tell if you are describing religious or political institutions.

I say apply what the previous three posters stated to both.

 

[Pure-Truth]

Well I for one would like to see more accountability used when said individuals in said institutions are caught doing something that is legally wrong. I don't like to see priests moved to another jurisdiction when there is a complaint about sexual wrongdoing. That is happening from what I hear and it is wrong. Just my opinion...

I agree, but what if this behaviour is the result of the religious institutes very own concepts, constructs, restrictions, methods, teachings, and or perhaps way of life passed on that actually may be perpetuating the problem?

I know this may seem at first way out of the box reasoning, but what if this is the case? I mean lets take a serious look at which religions are susceptible to such evil?
and why is it prominent to them?
I think what we should do is to classify any religion that has such flaws immediately as a negative Sect rather than a tax free Institution, and I would go as far to suggest the more violations by the negative Sects participants, the higher the taxes for that institution!
I see this may be the only way to clean up this mess..

Cheers,

Pete..

 

[zenzero]

Friend Pure-Truth,

What should we do about corrupt Relions?

Corruption starts with our own mind [thoughts].
If our minds [thoughts] are PURE then we see PURITY everywhere.
It gets reflected back.

The only way OUT is to throw out CURRUPTION from our very own minds as this will slowly refect in those around and then the family, society etc.

Love & rgds

 

[enchanted_one1975]

It is my belief that if members of a corrupt church would skip making a donation for just one week to make a statement the church would have to listen. The same people will participate in national gas boycotts and stuff to protest gas prices. I'd dare any one community, though, to make it a point to cease donations to the church for one week after any member gets caught doing something immoral.

Dang that is such a good reply I almost feel like making it into its own thread...

 

[gnomon]

I agree, but what if this behaviour is the result of the religious institutes very own concepts, constructs, restrictions, methods, teachings, and or perhaps way of life passed on that actually may be perpetuating the problem?

I know this may seem at first way out of the box reasoning, but what if this is the case? I mean lets take a serious look at which religions are susceptible to such evil?
and why is it prominent to them?
I think what we should do is to classify any religion that has such flaws immediately as a negative Sect rather than a tax free Institution, and I would go as far to suggest the more violations by the negative Sects participants, the higher the taxes for that institution!
I see this may be the only way to clean up this mess..

Cheers,

Pete..

Be diligent. Be smart.

Something world leaders are not doing. Such as allowing blasphemy laws or writs of some form to guide world leadership. Now, if someone wants to criticize something like FGM, other world leaders say watch out, you might be criticizing religion and we can't have that.:cover:

The best way to fight specifically religious institutions or individuals who use religion in a corrupt form, which would depend upon the defining values of the religion, is to apply an equitable legal system. No one gets any excuses.

 

[Pure-Truth]

Friend Pure-Truth,



Corruption starts with our own mind [thoughts].
If our minds [thoughts] are PURE then we see PURITY everywhere.
It gets reflected back.

The only way OUT is to throw out CURRUPTION from our very own minds as this will slowly reflect in those around and then the family, society etc.

Love & rgds

But if "one" is only able to perceive purity, then how will "one" be able to perceive a naked whimpering child being violated by the naked leader who stands behind the Pedo-Stall or Pull-Pit violating said naked whimpering child?

Such an act is not a pure act of Purity.. of course we all know "one" will observe it, but how will "one" be able to perceive it - if all "one" is able to perceive is purity?
will such ignorance of such an evil be a good thing? I think not..

Having said that, is this how and why most such abuse and or violations continue on to this day?

You know Zenzero, you may have pointed out something here?, as I am sure no one in their right mind would ever allow such ignorance, but what if this is indeed the case? I mean how else are sect leaders able to marry girls that are not even women with the full support of the child's parents..

Cheers,

Pete..

 

[zenzero]

Friend Pure-Truth,
You missed the point.
You are going to the extent of going into such a church which is not pure, forget sending your son. Understand that What you are gets reflected and in that reflection one sees his own image. Similarly the impurity of even a church will be visible to a pure person and such men prefer to built their churches inside their own hearts and have no use for a separate physical church.
The other way is to allow social justice system which we as part of society have made for our ownselves have to be put into use to mete out justice to culprits / sinners / offenders / etc.
Love & rgds

 

[Pure-Truth]

Be diligent. Be smart.

Something world leaders are not doing. Such as allowing blasphemy laws or writs of some form to guide world leadership. Now, if someone wants to criticize something like FGM, other world leaders say watch out, you might be criticizing religion and we can't have that.:cover:

The best way to fight specifically religious institutions or individuals who use religion in a corrupt form, which would depend upon the defining values of the religion, is to apply an equitable legal system. No one gets any excuses.

That simply will not be possible where Politicians are supported by such religious groups, in fact such localities are going to end up being held way behind all the other localities that don't have that same flawed political structure in its constitution..

Such Localities that are suspect to politicians having to consider the whims of religion first and foremost are not so free once this is considered, YES?
Ya really gotta feel sorry for those who come under such a bad political structure, YES?

cheers,

Pete..

 

[Pure-Truth]

Friend Pure-Truth,
You missed the point.
You are going to the extent of going into such a church which is not pure, forget sending your son. Understand that What you are gets reflected and in that reflection one sees his own image. Similarly the impurity of even a church will be visible to a pure person and such men prefer to built their churches inside their own hearts and have no use for a separate physical church.
The other way is to allow social justice system which we as part of society have made for our own selves have to be put into use to mete out justice to culprits / sinners / offenders / etc.
Love & rgds

Wait! what? but I ?:sad: I was agreeing with you, and I was reasoning those religions that are corrupt and as such their members are more than likely not that far from the same..

Cheers,

Pete..

 

[challupa]

I agree, but what if this behaviour is the result of the religious institutes very own concepts, constructs, restrictions, methods, teachings, and or perhaps way of life passed on that actually may be perpetuating the problem?

I know this may seem at first way out of the box reasoning, but what if this is the case? I mean lets take a serious look at which religions are susceptible to such evil?
and why is it prominent to them?
I think what we should do is to classify any religion that has such flaws immediately as a negative Sect rather than a tax free Institution, and I would go as far to suggest the more violations by the negative Sects participants, the higher the taxes for that institution!
I see this may be the only way to clean up this mess..

Cheers,

Pete..

Well I suppose it very well could be that the institutions and their beliefs are what is contributing to some of the problems. I think those on the outside looking in can see that fairly clearly. An example of a problem within some insitutions is partially caused by a belief that celibecy is a divine quality. On earth, it is a repression of natural urges which in many cases can go dreadfully wrong. What to do about insitutions that hold such things as ideal, I really don't know, other than persecuting to the fullest extent of the law when the illegal acts are made known. I don't think religion should be exempt from paying taxes, never have, but that is just my opinion. They would argue that they give back to the community and taxing the church would take away from that. However, the community sometimes (not always of course) tends to be only those who believe and are a member of that religion. Therefore not taxing would only benefit the members of that church in that instance. It's a dilemma for sure, because religion is not black and white. It does some good and does some harm. In a sense it's not unlike most institutions.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Pure-Truth,

It appears that we both missed each other somewhere, earlier!
Now we are also agreeing that corruption starts from the self; right!

Love & rgds

 

[Mister Emu]

I know this may seem at first way out of the box reasoning, but what if this is the case? I mean lets take a serious look at which religions are susceptible to such evil?

Any situations in which adults have authority over minors gets abused... families, teachers, clergy, military recruiters etc.

It is my belief that if members of a corrupt church would skip making a donation for just one week to make a statement the church would have to listen.

It would not be just the institution that was damaged by that though. Religious organizations are some of the most charitable ones on earth...

An example of a problem within some insitutions is partially caused by a belief that celibecy is a divine quality. On earth, it is a repression of natural urges which in many cases can go dreadfully wrong.

Celibacy does not lead to pedophilia...

 

[Nothing]

If you think a religion is corrupt then you should not attend their services. If a religion claims they have a monopoly on the one true path, they are lying, to you and probably to themselves. Another reason not to attend there services.
Who is this "we" that should do something about it?
Do you suggest that "we" should not attend their services? Good luck with that. You have a problem following those who declare them selves "right"? I can empathize with you on that. But what is the difference when you ask us to join you in declaring these institutions "wrong"?
Forget about right and wrong. They are entirely subjective and do nothing but keep you from the inner peace that your heart desires.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Friend Pure-Truth,



Corruption starts with our own mind [thoughts].
If our minds [thoughts] are PURE then we see PURITY everywhere.
It gets reflected back.

The only way OUT is to throw out CURRUPTION from our very own minds as this will slowly refect in those around and then the family, society etc.

Love & rgds

purity is too vague a word. please define what you mean by purity (because purity means freedom from anything different). pure poison isn't good for the poisoned body, while corrupted (diluted) poison could be handled and tolerated. i think in the case of religion (especially one that fosters pedophiles and guilt-mongers) i think the more corruption we have the better, based on the real definition of purity.

so what is this "purity"? is it universal to humanity? is it "moral purity"? and if that's the case where is that dowsing rod pointing these days?

 

[Dunemeister]

But my point is, how is it that such immorality is able to exist and even persist in some cases for thousands of years, within such institutions, when they are the ones that have defined the very moral lines that are being violated? One would think religious leaders that have been appointed on the bases of being morally pure should be immune to crossing such lines, if indeed the referred religion is the one and only right path in attaining a higher standard of morality, and when I refer to the right path, I refer to the inference to what all religions claim, in that they are the right path to a higher morality..

1. The line between good and evil runs through every person.

2. There are no religious leaders who have been appointed on the basis of being morally pure (meaning perfect, utterly unsullied). At least, I know of none.

Which to me points out, if their leaders are prone to violating defined moral lines, then that religion is in fact not the right path, as had it been the right path, their leaders should be prime examples of defined morality..

Obviously we cant close these religious Institutes down as their are to many individuals that have much the same morality, as all the institutions subscribers base much of their reasoning much the same as their leaders have preceding them, what is implied by me here is that what ever information is provided in the attainment to a higher morality may in fact promote the crossing of moral lines, and if we look to the headlines we have the evidence, YES?..

:slap:

 

[cardero]

What should we do about corrupt Relions?

I suggest a 9-member Star Chamber panel consisting of men and women of no faith. They will judge and pass sentence in God's absence.