what makes a scripture true ?

[Caladan]

The context of time and place make it true.
The story of the exodus may not be 100% historically accurate, but its core message expressed a collective truth of a passage from bondage to freedom. In addition the story itself may be rooted in historical movements of people in the Levant. Expecting the narrative itself to be accurate to the letter, perhaps is in itself flawed in that it lacks appreciation of the mental processes the scribes labored to transmit into the text.

 

[waitasec]

Scripture seeks to inspire a covenant with godliness. THe Exodus is 'true' irrespective of its historicity.

this...

a frubal for you


edit: dang it i can't!!!!
apparently i've been too stingy
errrrr

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

edit: dang it i can't!!!!
apparently i've been too stingy
errrrr

Its the thought that counts. :hug:

 

[heretic]

I don't take anything for granted or accept anything unless I have revelations about it. It is our experiences and revelations which gives us strong beliefs and not just the scripture. Anyone who just relies on the scripture is taking a blind path. He is neither a true philosopher nor a true religious scholar.

I have a problem with this makes me confused , there are many beliefs , many religions , many spiritual paths , and all seem to provide spiritual relief and fulfillment , but this is not enough , human have several sides , let's assume spirit or heart , mind , and body and to reach the maximum fulfillment the three sides should be met with actions to fill , now what I need is a guide or a book that suits all human sides. instructions and actions set by a book should fill my spiritual needs , should suit and tolerate my body needs and should be logical to my mind .

Even in this 21st century if God wants to reveal himself through a scripture through the means of a religious prophet I don't think he is going to talk about molecular biology or particle physics. He is going to talk about his numinous world because according to religion our empirical world of science is only a state of mind, it doesn't exist physically out there.

I don't expect a book or God to talk about a science , this is man's mission , but I won't believe a book states that our world is a state of mind and doesn't exist physically , this is the point I'm talking about ,a book should meet our perception of the world .

 

[heretic]

How about one more.

6-doesn't conflict with itself.

Ok , I can add
6- doesn't contain and conflicts

 

[Pleroma]

I have a problem with this makes me confused , there are many beliefs , many religions , many spiritual paths , and all seem to provide spiritual relief and fulfillment , but this is not enough , human have several sides , let's assume spirit or heart , mind , and body and to reach the maximum fulfillment the three sides should be met with actions to fill , now what I need is a guide or a book that suits all human sides. instructions and actions set by a book should fill my spiritual needs , should suit and tolerate my body needs and should be logical to my mind .

Why do you think the available scriptures along with oral traditions is not meeting all our needs both spiritual and physical in a logical way? You should really re-examine it then, it has everything to meet our needs and guide us in the right direction.

I don't expect a book or God to talk about a science , this is man's mission , but I won't believe a book states that our world is a state of mind and doesn't exist physically , this is the point I'm talking about ,a book should meet our perception of the world .

This world exists to make us prepare for spiritual realization, it doesn't physically exist, if we were not caught up in this virtual reality then there would be no reason to achieve spiritual enlightenment. In religion we begin thinking that we are ignorant and not by thinking that we are all knowing in the beginning itself.

 

[heretic]

Personal revelation.
Personal experience.

Tough to deny the reality that one experiences for themselves.
Problem is you get a lot of people who say a lot of things to convince themselves of having had religious/spiritual experiences.

Just as with everyday reality, people confuse actual perception with the image of reality they create in their head. So common experiences take on supernatural overtones. I suspect a lot of people don't even realize they are doing this. That is why you get a lot of un-credible personal testimony. A lot of different claims about God.

Still everyone has to deal with the reality that seems apparent to them. So personal experience/revelations which seem to support or provide understanding for various passages justify to the individual the source of those passages such that they begin to trust/have faith in that source.

I think that personal revelation and experiences are a consequence of mental perception , one has to have a knowledge about superior being , and about his characteristics to build an image of that being and then build a relationship with him.

personal revelation may be before but will be very much subjective to the person , to his powers and weaknesses , this opens the door to confusion about the source is it myself or God .

 

[heretic]

Well, the bible fails on at least four of your five constraints. Therefore, it's not too difficult to arrive at the correct conclusion that the bible is merely a vast compilation of ancient myths, legends and folklore. The idea that it is "God's word" is simply not supported by any evidence whatsoever. It does contain pearls of wisdom here and there and is worth studying but we must deny any sort of divine inspiration. We deists believe that the Creator only reveals Himself through His creation; the beauty and grandeur of the universe and natural world.

interesting , actually true , I have a big problem with the trusty of the bible.

 

[heretic]

Your font is too difficult to read. Pick another, like the default font, and you'll probably get more responses. Your choice, of course.

thanks , I will

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Faith make it true for you.

There is no universal proof of "Truth"

 

[JohnLeo]

interesting , actually true , I have a big problem with the trusty of the bible.

it is a fact that at some point in their lives, intelligent, insightful people arrive at the conclusion that the bible is mostly mythology and that the theologies of the world's major religions consist of error. Unfortunately at this point these folks become either agnostic or atheistic and conclude that no deity or afterlife exists. Sadly, this is an erroneous conclusion. Based on scientific evidence accumulated over the last 170 years the proposition that the death of the brain puts an end to conscious experience appears to be false.

 

[Pleroma]

Based on scientific evidence accumulated over the last 170 years the proposition that the death of the brain puts an end to conscious experience appears to be false.

What evidence are you talking about? Can you cite them? You mean Near Death experiences?

 

[camanintx]

Based on scientific evidence accumulated over the last 170 years the proposition that the death of the brain puts an end to conscious experience appears to be false.

Appearances can be deceiving. Care to cite any of this scientific evidence?

How does one measure consciousness except by measuring activity in the brain? If brain death is defined as the irreversible end of all brain activity, then wouldn't that preclude the possibility of determining consciousness?

 

[JohnLeo]

What evidence are you talking about? Can you cite them? You mean Near Death experiences?

Well, yes, near death experiences are one piece of evidence. Investigations into the paranormal by physicists, doctors, researchers, etc are yielding startling results. One of the most powerful pieces of evidence is the Scole experiment which was a rigidly controlled scientific investigation lasting five years in England in the 1990s. There is a great deal of material online concerning this experiment including a report from the Royal Society for Psychical Research; a group that consists largely of skeptical scientists.

 

[camanintx]

One of the most powerful pieces of evidence is the Scole experiment which was a rigidly controlled scientific investigation lasting five years in England in the 1990s.

Experments controlled by the mediums themselves and observed by an organization predisposed to believe in the paranormal does not constitute science.

 

[JohnLeo]

Appearances can be deceiving. Care to cite any of this scientific evidence?

How does one measure consciousness except by measuring activity in the brain? If brain death is defined as the irreversible end of all brain activity, then wouldn't that preclude the possibility of determining consciousness?

If we take the position that the brain is the originator of consciousness and that consciousness is merely a property of matter, then, yes, there is nothing further to say. But the problem for that is that these cases of near death experiences keep popping up; cases where there is no measurable brain function and yet there continues to be a lucid, conscious experience. Yes, the skeptics dismiss this phenomena as nothing but hallucinations, but even an hallucination requires the presence of measurable brain activity. Or at least that's what I'm told by neuroscientists. (Check the remarkable case of Pam Reynolds)

 

[camanintx]

If we take the position that the brain is the originator of consciousness and that consciousness is merely a property of matter, then, yes, there is nothing further to say. But the problem for that is that these cases of near death experiences keep popping up; cases where there is no measurable brain function and yet there continues to be a lucid, conscious experience. Yes, the skeptics dismiss this phenomena as nothing but hallucinations, but even an hallucination requires the presence of measurable brain activity. Or at least that's what I'm told by neuroscientists. (Check the remarkable case of Pam Reynolds)

The problem with these reports is we only have the word of the subject that these experiences happened during the period of no brain activity, and experience tells us these accounts are very unreliable. Have you ever had a dream that incorporated an sound that seemed to last for several minutes only to wake and realize that the sound had just occurred? Our sense of time is very subjective and even more so when we are unconscious.

Since there is no known way to measure consciousness except through brain activity, how can there be any scientific evidence supporting NDE's?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

how do you accept/deny a scripture ?, I'm talking about
books claimed to be inspired or written by God.

I saw many threads in the forum debating on the truth
of a scripture, everyone believe that the scripture he/she

believe in is from God or by people inspired by God.

we all agree on that the holy book or text is the heart of
any religion. without a holy text , the religion will sure die.

but how can we trust a scripture , how can we say that the
old testament, the new testament ,or the Koran to be the

word of God?

what is the criteria through which I accept/ deny a scripture?

let's start with me, my draft set of constraints to accept a
scripture as the word of God:

1- didn't , doesn't and will not conflict with any scientific
or historical fact
2- doesn't contain any scientific , historical inconsistencies
3- set a group of morals which keep human safe , and satisfied as
a person and society
4- contains a set of evidences of it's divine source
5- doesn't conflict with human nature , human physical ,
Emotional , and mental desires besides the spiritual ones ,
but tolerate them

what do you think?

In my view our Scriptures are from God for the following reasons:

1. Both Baha'u'llah and the Bab were not clergy and didn't have any significant religious studies, yet they produced hundereds of volumes of Scriptures, while being in prison and excile.
2. The scriptures are infallible, in a sense that they cannot be repudiated.
3. They fulfill all the signs regarding the Prophecies of the Previous Religions.
4. They have teachings that are meant for this Age, and anyone who is not biased would agree on this.

 

[heretic]

Faith make it true for you.

There is no universal proof of "Truth"

faith is subjective , depends on person's powers , desires , and weaknesses.

I think there's a universal proof of truth , but requires search

 

[JohnLeo]

The problem with these reports is we only have the word of the subject that these experiences happened during the period of no brain activity, and experience tells us these accounts are very unreliable. Have you ever had a dream that incorporated an sound that seemed to last for several minutes only to wake and realize that the sound had just occurred? Our sense of time is very subjective and even more so when we are unconscious.
Well, actually, we have the word of cardiologists, neurologists and nurses who attended these people. We have people with no heartbeat, no respiration and no measurable brain function who later are able to report accurately what has been done to them. In some cases such people are revived and able to report on things occurring at a distance beyond the range of the five senses which are inoperative anyway. There is evem one or two cases of persons blind from birth who report being able to see what is being done to them. Of course one may take the position that there's some vast conspiracy in the medical community to fabricate these things, but that seems like the height of paranoia.