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WHAT IS YOUR PHILOSOPHICAL WORLD VIEW (A TEST)

Liu

Well-Known Member
Actually, that's what it means in the US, too, at least in the popular interpretations. Specifically, here left is considered use of government force in the regulation of the economy, meaning regulations on business and other large organizations, while the right wants freedom for businesses to do as they will in an unfettered free market...(except for the fetters on recreational drugs, sexual identification and behavior, etc.)

Socially, the right wants to control private behavior and to criminalize and punitively punish violations (drug use, prostitution, limitations on homosexuals, abortion, gambling etc.) through police action and incarceration, while leftists do not find that a good use of society's resources, and would generally prefer to legalize, or at least decriminalize them.

In overgeneralized summary:
Left: Business can do no right (except in creating jobs and paying taxes), government no wrong;
Right: Business can do no wrong, government no right (except in regulating individual behavior).
Interesting. But it shows how imperfect such classifications are if they change in such a way.

For example, the left gets also associated with identity politics and things like that. I.e. saying that the state should treat people differently depending on their social or ethnic background, gender etc. And with censorship of political opinions from the right.
At the same time, both individual rights (independent from social/ethnic background and gender) and freedom of censorship get associated with the left as well.

So if I say that I'm left-leaning, people will have very different impressions of me. Same if I say I'm right-leaning.

When you said this; 'So, how I answer the question depends on the role I imagine myself to be in.' that surprised me in a good way! You are very honest Liu. In fact your entire post is refreshingly honest. Many of wouldn't admit they would act differently when the setting changed. God bless ~

: { >
Thanks. Actually, my religion's moral system is based on the subjectivity of morality, and about being honest to oneself. It's rare to find such in other religions, so I guess it's not surprising you also don't encounter it often in other people.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Liu said:
Thanks. Actually, my religion's moral system is based on the subjectivity of morality, and about being honest to oneself. It's rare to find such in other religions, so I guess it's not surprising you also don't encounter it often in other people.

I am somewhat familiar with pantheistic satanism, that said I can't fully agree with the comment about 'honesty being rare in other religions'. Not lying is one of the ten commandments. I think the problem is not the religion rather the moral quality of the people practicing it. I have used a Gandhi quote before to illustrate what I mean. Gandhi said; " Oh, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ" Its not only Christians but as I said many of us lol.

; { >
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Economic Left vs Right:
54 - 46
I see a few issues where I am adamantly socialist, but in everything else I am more on the "right" side, and that evens out, which isn't a true portrayal.

Social Liberal vs Conservative:
30 - 70
Yep.

Civil Libertarian vs Authoritarian:
75 - 25
Yep.

Anti vs Statist:
65 - 35
Hahaha. Got to be kidding me.

Anti vs Militarist:
48 - 52
Seems right, military is a mixed bag. It is necessary, but as Master Sun said, "There is no instance of a nation having benefited from prolonged warfare" and Zhuge Liang said "A well governed nation does not arm, [and] a well armed nation [does not go to battle]".
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I am somewhat familiar with pantheistic satanism, that said I can't fully agree with the comment about 'honesty being rare in other religions'. Not lying is one of the ten commandments. I think the problem is not the religion rather the moral quality of the people practicing it. I have used a Gandhi quote before to illustrate what I mean. Gandhi said; " Oh, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ" Its not only Christians but as I said many of us lol.

; { >
To clarify, I wasn't talking about honesty towards others but about honesty towards self.
 
Being leftist and being atheist are quite separate and different things. I could very much be classified as one, but by no means the other, for example.
I wouldn't be an expert on that: I'm neither one.
I do see what's there, though, rather than what I think is there.
No doubt there are many labels that could be inaccurately applied to anyone who can do that.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
I wouldn't be an expert on that: I'm neither one.
I do see what's there, though, rather than what I think is there.
No doubt there are many labels that could be inaccurately applied to anyone who can do that.

Well you certainly seem to be under that impression, but naturally I'm not going to take your word for it.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Economic Left vs Right:
54 - 46
I see a few issues where I am adamantly socialist, but in everything else I am more on the "right" side, and that evens out, which isn't a true portrayal.

Social Liberal vs Conservative:
30 - 70
Yep.

Civil Libertarian vs Authoritarian:
75 - 25
Yep.

Anti vs Statist:
65 - 35
Hahaha. Got to be kidding me.

Anti vs Militarist:
48 - 52
Seems right, military is a mixed bag. It is necessary, but as Master Sun said, "There is no instance of a nation having benefited from prolonged warfare" and Zhuge Liang said "A well governed nation does not arm, [and] a well armed nation [does not go to battle]".

Sun was a brilliant tactician~
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
To clarify, I wasn't talking about honesty towards others but about honesty towards self.

Ok, but I am wondering if you could provide me with an example of a lie a Christian might have about to themselves ?
I have another somewhat related question. I think you are referring to the spiritual realm in your reply but it really doesn't matter because we believe the spiritual or supernatural realm to be as or more real than the material world. But my question is do you consider something like denial* as in addictive behavior is an outright lie to oneself?

Denial is a strange puppy', if you are not familiar with the clinical aspects of denial maybe you could Google it (or ask).

: { >
 
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Liu

Well-Known Member
Ok, but I am wondering if you could provide me with an example of a lie a Christian might have about to themselves ?
I have another somewhat related question. I think you are referring to the spiritual realm in your reply but it really doesn't matter because we believe the spiritual or supernatural realm to be as or more real than the material world. But my question is do you consider something like denial* as in addictive behavior is an outright lie to oneself?

Denial is a strange puppy', if you are not familiar with the clinical aspects of denial maybe you could Google it (or ask).

: { >
I'm not too familiar with denial in the context of addictive behaviour but I think I understand well enough what you refer to to agree that yes, that would be an example of dishonesty towards self.

As you see from this, lying to oneself often is rather subconscious and not easy to detect by oneself.

It's also not really dependent on religion - but for a more or less Christianity-specific example, a form of self-lie would be the suppression of sexuality in combination with moral justifications.

Another, more general, example of lying to oneself would be to be dishonest to oneself about one's actual goals and values and adopting external goals and values from one's surroundings instead.

LHP-religions (and I was referring to them in general, not to my own version of them alone) have self-improvement as basically spiritual goal, and therefore self-psychology, shadow-work or however you may call it is encouraged.
In combination with the aforementioned amorality, that necessarily leads to at least a tad more self-honesty.

Where do you think I'm referring to a supernatual realm?
I'm agnostic regarding the existence of spirits, but even if they exist I wouldn't assume them to be supernatural, but rather that all of existence is the same kind of natural.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I'm not too familiar with denial in the context of addictive behaviour but I think I understand well enough what you refer to to agree that yes, that would be an example of dishonesty towards self.

I work with recovering addicts so I know about denial. Denial is the king of liars and the strangest part is that even tho' intellectually one knows they are lying to themselves, the primitive self somehow believes the lie. It's kind of like 'love is blind', its the same process.

As you see from this, lying to oneself often is rather subconscious and not easy to detect by oneself. It's also not really dependent on religion - but for a more or less Christianity-specific example, a form of self-lie would be the suppression of sexuality in combination with moral justifications.

For the 'everyday christian' sex within a marriage* is encouraged and is seen as a great thing! The only way I could agree with you would be in the case of some Priests who take the 'total abstinence' concept to sometimes unhealthy, even criminal levels. I don't think I understand what you mean by a 'moral justification'. Of course we all know the stereotypical image of a christian looking down their noses at lesser moral beings. But those 'nose looker Christians' did not get their sexual morals from the bible. Christianity in general has been misrepresented in this area for many reasons. But it's a wrong view. For example the 'Song of Solomon' in the bible is about 'extravagant lovemaking, male and female oral sex, yearning and searching and hiding and finding, all between two unmarried people, one dark-skinned, and one light.' ** The Song of Sol. is one of many examples of Gods encouragement of us to enjoy sex and our bodies. So I can not agree with your critique.

Another, more general, example of lying to oneself would be to be dishonest to oneself about one's actual goals and values and adopting external goals and values from one's surroundings instead.

If I understand you correctly I believe in most cases there is no dishonesty. A Christian for example may forgo a easy comfortable life in exchange for working with the poor, but these are sacrifices and are like putting money in the spiritual bank to be redeemed at a later, hopefully much later date (after death) ! So I think its a choice Liu, not some kind of dishonesty. Seeing that you do not believe in spiritual, supernatural or metaphysical events etc may explain why the spiritual or supernatural seems bogus or we religious types placing trust where it will not be redeemed. I am willing to accept the risk that God does not exist, when I consider the alternative. Or maybe I misunderstood you?

LHP-religions (and I was referring to them in general, not to my own version of them alone) have self-improvement as basically spiritual goal, and therefore self-psychology, shadow-work or however you may call it is encouraged.
In combination with the aforementioned amorality, that necessarily leads to at least a tad more self-honesty.

Speaking from a personal position I can't agree in full. For example, say I want to do something that is forbidden by my faith. How could not doing it (even if I wanted to) lead to more self honesty? Ha ha now there are some things I haven't tried yet (1 or 2) but I believe doing them is an issue of personal courage not honesty. Or maybe I am in denial, lol?

Where do you think I'm referring to a supernatural realm?
I'm agnostic regarding the existence of spirits, but even if they exist I wouldn't assume them to be supernatural, but rather that all of existence is the same kind of natural.

In my world this life, this tangible world/universe is nothing really, a flash in the pan. I understand the universe as being a two tiered system, one physical where the laws of physics work just fine and everything is as it seems. The other world i realm, but that is anther thread. I was asking you if you were describing a spiritual issue of self honesty or were you referencing a problem experienced in this world. By your reply I now know you were referencing the tangible world. I apologize for my lack of skill in self expression and English grammar. Its so hard to put some of these things into words. Oh we do have an point of agreement on your last sentence. I think we are getting close to finding evidence of God or the spiritual realm with our science. Many paranormal events are not supernatural, rather they are supernormal imo.

notes

* Most scholars now say that the bible gives reference that sex outside marriage was normal.

** OOpsie Interracial sex? In the bible? Yes the bible was ahead of its time in many cases. What seems prudish or silly now was written in the time before we had antibiotics and the germ theory. So much of scripture was written for practical reasons, like don't eat pork, I would suggest that was because swine has the parasite trichinosis, God knew it but he just forbid pork. Good applied science!

If I mucked up anything or did not understand you please clarify! ~~~

: { >
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Economic Leftist vs. Economic Rightist
65% Economist Leftist
Opposes deprivation and subordination. Supports solidarity and mutual aid.

Social Liberal vs. Social Conservative

59% Social Liberal
Supports tolerance, exploration, and diversity.

Civil Libertarian vs. Civil Authoritarian
69% Civil Libertarian
Supports robust debate, intellectual engagement and free expression.

Antistatist vs. Statist
54% Antistatist
Rejects centralized violence and authority as unnecessary and detrimental.

Anti-Militarist vs. Militarist

65% Anti-Militarist
Opposes the non-defensive use of military force and highly resistant to incurring collateral damage.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Your results are what I imagined you would be Jonathan. When I take those tests or quizzes its easy know by the questions what the results will be. I like thosse tests where ts nearly impossible to know what the results will be.

; { >
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
For the 'everyday christian' sex within a marriage* is encouraged and is seen as a great thing! The only way I could agree with you would be in the case of some Priests who take the 'total abstinence' concept to sometimes unhealthy, even criminal levels. I don't think I understand what you mean by a 'moral justification'. Of course we all know the stereotypical image of a christian looking down their noses at lesser moral beings. But those 'nose looker Christians' did not get their sexual morals from the bible. Christianity in general has been misrepresented in this area for many reasons. But it's a wrong view. For example the 'Song of Solomon' in the bible is about 'extravagant lovemaking, male and female oral sex, yearning and searching and hiding and finding, all between two unmarried people, one dark-skinned, and one light.' ** The Song of Sol. is one of many examples of Gods encouragement of us to enjoy sex and our bodies. So I can not agree with your critique.
Sorry for the late reply.
I think I have to clarify one thing first: I'm not saying that people of other religions like Christianity necessarily lie more to themselves. I'm just saying that LHP-religions (and also some areligious philosophies) seem to me the only ones I encountered so far that actively encourage doing the self-work necessary to become aware of it when one is dishonest.
The example of sexuality was a bad one in that way that there are very many different opinions on it among Christians. That makes the discussion more complicated. Please understand my former comment referring to that kind of Christian who does have such a stereotypical position on it, no matter whether he or she got it from their upbringing or directly from the bible.

If I understand you correctly I believe in most cases there is no dishonesty. A Christian for example may forgo a easy comfortable life in exchange for working with the poor, but these are sacrifices and are like putting money in the spiritual bank to be redeemed at a later, hopefully much later date (after death) ! So I think its a choice Liu, not some kind of dishonesty. Seeing that you do not believe in spiritual, supernatural or metaphysical events etc may explain why the spiritual or supernatural seems bogus or we religious types placing trust where it will not be redeemed. I am willing to accept the risk that God does not exist, when I consider the alternative. Or maybe I misunderstood you?
One dishonesty here would be being too sure about your faith and not questioning it.
But you are very honest in saying that the Christian in your example does the good deeds with the goal of a better life after death. A possible dishonesty here would be if said Christian does those deeds with that goal but lies to him/herself that he or she does them out of true concern for the poor. In most actual cases, true concern and hopes regarding the afterlife will both be motivating factors, but a way of dishonesty would be to lie to oneself which one motivates one more.


Liu said:
LHP-religions (and I was referring to them in general, not to my own version of them alone) have self-improvement as basically spiritual goal, and therefore self-psychology, shadow-work or however you may call it is encouraged.
In combination with the aforementioned amorality, that necessarily leads to at least a tad more self-honesty.
Speaking from a personal position I can't agree in full. For example, say I want to do something that is forbidden by my faith. How could not doing it (even if I wanted to) lead to more self honesty? Ha ha now there are some things I haven't tried yet (1 or 2) but I believe doing them is an issue of personal courage not honesty. Or maybe I am in denial, lol?
Maybe you are xD
I didn't mention doing anything explicitly forbidden by your religion at that point. And I don't really understand how you got to think I'd say not doing it would lead to more self-honesty. If anything, I'd argue for the contrary.

In my world this life, this tangible world/universe is nothing really, a flash in the pan. I understand the universe as being a two tiered system, one physical where the laws of physics work just fine and everything is as it seems. The other world i realm, but that is anther thread. I was asking you if you were describing a spiritual issue of self honesty or were you referencing a problem experienced in this world. By your reply I now know you were referencing the tangible world. I apologize for my lack of skill in self expression and English grammar. Its so hard to put some of these things into words. Oh we do have an point of agreement on your last sentence. I think we are getting close to finding evidence of God or the spiritual realm with our science. Many paranormal events are not supernatural, rather they are supernormal imo.
I was referring to self-honesty as a psychological problem - and the psyche is basically the spiritual plane in my worldview. It's not truly separate from the material plane, though, imo.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Why bother?

Some arbitrary test to understand yourself.

Every waking moment is a test.

A test based upon predetermined prejudices?

I remember a test about so called inherent prejudices. It was utter garbage.

The true test is within yourself.

Even when you recognize you are failing one day after the next.

Are you happy when you wake up?

Are you satisfied with the day before?

Are you looking forward to the next day?

Horse**** political tests.........a distraction.

Personality tests..........a distraction.

Are you satisfied with who you were the day before and willing to be the same when you wake the next day?

I am.

Because I hope the next day will be better than the last day.

Who gives a **** about some percentage take of your political and social beliefs?

No one.

Who cares about how you wake up the next day?

You do.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Sorry for the late reply.
I think I have to clarify one thing first: I'm not saying that people of other religions like Christianity necessarily lie more to themselves. I'm just saying that LHP-religions (and also some areligious philosophies) seem to me the only ones I encountered so far that actively encourage doing the self-work necessary to become aware of it when one is dishonest.

Late is ok, I enjoy discussing this subject with you. Ok thanks for clarifying!

The example of sexuality was a bad one in that way that there are very many different opinions on it among Christians. That makes the discussion more complicated. Please understand my former comment referring to that kind of Christian who does have such a stereotypical position on it, no matter whether he or she got it from their upbringing or directly from the bible.

Ok I understand and agree with you. I have often quoted Gandhi who said something like ' I have no problems with your Jesus, its just that so many Christians are so unlike him'! That is very true, and is why I am not a wealthy evangelistic preacher. Jesus was all about assisting the poor and disadvantaged, he seemed to abhor personal wealth, and definitely did abhor the love of money (greed).

One dishonesty here would be being too sure about your faith and not questioning it.

If you have read any of my threads you would of found that I have always said God certainly exists. I must believe that if I believe my view or reality. Not to believe that god exists while claiming to be a christian would be a most hideous dishonesty! This is why faith is a most treasured and necessary requirement. But faith is an exercise of degrees. One can have only 50% faith in God, not very good, but still a christian. Some religious scholars believe if 100% faith in God could be achieved they would be taken directly to heaven! That said religions, are a man created spin-off from the belief that God exists. So religions that worship a God have a certain degree of fallibility again to be degrees of 100% accuracy. I would change my belief that Christianity is the most accurate religion if the evidence supported it

But you are very honest in saying that the Christian in your example does the good deeds with the goal of a better life after death. A possible dishonesty here would be if said Christian does those deeds with that goal but lies to him/herself that he or she does them out of true concern for the poor. In most actual cases, true concern and hopes regarding the afterlife will both be motivating factors, but a way of dishonesty would be to lie to oneself which one motivates one more.

I agree with you that some Christians may be motivated more by fear of losing their soul or eternal life but they are mistaken. I see nothing wrong with both having compassion for the poor as well as saving ones eternal skin lol! They should not be devious about it tho'. There are piles of scripture that tells Christians they can not achieve Gods grace, or eternal life etc by deeds alone.

Maybe you are xD. I didn't mention doing anything explicitly forbidden by your religion at that point. And I don't really understand how you got to think I'd say not doing it would lead to more self-honesty. If anything, I'd argue for the contrary.

Sorry, I misunderstood you.

I was referring to self-honesty as a psychological problem - and the psyche is basically the spiritual plane in my worldview. It's not truly separate from the material plane, though, imo.

Great I too think in certain pure mental endeavors the material 'blends ' with the spiritual.

Thanks for your reply ~

; {>
 
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