Altfish
Veteran Member
He may have existed, he might not have existed, but if he did exist, he wasn't the son of god. IMHO.I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?
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He may have existed, he might not have existed, but if he did exist, he wasn't the son of god. IMHO.I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?
I did something similar as a Christian. I also rejected hell theology but took it further than you. I eliminated all of the supernaturalism by the same process including devils and sin, but also the idea of an afterlife and a god, and returned to atheism. If there's an afterlife or a god, I'm happy to wait to learn that.OK, but the usual concept of hell has been upturned by a careful study of the Bible. I didn't believe in torture in hell before I believed in God and now that I do believe in God, I learned from my Bible study that the traditional concept of fire and brimstone in a place called hell does not exist anyway.
Here's a nice example of taking a closer look at scripture and then rejecting dogma. The following is from Isaiah 53. Nowhere does it say any of that except that this figure would suffer. These words don't say that the messiah gave his life; it was taken from him. Nowhere does it say that this death absolved mankind of sin or even that that was a thing that needed doing or could be done. And there is no mention of resurrection. Yet this author claims otherwise and then concludes that this is a clear depiction of Jesus. Not to me:“Isaiah 53 is a classic chapter portraying the life, death, and resurrection of Messiah. He would be despised by many (53:3), He would give his life for us and take our sins upon Himself (53:7), He would suffer (53:10) and be resurrected (53:10-12). Many Jewish people, when reading Isaiah 53 for the first time, have thought that these words must be from the New Testament, since they paint such a clear portrait of Yeshua. It is astonishing that these verses are in fact from the Hebrew Bible; they were written by Isaiah over 700 years before Yeshua was born!”
Yes, the first followers of Jesus were Jews - they recognized Jesus as the Messiah but they continued to observe the Jewish Law. After Jesus' death they were probably disappointed because their Messiah candidate failed...Nevertheless, ALL the first followers and believers in Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah were Jewish.
Of course it is. John 3:16 gives half the message. 3:18 gives the rest. It seems quite disingenuous that Christians will ALWAYS quote the first, but NEVER the latter.....That is not the Gospel message of the scriptures.
i have found different ones that have the thought that Jesus is a servant. then when Jesus does not give them what they want then he is not a good servant , unworthy and not real impotent if Jesus is not going to give/do what they want.I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?
Is 53 is in 4 parts. Scholars have long recognized that the 1st 3 are clearly about Israel. It's only the NT authors that want to pretend that all of a sudden, the 4th part is about the Messiah. Again, the Jewish experts disagree. Further, its the fraud of Is 7:14 that most loudly condemns the NT and its pretense that this is even about a virgin birth, much less about the Messiah. And ALL the first followers were Messianic Jews - desperate for the Messiah to show up. It was so bad that in the times before and after Jesus, you couldn't turn a corner in Jerusalem without bumping into a Messiah claimant. These Jews knew the actual attributes of the Messiah - but chose to lie about them instead. Inventing their own 'prophesies' like the spurious Is 7:14 and squeezing Jesus into them long after his death. Ya know, my old bible from the 50's tried to claim that Jesus fulfilled the 'prophesy' of being from 'Nazareth' - by citing a verse from Micah about 'Nazarites'. But here, decades later, they have removed that citation. Why? Perhaps they had a moment of conscience and opted to correct such an obvious error. Or perhaps they just tired of having bible scholars point out that it was NOT a prophesy, NOT Messianic, and not even a very good lie.I agree, there’s no Messiah without the OT. Yes, the Jewish scribes wrote the OT books. That doesn’t mean some, even many Jewish religious leaders missed realizing Jesus Christ fulfilled prophecy. At the time Jesus lived many Jews were looking for a Messiah/political leader to deliver them from the tyranny of the Roman Empire and restore the nation of Israel… though maybe that wasn’t God’s plan or timing, at that point. Nevertheless, ALL the first followers and believers in Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah were Jewish.
“Isaiah 53 is a classic chapter portraying the life, death, and resurrection of Messiah. He would be despised by many (53:3), He would give his life for us and take our sins upon Himself (53:7), He would suffer (53:10) and be resurrected (53:10-12). Many Jewish people, when reading Isaiah 53 for the first time, have thought that these words must be from the New Testament, since they paint such a clear portrait of Yeshua. It is astonishing that these verses are in fact from the Hebrew Bible; they were written by Isaiah over 700 years before Yeshua was born!”
Fulfilled Prophecy as an Evangelistic Tool
God uses many ways to draw people to Himself through His Holy Spirit – and one of these ways is fulfilled prophecy. There are many prophecies in the...www.chosenpeople.com
Note thatFirst Christian writings were by Paul and Gentile Christians. There are no eyewitness accounts. Nothing contemporary from Jerusalem or Galilee.
It is puzzling why someone (with a brain that was given supposedly by God) will be condemned, if he/she didn't believe in Jesus. It is a blatant attempt to blackmail people, especially the uneducated ones who were the vast majority at the time. And the author of John has the audacity to call evil the non believers.Of course it is. John 3:16 gives half the message. 3:18 gives the rest. It seems quite disingenuous that Christians will ALWAYS quote the first, but NEVER the latter.....
Jesus is always a problem to most people the devil wants us to hate him and join the him who I call Satan or Lucifer. He wants to be God. But my god wants to love you and help you threw your journey in life he wants you to download the KJV app and read Proverbs chapter one I'm not a god so I can't do what he can. But the devil already has what he wants your unbelief and your hatred and judgement that's what the devil wants and then after you die he wants your soul because he believes that will give him the power to destroy his creator even though it won't you can't destroy what made you we could kill our own mother's would we? Some people have there's more to this session but how do you feel on my response
I'm still waiting for anyone to prove those people to be liars.Stories written about eyewitnesses is not evidence. Anyone can write a story, but that doesn't mean it is a true story.
Just like a loving parent who cares to guide their child to be a law-abiding citizen,No, that is not true. I know many atheists who never hate or judge. They are loving and caring.
It seems to me that it is the Christians who hate and judge.
Unless someone thinks they're immune to gravity. After all, we're taught now that we can do anything at all if we think we can. No judging!The difference is that walking of a cliff is demonstrably bad for you.
Nobody has to take that on "faith".
If men can become women and become pregnant, and even identify as 6 years old when they're 50, and society must accept it or be labeled as a hater, then why couldn't Jesus have risen from the dead if there were thousands of eyewitnesses saw him and interacted with Him after first seeing him killed?It's just another claim that these number in the thousands.
And also, off course, even if we accept that there were thousands, that still doesn't make it true.
There are thousands of claimed alien abductees. Doesn't mean diddly squat.
You seem to attempt to making an argument from popularity.
100% of people can believe something and still be wrong about it.
I don't think it is because of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings are very good.I'm curious on, why people don't believe Jesus.
Many of those verses you listed have been misinterpreted by the Jewish people.The criteria for Messiah are too many and too harsh. That's why the Jewish people are still waiting for one, who will never come.
Where do you get that the teachings of Jesus are very good if you don't believe what the Bible says about Him and what He taught?I don't think it is because of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings are very good.
I think it is because of the Bible and all that is claimed about Jesus, what Jesus allegedly said and did.
In my opinion, as the Messiah is a Jewish case and hypothesis, they are the best to interpret the requirements. We have seen how badly the gospel authors have misinterpreted "prophecies".Many of those verses you listed have been misinterpreted by the Jewish people.
I believe that the teachings of Jesus are very good, as recorded in the Bible, but I don't believe everything else that the Bible says about Jesus.Where do you get that the teachings of Jesus are very good if you don't believe what the Bible says about Him and what He taught?
How do you decide what's true and what isn't from the same source?I believe that the teachings of Jesus are very good, as recorded in the Bible, but I don't believe everything else that the Bible says about Jesus.